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Thinking about it again, "Miscellaneous" sounds a bit too vague, as it could refer to both the Moons and the Playground movies... So yeah, Alternative seem to work best to me.
feos wrote:
adelikat wrote:
I'm very convinced that publication classes (formerly known as tiers) should be redone as follows:
Stars becomes a flag and then you just have 2 classes:
Standard
Alternative Goals
And I'm very convinced it needs to be "Alternative Goals", as it is clear what it is, without carrying any stigma about being a lesser class of publications.
Feels natural to also rename Standard to Standard Goals then. Even tho I still dislike that those are several words, because it makes it more annoying to repeatedly mention in judgment notes and threads as I use to do.
Maybe we should use add the "Goals" part only the home page, to list the recent publications for the separate classes, similarly on how we used to have two publication lists for Vault and Moons on the old site home page.
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All right, I think it's about time to continue this discussion. I think it's very important, because there are still misconceptions about how Moons stopped being a sort of honorific, and in my opinion the best way to fix this is by changing its name to something more appropriate to its new function.
Before I dive in, I want to point out that the names I've suggested before did include the word "Goals" just as an implied word, because each Class is basically a group of movie goals. In the practice I think that each Class should be called with a single word.
So, let's sum up the names that have been suggested so far:
Additional
Exotic
Unconventional
Atypical
Miscellaneous
Showcase
Beside the name, we'll also need to replace the Moons icon with something different, in order to completely separate it from its past nature. My suggestion is to use the note block from SMW, because in my opinion it suggests the idea of "creativity" of the goal. Also, it comes from the same game from which the Moons and Stars icons come from!
DrD2k9 wrote:
TL:DR We need to pick a name that identifies the class as non-standard goals, but that name needs to be such that it doesn't make the class sound like a higher tier. We need to be careful that the Standard class doesn't get looked at negatively (or less positively) because of what we choose to rename the current Moon class.
I agree. Thinking about it again, Showcase could lead back to the entertainment stigma, which is something that we really want to avoid. For this reason, my preference falls back again to Miscellaneous (or Miscellanea).
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Congratulations for your first accepted submission, M1D! Your TASing improved a lot from when you started, it was good to follow your progress! I'm looking forward to see your next work. 🙂
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feos wrote:
Is easiest password actually the fastest known password?
It's the fastest one I could find. Maybe someone could do better, with some more in depth understanding of the game code. Either way, it's not gonna be easy to improve.
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I also agree with the two rules proposed in the first post. However, there is still a little matter that needs to be sorted out...
#7485: ThunderAxe31's GB Rolan's Curse "password, game end glitch" in 04:04.80#6092: ThunderAxe31's GB Rolan's Curse "hardest password, game end glitch" in 04:36.89
Should one of these be accepted? Which one? Maybe both of them? Maybe for different classes?
My idea is accepting "easiest password" for Standard because it's the fastest, and accepting "hardest password" for Moons because it's more about being fancy with a self-imposed challenge (maybe it doesn't meet the Moons entertainment requirement, but I have a major "improvement" in the works, stay tuned 😉)
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I have an improvement movie for this submission: User movie #637874423713011500
Of which 6 frames where saved due to better "optimization", and 14 were lost due to setting GBA mode for console verification.
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However the score is irrelevant here, and there's no point in encoding how the times maxes out.
Well, doesn't the encode need to include proof that the challenge was actually exausted? When you judged the movie, you had to make sure that the player didn't die after stopping inputs. After all, even if there are no enemy spawn zones near the boat, an enemy could still theoretically glitch out their physics and miraculously kill the player later.
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I have a different idea: removing Rejection altogether and instead use Cancellation for the purpose. Authors would still able to cancel or uncancel their submission, however the senior judges may be able to lock a submission if they deem that an author isn't giving proper arguments against a verdict. Just like moderators lock a thread when the discussion stops being constructive.
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TrueSnokido, when editing the submission, please check the option "Minor Edit" in the bottom right, before hitting "Update" button. That way, there won't be bot notifications broadcasted in the Discord server for the edits.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
How do you calculate the differences? How does X% difference affect you as a viewer? Why is there a line where two games which is "the same" according to the staff is allowed to be coexist under a different class?
