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I'm... honestly not sure what I just watched.
The DOS Mega Mans were just bad, I've watched videos of them on youtube about this game, and even as a TAS, it's something I really wouldn't want to play/watch a video on (though I was just curious this time). Thanks for making this though, not that it was entertaining, but it was quite interesting (to show had bad it was mind you).
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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5XHX02VE
There is a guy doing this, THOUGH... I'm not sure he has continued on doing so ever since that WIP. Therefore, I guess it can be assumed he stopped. But iirc, the route you would use for the first part would be that one, or something similar.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/SilentHill.html
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZiez6HrZNc
I really don't see a huge improvement over the RTS listed above... But a TAS ~MUST~ be done :P.
-
To: Nuy
You needn't worry about optimization with this game as bad as other 3D games. Why not try and we (as in TASVideos) can try to help the best we can.
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Hutch wrote:
Any progress with this?
Since you deleted your youtube channel, I'll assume not, but just typing this to bump it and make it more likely that you see this.
Why yes, yes this is. I got my old one back here. I'll release a video in a bit, but it isn't much truthfully. I've got school again, so not as simple to constantly do things anymore.
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I figured the glitch was old because I could remember seeing it somewhere but couldn't remember exactly where :P. As bad as it sounds, I'm still doing Glimmer, it looks pretty great right now though, but any help you guys can give would be appreciated, 100%'s aren't easy to do.
Glimmer video up soon enough... Don't know when though. Also Hutch when I said redl I mean re download.
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Hutch wrote:
First is new, second is old - some other guy did it without going on the outside hill.
I wonder if using that glitch on Aquaria towers you could go half inside the wall of each of the towers with the baby seahorses to save time?
Although doesn't it respawn you in the centre at the top of each one?
As I said on skype (although you probably haven't logged in Torn), the ROM I downloaded didn't work, so I'll try again soon, but I just got a 3ds, so I'm having a bit of fun with that atm :)
Yeah first is new to me afaik, maybe new in general :P.. Second is old, and obvious :D ... According to the guy of the video, the game doesn't check to see if you've done all of baby seahorse towers, so you could just do #6 and get the orb. As for respawning, not sure I'll check tomorrow (it's 5:15 AM for me atm, kinda too tired to check). [lie]Torn always checks his skype[/lie]. You should redl when you can :D, enjoy the 3Ds, you get Zelda 3D??
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lapogne36 wrote:
I really don't see how to skip climbing in Sunny Beach since there is no way to swim in the air in this level (or maybe you have an idea how to) and the ladder is just too high to reach it with double jump. Our last hope is a proxy jump, but it's a very situational glitch (maybe we can make one with a turtle ?).
About Summer Forest, the route should be :
Colossus (get all gems in the way)
Purchase swiming
Hunter's orb
Gliding to the other orb
Swiming in the air (the one that Hutch show)
Crush
All Autumn Plains levels up to Magma Cone (speak with Professor so he will open the door) and purchase climbing (so there should be Icy Speedway and Shady Oasis left)
Return to Summer Forest
Idol Springs
Hurricos
Sunny Beach
Speedway
Aquaria Towers
Go to Autumn Plains (since you speak with Professor, it will send you at the Gulp door)
Icy Speedway
The 2 Autumn Plains orb (suicide after that)
Shady Oasis
Gulp
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*Note before reading* This won't help corrupted TAS's made for publication, sorry :( ... It's mostly for things like showcasing a point, or a playthrough/walkthrough, etc on YouTube.. I myself use PSXJin for playthroughs so I don't have to have a sloppy movie (like videos that constantly reload save states to do something, it looks so sloppy and I hate it xD), mainly because I use save states to come back to where I was after I leave :p. Anyway...
This problems exist with both Svn0 and Svn715 of v2.0.2 of PSXJin
I came across this problem in PSXJin a few hours ago, and had actually found it catastrophic, though about 20 minutes ago found a solution (so that's good). Anyway, this won't affect most movies because as far as I know, it only affects extremely long (5+ hour) movies... Like FF7 and FF8.
If recording a movie of this length, if you accidentally (or possibly intentionally if you're not sure of what you're doing) click File -> Recent -> any thing in this list (basically you're last few played games), it will, as what it looks like, overwrite the movie file leaving you with a movie that is 1 frame in length (note: this also does the same for any movie file), though unlike a movie that is 5 minutes in length, and a movie that is 8 hours in length (my tid bit), the movie that is 5 minutes in length can have a save state reload it's data, and since 5 minutes isn't that long, it will probably instantly restore it. However, in the sense that your movie is 8 hours in length, if you do the whole recent games thing, and try to reload a movie, it will, bluntly stated, freeze the emulator because it's overloaded with all of your input.
