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I had a little play of it and i can't help but agree, this would be a very interesting game to TAS, especially considering how different it is from the original game.
I managed to beat koopa the quick, unassisted! just had to say XD
One thing though, there are 38 stars, but when does the game end? Is there like a big battle at the end, or is it just how fast can you collect these 38 stars?
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Kirkq wrote:
Fun Fact: In Hole Lake you can get the 100% score without stopping except to kill the last crab.
ThMrksman wrote:
Okay, with waterway,
[....]
Also, throwing a bomb while you are in the air (sometimes?) helps you fall faster, test it, it may help, i employed the R edge trick here as well, i don't know if it was neccessary . .
I'm not really sure what you mean by "R edge trick". Am I missing a small technique, or are you just describing something obvious? Also, Dark Prison synced for me on a recent watch, something must've messed up earlier.
Loved the improvements, especially in Hole Lake!
also when i said R edge trick i just meant dropping a bomb as you run off of a platform in order to preserve forward momentum. For when jumping off of a platform is for some reason not as optimal. Not a new trick, if thats what you mean.
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nineko wrote:
Right, so, I heard that Super Mario 64 is a pretty cool game.
(let's bring this thread back on topic, please)
Agreed, and also what Kirkq said, are you sure it wouldn't be possible to get a really quick side BLJ going on one of the earlier steps in the spiral staircase? Or perhaps warp up then do a side BLJ nearer the top. I'm sure we have a few side-bljing experts in the community who would be able to get close to or perhaps even beat the time taken to go through the door normally then straight up.
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adelikat wrote:
You need to read the first post dude. The windows version of mednafen rerecording only runs PCE and NES games. The other platforms have not been successfully ported over (yet).
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moozooh wrote:
Find a file named "cmd.exe" located in WINDOWS/System32 folder, and copy it to Mednafen folder. Double-click the cmd file, type "mednafen" in the command prompt and press enter. You should see something useful.
Alternatively, press Start -> Run -> type "cmd" and press enter, then navigate to the mednafen folder using "cd" command (the disadvantage is that you must do that every time).
I found the cmd.exe file and copied into the folder with mednafen. the cmd.exe opened up fine, i typed mednafen into the command prompt . . and nothing happened.
It looked like this after i had pressed enter:
Microsoft Window [Version 6.0.6001]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Peter\Documents\mednafenrr>mednafen
C:\Users\Peter\Documents\mednafenrr>
Just started another line as if nothing happened . .
and adelikat, i tried using the frontend and even failed at that,
I went File>Loading Files . . then chose the .lnx file i wanted to run, and (you guessed it) nothing happened.
Thanks for your help so far, and any further help is greatly appreciated.
Oh, also I'm using windows vista . .
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adelikat wrote:
Um, because it is a commandline emulator?
Oh.
Forgive me for my utter stupidity/noobishness.
Is there anywhere i can learn more about how to operate a commandline emulator? There is a game i want to test on the Lynx for TASing capability.
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BadPotato wrote:
does luigi is trully faster on snaking than skeleton+egg kart??
Luigi's PG3000 kart is better in general then yoshi's egg kart. Even better would be the ROB-BLS, but that begins locked.
Some other karts are still more preferable for certain courses.
Character choice doesn't actually matter in TAS's, because when TASing you can make use of the PRB (prolonged rocket boost) glitch, which renders your kart effectively weightless.
Hope that helped
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Kirkq wrote:
Completed through Sky Room, 8792 frames compared to ThMrksman's 8960. ((+168))
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/224349005/Kirkq%20Sky%20Room%208792.m64
Secret Room before warp: +28 frames
Secret Room after warp: +21 frames
Sky Room before key card: +43 frames
Sky Room after key card: +23 frames
I accidentally discovered that by clipping off the side of the scrolling corridors, you can jump and have them not affect your jumping speed. This saved a lot of frames early in Sky Room, it is not applicable in Hyper Room to my knowledge (can't clip off the side). ThMrksman's key card grab off the trampoline beat my best attempt so I replicated his. Overall I must say, ThMrksman, your run was very good. Most of my frames are being gained from the TAS Input Plugin and small new tricks, which is expected on a second run through.