We consider stuff like these:
Different game mechanics featured (playable character, weapons used, level sets, etc.)
Special self-imposed goals (don't use X weapon or Y button)
Different overall route or glitches showcased.
Note that the "50" number is just indicative. The edge cases are considered on a case-to-case basis, of course.
As for the reason why, is because we want to promote movie diversity as much as possible. Otherwise casual viewers will lose interest. This is one of the main reasons why creating Playground was necessary: we could not simply start accepting whatever redundant movies in the already existing publication system.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
If I understand what the staff wants, they want to make the "common" ROM version to be featured while the other uncommon ROM version to be exist under a different name. Why? Why is this a desired thing?
Nope, that's not it. We don't look at how much a ROM is "common". It's more a matter of autenticy: regional conversions are considered less faithful to the original intent of the game developers. However, I have to acknowledge that this policy is very old, and it could be a good idea to discuss possible changes. After all, we already allow picking obscure game revisions just for the sake of abusing specific glitches that were introduced or patched out later.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding how does the original Nintendo developers creation of the same game released in different places which might includes different code/environment that results in different time of completion affects a TASer's choice of ROM to be called as whatever (currently Playground) while the other one is simple what it is?
If two games use different framerate, and the game engine was adjusted in order to be kinda similar to the original version, then it becomes impossible to compare two runs and decide which one if faster. So we have to either accept both as separate publications, or keep just one of them published.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
edit: forgot to write my decision. If I would be a judge, I would accept NTSC SMB (one if not the most famous TAS of this site) and PAL SMB as two different TAS and NTSC only obsoletes NTSC while PAL only obsoletes PAL. No need to make different tiers/class for this TAS.
Sorry, that's not how our judging system works. When making a judgement that would set a new precedent, a judge should first consult with the other judges, and get to a verdict only after that the whole judges team is in complete agreement. Until that, we keep discussing every possible approach or rule update that could solve any doubt. That's why some judgements may take months. We don't do stuff like giving absolute decision rights to the judge who claimed a submission first. And we don't simply shut down a judge that disagrees to a decision, either.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
By the way, there is a game I played about 15 years ago or so, a space vertical scroller, for NES probably, in which at some point you have to fight a face which is immune to any attacks and you die all of a sudden for apparently no reason if you don't keep moving. The boss dies by himself if you keep yourself alive for enough time.
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Don't think too hard about it, we can always replace a the movie file of a submission for you, without problems. Stay easy ✌
It would be an issue if the new movie file required major extra work for the author, or if it resulted in a completely different viewing experience for the audience, but since we're talking about just 11 frames here, it's barely worth mentioning.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
What does this TAS does to call it a playground? Isn't this is just a PAL TAS?
First off, Playground isn't a tier, but a class. And the reason why this movie is now in Playground is because it's not acceptable for the movie rules.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Edit: personal opinion as NOT a staff member: PAL TASes of games with different mechanics should be handled the same way as a different game, not a different movie tier. For example NES Rygar should have both while some other might not for example NES Dragon's Lair and flat out same games with fewer FPS rejected as it only has advantages of being slower.
This submission was, in fact, "handled the same way as a different game". In order to be published as a separate branch, a movie needs to feature at least 50% unique gameplay contents (except for any% vs 100%). And when we have to choose between NTSC and PAL version, we prefer to pick the first one that was produced. This is because regional TV format requires for a game engine to undergo program modifications, which results more or less unfaithful to how the game was originally designed. So in the case of SMB, the NTSC is preferred over PAL for a matter of authenticity, even though the PAL version resulted in a (slightly) faster movie.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Yeah I know it. What I don't know is what the hell is playground tier is if this TAS is the first one to be recognized as such.
Beside what GMP noted, Playground is designed to expand the publication space for featuring movies that are very unorthodox and niche.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Like why does it valued as "demo" or "showcase" when it's a legitimate different gameplay experience above simply having a different FPS.
"legitimate different gameplay experience" does it surely make it sounds notable. But the facts speak differently here:
Link to video
Moons icon with something different, in order to completely separate it from its past nature. My suggestion is to use the 
note block from SMW, because in my opinion it suggests the idea of "creativity" of the goal. Also, it comes from the same game from which the Moons and Stars icons come from!