If you try to click the X button to close the emulator, you'll get the whole "this program isn't responding", and if you try to close the process/tree by the task manager, it won't close. So, say that you let it do this, say you're at frame 1,567,432 (just a random number), it will take about 5-12 minutes to load it, and when it does you will no longer be recording the movie (I guess it crashes the movie recording?), and you'll just be in the regular game outside of the movie, you will also have no sound, period... I suggest here you save the game (via save state, and via the in game saves, also make sure you're saving to an actual memory card, not a temp one :p). Then make a new movie, using the same game (obviously), and be sure to have it from "Start from power on + current memory cards".. Then config -> memory cards, and make sure you're using mcd001.mcr in the first slot. Reload the save via the in game loader, and problem solved.
I guess the whole reason I'm bringing it up is if the devs of Jin could possible add a safe fix for this? It'd be a shame if it was a TAS doing this, all that hard work for nothing and all :'(.
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Hutch wrote:
I partly understood that wall of text ;)
I have a little bit of a route for Summer Forest - after getting Hunter's orb, then gliding over to the other orb, like you discussed a year ago, you can go through the cave backwards getting the gems, and once out, use this swimming glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bhvwD0I1Ac
Which could make some gem collecting a bit easier before entering the next level, and/or possibly be used to get orb above sunny beach and hurricos without having to climb (even with climb while backtracking to Sunny Beach would be quite slow?)
Also, I have a possible idea to skip climbing in Sunny Beach - I'm downloading a NTSC-U ROM right now, just checking you're using NTSC-U too?
Yeah I'm using NTSC-U ... It isn't necessary to have climb to get the "you need climb here without glitches" orb :p, but since I/we would have to go back to that area, it makes it much easier. Also we're aware of that glitch :). As for if it has a major use, still yet to be decided... It could probably get a few gems on the way , but a downside would be postponing Idol Springs... That probably isn't a big deal though as the portal coming back to Summer Forest is right beside of Idol Springs. Not sure I might put it to use in getting the gems in the room where you if you fall down, hunter appears explaining how to get over to the other side. Depends on testing, but just guessing, if it does save time, I think it's way too small to put alot of faith in it, because where PSXJin doesn't have a sturdy way of movie editing, and with the way the route is, it'd be a shame to redo so much... Such as:
Idol Springs 100%
Battle Crush
Crystal Glacier 100%
Skelos Badlands 100%
Purchase Climb
Return to Summer Forest
Though in advance, I don't think it's possible to do the swimming in air glitch in Sunny Beach... But if you found a way that'd be great :p.
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lapogne36 wrote:
I can help you if you want for the route planing.
Also about your video, I already see the same thing a long time ago on youtube, but I was not able to find it again.
Thanks that would really be appreciated. I figured it was already found but I couldn't find a video of it, that's why I didn't say it was new or something :P ... I'm currently at 6835 rerecords and I'm not even 2 minutes into the actual playing, so it'll take a while before I even finish Glimmer up.
Also, I was thinking for summer forest to postpone collection a few gems until after we were to come back from Autumn Plains. As for a small (undetailed) explanation it'd be like (say I'm just now coming out of Glimmer) get the gems that are to the right of Spyro and circle around. I'm pretty sure that it'd be faster to charge down the steps and get all of the gems in the room where if you fail hunter shows up, and then to get back up use the whirlwind. As you exit that room, ignore the gem on the left (should be a red gem) because we can get that coming back from Autumn Plains. It'd be good to get all gems except for that one in this area, as for the gems in the water, I'll have to see a route for it to be split up with since we're going there 2 times. As for the rest of the gems, they'll be split up going along with the route you proposed like a year ago.
I think the next few months will be spent on just this bit, so nothing to worry about on the Winter Tundra until I/we get there.