Thanks!
Having said that though, i think you'll find yourself able to achieve bigger time gains as your run progresses. I spent a big deal of the rerecords of my run on the first few levels.
I'll admit that the key card grab i did was a bit of a fluke eheh . .
Kirkq wrote:
My general rule from now on will be if I can bomb an enemy at the cost of only 1-2 frames, I will do it. Also, Hole Lake I'm probably just going to sacrifice a few frames and shoot everything for entertainment purposes. Water levels are already boring enough.
I'll post my next update after Nitros probably. I just got home from college and relocated my computer from its usual position at home, so my personal computer won't have internet for a few days. No IRC for a while. =(
In terms of speed/entertainment, 1-2 frames is probably a worthwhile tradeoff, its bomberman hero, after all . .
Just be careful in the water levels, you can get some nasty lag spikes firing too many bombs in ultra-quick succession.
Keep up the great work!
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Well, you certainly did a better job than me, doing a MT in frame advance is a skill that still eludes me. But i would imagine that this would be a good game for TASing once you get the hang of it. Which you did.
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When i first saw the SMB3 movie it was labelled on some website as 'guy beats SMB3 in 11 mins'. I had absolutely no idea. Funny thing is, i didn't feel cheated when i discovered that it was tool-assisted, mainly because i didnt find out until after i had seen the 0-star SM64 run and learnt all about tool assistance.
Besides, i have since discovered that it takes a lot of skill to create movies like that, just different sorts of skills, such as patience, optimisation, and learning how to exploit glitches for their maximum benefit.
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I'm glad that constant triple jumping is faster, its a lot more entertaining to watch!
Just a thought, what happens when you press Left + Right at the same time? or is that how you were hitting the pole at the end of the level backwards?
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very impressive WIP!
Also, i tried redoing Dark Prison and although i found another time saver i would still need to save another 20-30 frames to get onto the back platform in time . . . i'll keep looking at it though, but a different route might have to be utilised, perhaps going for the back platform straight away? Anyway, i'll give it another go next weekend or something.
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I just had a quick play through and changed my mind, to get something that actually looks optimal (as opposed to very fast) would require some very precise stylus work and a brutal number of rerecords. I don't have the time nor skill to pull off a passable quality TAS of this one.
From what i've seen so far, it seems that kirby goes fastest when going through drawn loop-da-loops drawn in such a fashion that kirby just passes straight through them, but still gets a boost. Also tapping kirby every 4 or 5 frames seems to be faster than tapping kirby every alternate frame.
Anyway, if you are after a real challenge/test of your TASing/optimisation abilities, then this is the game for you.
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MUGG wrote:
Here's a small 'bug':
Sometimes, when holding frame advance, the game won't produce any sound. It doesn't bother me at all, but I thought I should report it.
Yea, i've noticed that problem as well. If im holding down frame advance the whole time the sound is fine, but once i let go any further pressing of the frame advance button doesn't bring sound back
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Captain Forehead wrote:
I noticed you did a lot of :P. :P
My favourite smiley!
and to Kirkq:
I'll have another look at Dark Prison then, i'll upload what i think is the optimal route onto youtube or something. I'll also try to have it done shortly, and obviously before you get started on Dark Prison.
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I've had a look at it, but i can't find any 'start recording' option, just stuff like avi capture and save states; how do you make an input recording on it?
EDIT: nevermind, i had the wrong version
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Already a DS TAS? cool
Yes vote from me, felt quite optimised and having played the game a lot i enjoyed watching some of the more difficult sections of the game passed with such ease
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Ferret Warlord wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
Ways to make the game hard to differenciate from a normal speedrun
1) A frame rule, possibly rounding up to a second
2) Delayed actions e.g. pressing a button repeatedly will cause the same actions to happen regardless of how fast you press it
3) Game is entirely pre-determined, so a speedrunner doesn't have to react to any slight variation in events.