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I've definitely saved time over Glimmer now. I also was wondering if anyone would help volunteer to help me with the route planning or actual playing? Improving what I have an what not, this run is going to take quite a while to do just by myself. As for the overall route plan, it's pretty solid in my opinion to Winter Tundra, but I mean like each state, like "Glimmer's route" or "Idle Springs route" ... Something of that nature :p.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U2oZIOkTBw
Note on the above: Was this really never found??? It seems rather obvious, and it saves coming back to this part of Glimmer iirc. That part was just a demonstration too, say in the real TAS: I'd have done hit the first 2 lizards and got most of the gems down in the area. I'll figure out a good path to use for that in the end. That's a bit I had on Glimmer, and I'm quite sure (like 99% here) it'd save time by not having to revisit that area.. And when I hit the final lizard, getting the orb, instead of going to that area, it'd be alot simpler to just hit straight forward for the talisman and then finish the level.
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Hutch wrote:
"TASVideos is always down when I need it xD (like everyday).... If you're talking about where I triple jump @ 0:24 ... I had trouble finding it possible to hit the enemy, and hit both the barrels without doing so. I just barely hit both the enemy and barrels hit boxes at the same time (and was within 1-5 frame distance of it's hit box, I think less than 3 but can't remember off the top of my head). As for gliding at the end: Glide speed = 25, charge jump in air = 24 :p."
Using TASVideos to reply now as it's easier :)
About the jumping, I was more meaning the large jumps between the small islands rather than the small jump for the enemy, and I know that the gliding at the end is quicker, I changed to that in my WIP after noticing it in Lapogne's run.
"Also continuing from what I said down there... This isn't like the final tid bit, I'mma do multiple ones of just this 32 second part to completely frame whore it... But I wanted to basically get the hype out big time in advance before I put up the WIPs I'll have (just like Grunz did, though Zelda vs Spyro, I'm sure Zelda has a waybigger audience :p)"
I'm glad that that teaser isn't going in the final run, I was feeling it didn't look very optimised :P
I also hope that this can grab a lot of attention, as when I contemplate doing my Spyro 3 TAS, one of my problems getting the motivation to continue it is the lack of support that unfortunately isn't there for that game :D
Yeah haha, it's definitely not optimized considering I made it in about 10 minutes. But the thing I'm currently working on (just what is shown in that video), I've spent roughly 2 hours trying to get perfect. >.>
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AjAX wrote:
Lag control?
And yes it is faster since screen transition takes about 7-9 frames approx (I should check that), plus 2,3 frames of walking in the next image frames and the button mashing to open the door = around 15 frames shaved!
EDIT: Yeah I might just let you do the real movie in the end, like I said I did not plan on submitting this run, it's a personal pleasure, since I wanted to do Real Time run of DC 1 and 2 6 months ago (I Played those games in rotation 2 times a day during 1 full months back then ahahha) so yeah, I'm eager to see how much seconds you will save in the end anyway :)
Uhm, Lag Control is controlling lag, things that make the run slower :p. By the way, I think we all can agree the DC 1's TAS will be alot like the speedruns of it since there isn't much room for major improvements. Though DC2 will be alot better, since the money system thing is involved ;]. I'm guessing (and guessing big) that if this type of thing is possible on more than just the door, that'd save alot of seconds :D (more than just frames here!!!!) ... Haha yeah I'm not that excited about it, but I'm excited that that's a good possibility. Also man, if you don't mind, in the end could you upload the final movie file for me (and maybe others?), it'd help out on the comparing part. I'll probably start on finding the mistakes then, so it's not like you have to redo all of this, it's just like showing potential it has :p, and yeah I'll do the full run with arukAdo if he's still game (*cough* he'd better be... Kidding :D).
Nice find, though does that make it any faster? (Like lag control or something?)
Once again about the mistakes, there isn't any pjm movie editors, but maybe manually doing it through hex would work, though that might also mess up the movie... =\ Maybe someone else could tell you better.
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Mugg, just curious if you've found any use of the Floor 1.5 glitch?
And also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wJ9ie_JVU&NR=1 ... Kazooie said "I tested it. you can get to the second boss early if you can just get top of the jars what are not so high from the ground. That would be great skip :)"... Though had no luck, maybe this could be something to look into with enough testing?
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AjAX wrote:
how much input can I make into one frame to open a door, if I say I was smashing my gamepad like crazy to get it open ASAP, i just don't get it, door sequences and puzzles pass and shits are done using 1% speed, as for the rest well it depends. but you can count on me to not make use of frame advance sorry.
It's simple, say I can open a door at frame x, and with 6% speed, even when smashing a button like crazy, I have a slim chance of opening that door on the first possible frame, where as with frame advance I have a 100% chance. Since we know that if using frame advance properly, you can get it 100% of the time on the first possible frame we'll exclude that. Now saying that you have a slim chance of opening that door on the first possible frame, we could go ahead and add in the many frames in that second (60), and of that 60, say 30 (half) are possible to open said door. A 1 in 30 chance (a 3% chance) of opening it on the correct and fastest possible frame. And if we say that starting from the first possible frame within that second (all 60 frames), a 1 in 60 chance (1.6% chance) of opening it on that. Frame advance massively outnumbers those odds as you can see. Those few frames here and there don't seem like much, but they add up, and quickly, resulting in seconds lost when finished, not to mention other things that could be done on the first possible frame, which could add into minutes, or in a run like FF7 or FF8, hour(s). This has been confirmed due to games that have lots of text, and in some cases, people use Japanese versions of the game because of how fast the text goes across the screen, and obviously because of this sometimes the American and Japanese versions can't be compared.
Simply put, TAS's are made to be as close to perfect as possible, to make people say "Oh my lord, how?!", to stun, amaze, and entertain, they don't have to be ASAP, but in a run like DC, it'd have to be. Speedruns and TAS's are different, because speedruns are done by humans, where TAS's are done by humans, tools, robots, slow down, save states, frame advance, lua scripts, RAM watches, manipulation, and what not. Generally using frame advance doesn't mean things go slow, in this game for example all loading/cutscene you don't have to frame advance them, also if you use fast frame advance its really like doing slow motion. A speedrun can never be 100% perfect, TAS's can be (though don't mean they are), that's why it's necessary to use what you have to make something amazing. Though it's not necessary as you're just showcasing, if you decide to submit anything, use it.
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AjAX wrote:
I seriously don't see the point of playing this game frame by frame, I play at 6% speed now which is like 4 frames per seconds....
Anyway, I wasn't planning to submit this run anyway, like I said I never did a TAS this is a learning curve experience for me :)
WEDIT: That would be cool if you could tell me every mistakes I did, some I may be able to explain why it is done this way and other things I might have completely overlooked, I'm a Real Time Speedrunner after all so I'm not use to this sort of running! Thanks
For the below: tl;dr version:
Frame advance = Good
Slow down = bad
Even though frame by frame can on some games be highly annoying *cough* MediEvil *cough*, some games, like Super Mario World, make frame by frame the way to go, as you can be 100% sure you're perfect on your TAS, as you know you did everything asap. The only reason MediEvil is a bit different is, it adds a aspect that MANY MANY MANY of the TAS's on this site don't even have to worry about, both 3D and a auto movable camera, and at the same time you have free will to change the camera (and they're not predefined camera angles like Super Mario 64). Ofcourse, knowing that, it still didn't give me the right to not use frame by frame recording, so I made the best of it, by using it. However, since most games aren't like it, Dino Crisis being one of them, we can fully get the fastest time possible, without going nuts with every small motion of the camera. So, the point in frame by frame recording is to get to know for sure you're getting everything perfect, though it's not always needed, like if you're running straight, you're going to reach the same point whether in frame advance or not, though this changes when you're about to open a door. Since DC allows us to open doors frames before even reaching it, you can open the door slightly faster with frame advance than without, compared to 6% slowdown speed.
Though I do want to say is, I'll definitely (probably with the help of arukAdo too) improve this for you in the end, so you shouldn't worry on that aspect, you can join in too :p. I'm more of both, I enjoy doing TAS's, and speedruns, but some of my TAS's (on youtube, though I've taken them off) aren't perfect, some are, but that's until I go out and compare to others, to find they are not :p. Unfortunately (I'm still surprised MediEvil was a TAS before it was a speedrun, and if it was a speedrun before a TAS, I've never found it) for me MediEvil had nothing to go by, so I had to do a ton of research with help of a guy on here. But DC has stuff to go by, and something to compare to, which is why TAS's can be much more difficult than what you think they can be, because what you think is the fastest possible, might not be. I know DC is no Super Mario 64 where it has a huge community to completely frame whore it, but it helps to try to get as fast as possible on everything, retry everything more than once, if you find that you've done something faster than everything you've ever done, retry many times to beat it. If you find you can no longer beat it, then take it as that, though be sure that you have tried your hardest, because (even though you said you aren't submitting, say you were) if you were to submit that, and it was accepted, it could be obsoleted by a guy who either found a new route, or who optimized your part that you didn't.