4) Jumping does not cause the player to slow down
5) Levels can be completed entirely by holding one direction i.e. right FTW
6) Forced wait for certain automated events e.g. must wait for an elavator to arrive at the same pre-determined time in order to continue
7) Holding buttons can manually skip through texts and cutscenes
8) Falling gravity is weak, with a slow max speed
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So, is anyone able to TAS gamecube games yet? how is the emulator going?
(and can i have a download link to the latest dolphin ver, i can't find one heh)
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Kirkq wrote:
Most progress is good progress. I'm sure you found some things I will miss, so it would be worth my while to observe your WIP. I do plan on starting from scratch though.
(Just edit your post if you want. Add comments to where you think I could improve or if you found any neat movement tricks that haven't been mentioned.)
May as well make a new post:
Latest WIP<----
and now for a running commentary on said WIP:
Firstly, the routes on the levels of world 1 area 1 are pretty tight, but you should be able to get good improvements on them simply by using that TAS input plugin 0.6 instead of just arrow keys, you'll save seconds on optimisation alone.
Sometimes you can drop a bomb on an enemy (pressing R) without losing a frame, experiment and see if you can when convenient as it would be much more entertaining.
For hole lake, it seems that shooting actually slows you down, i still went crazy with firing bombs anyway, up to you how you handle the water levels, but you do need the fire resistance suit, it does save time.
With red cave, it seemed like doing a small jump was the fastest way to gain speed after injury, however its not the fastest way to gain speed after climbing up onto a ledge, might be good to check different things for each of those situations.
On Dragon Road i discovered the old dropping a bomb while falling off of a ledge to preserve momentum trick, see if you can find other uses for that too, and im sure that the route i took for that level wasnt optimal, so aim to beat it by at least a second or two :p (there may be a few frames to save with the boss as well, i didnt experiment with its invulnerability for long)
You handled Nitros better than me if i recall correctly, so ill leave those fights all to you :p
Early jumps in Great Rock were poorly executed, the later ones might be hard to emulate, but see how you go, you shouldn't have to kill any of those fireball spewing things.
In Fog Route, you will have to jump to get between the two bombs after touching the remote, rest is straightforward, again im sure it can be better optimised.
You can't fall off of the course after killing Endol or Bolban have fun with that :p
World 2:
Groog hills is one spot where it will be worth losing one bar of health (well duh), try and land the jump into the water early, because you can't get into the exit until after bomberman has recovered from taking damage.
In Bubble Hole, you'll get to manipulate the bubbles' movement, i found that slightly changing the direction Bomberman travels in seems to change it, prehaps something more time-friendly like jumping will do the same.
Erars lake: *yawn*, and a bit more luck manipulation
Okay, with waterway, you'll have to experiment a lot with the first jump into the water, see how you go, my run was not optimal there, perhaps if you manage better you might be able to jump right over the enemy waiting for you at the end of it.
Also, throwing a bomb while you are in the air (sometimes?) helps you fall faster, test it, it may help, i employed the R edge trick here as well, i don't know if it was neccessary . .
I hated the boss on Rock and Road, just had to mention that :p so hard to optimise . .
There might be a faster way to fall off of the first ledge in water pool (mabye throwing a bomb?)
I was really happy with how Warp Room turned out, see if you can beat it :p
The second crystal in Dark Prison can be collected much faster, just jump up straight away for it and jump again onto the next platform, instead of acting like an idiot and trying to do both in one jump. Then with the time you've saved, you shoud be able to jump onto the moving platform from the main spiralling platform and thus collect the third crystal much faster, saving several seconds.
Well, thats all i can think of for now, good luck!