I'd re-watch your movie a few times for things that look like they're kinda bad. I know when I watch MediEvil (it's my only currently real TAS), in the lake level I jump and curve around an enemy, it looks bad, but the reason why I did it was to avoid damage from the fish that jumps up, and avoid hitting the jumping over fish (guess that's what you'd call it)...
Though I'll be sure to tell you everything (like the tiniest thing I find) that can be improved, even if it's a frame >.>, later when I have time to look
~Torn338, writer of extremely long sentences (Y)
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Warp wrote:
Torn338 wrote:
I change my picture alot, so I'm sure someone looking at this years from now, will obviously see what I'm explaining here, would be no where as near as what my avatar will be then. So without further ado, my current picture (now at this time) is this: http://i54.tinypic.com/n324o9_th.gif ...
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AjAX wrote:
EDIT 2: Also he plays on a Playstation 2, and if you didn't know that already, ps2 has a fast loading mode and texture filtering that you can put on ON booting, doors load faster and camera switches faster, that may be what makes you think that he is faster than me.
Those things has been proved at SDA.
For the graphics I use no dithering, maybe that might be your DS problem? (Just a guess). As for the above that I've quoted you, that's not exactly what I mean I mean more like at 3:30 in your WIP 1 where you curve around, instead of turning, then running straight, which is 6-9 frames faster.
Edit: Just a note, for things like that ^, I suggest we just use the current run you're doing right now as a prototype instead of something for submission, as it's best to use frame advance, instead of slow down. Though if you want to submit it before hand, it's no problem, but as there are known improvements already, it might (and probably will) get rejected.
As for the 2nd WIP watching now.
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AjAX wrote:
Ok' I redid and I made it back to HEAD's room now.
It would be nice if somebody could tell me if it's possible to go to a certain Frames without the use of save state so I can record a video, watching the begining all the time is time consuming!
EDIT:
Also, shin's run is 2 min faster than the run on youtube, although it contains death abuses, I shall see what is faster when I get there, SDA forums indicates me that shin die because of some sort of Clock timer rewind, I don't really know about that yet,
This or difficulty adjustment...
EDIT: WIP So far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-mWeArDfM
Now With Sound!
Death abuses are fine... though whenever I die I just go back to the last room I was in, instead of the current one. Care to explain what you mean then xD? Though since a TAS wants the hardest difficulty, we can't use easy, so if Shin is using easy, then we shouldn't count that, though if bits and pieces are faster, that's different. As for the WIP, I put it side by side with LucianoRX's run, and bits and pieces of his is faster than yours, whereas after syncing them back up (such as the first frame you can see an image after opening a door), bits and pieces of your WIP beats his. Which it is possible that lag on my cpu is involved, but I really doubt it. You should try on your side, you always want to be able to beat a speedrun of the game with the tools you have.
And, uhh sadly, I don't think so on fast forwarding to a certain frame... If it has that option, I've not found it. Though here is something you can do:
- Save states 1-4 use for your actual working space of a room.
- Save state #5 use right before you open the door to that room ^ (incase you decide to redo it completely).
- Save state #6-9 use for key points in the movie. I see no need to use any save states (whenever you actually get far into it) before the first DDK device. (I'd actually use SS #6 the frame you can see the menu to insert HEAD)... Be sure to only use these save states when you have "read-only" ticked on. PSXJin has bullet proof recording (AFAIK), so it won't rewrite your work if you accidentally open these with read-only off, though, it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side, and furthermore they're just there so you can skip chunks of the run :p on re-watching.
As for your desync problems, I'm not sure if it's the game, or your emulator settings. I'll try a movie of me playing DC later for like 30 minutes and see if I have a desync. Though considering in my playthrough I'm doing on youtube of FF7, which itself is a long game anyway, I've yet to have a desync in over a million frames (4 hours 50 minutes to be exact), so it's a big possibility the settings you're using. Care to specify everything you're using?
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antd wrote:
i also found a glitch that allows the party to fight a boss twice
this is useful against gi nattak (who is killed by elixir/phoenix down) in order to gain extra EXP in a short amount of time. actually this EXP is needed because i didn't fight the spiders.
the glitch works against any scripted battle
method:
use the menu glitch to remove a random encounter
fight a boss/scripted battle (the battle will repeat)
the downside is that you cannot menu glitch a battle away before fighting a boss (unless you want to fight it twice). so you have to get into a battle and run away before scripted battles. i think the game forgets about the menu glitch if you enter the world map though.
