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Nah, jump cancelled killer bees is definitely better than shot alternating with the shotgun. Switch cancelling the shotgun shots beats shot alternating the shotgun too. Regular shots do ≥ 2x damage of Fireworks shots (which comprise of half the shots in shot alternating). TAS switch cancelling the shotgun should give four shots per second and frees up Trickster to be used.
I retract what I said about Gunslinger's longevity in a TAS. At the start of a TAS run, the dps from shot alternating Ebony & Ivory in mission 1 - 2 definitely makes sense, but not from mission 3 onward.
Whenever there's a good rerecording build for PCSX2, I think I'll give it a shot.
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Six year bump :3
I'm currently playing through DMC3:SE and there's a pretty nifty trick I figured out with the Gunslinger style. With Ebony & Ivory and the Gunslinger style selected, you can alternate between Square and Circle to shoot at an almost uncapped speed. I don't have a copy of PCSX2 with rerecording, so I don't know the specifics.
This also works with the Shotgun but there is a noticeable delay before being able to alternate from fireworks to a regular shot (Two shots must be fired during Fireworks before being able to cancel into a regular shot).
Interestingly, going into devil mode seems to remove that speed limit on Ebony & Ivory when alternating shots (I'm really excellent at tapping and could never notice a cap, unlike with regular dante). It also cuts down the delay on alternating Shotgun shots (Only one Fireworks shot before cancelling in devil mode versus two in regular mode). The other three ranged weapons don't benefit nearly as much as Ebony & Ivory and the Shotgun do however. The shot alternating can also be done with charged shots to really pack a punch.
The shotgun with alternating shots deals really high dps on some bosses and should be the best strategy for at least a few of them after getting them stunned (completely destroys Hell Vangaurd, Angi and Rudra, Heart of Leviathan and the "Jester"). Gunslinger can definitely give Trickster some competition for the style choice in a TAS now.
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There are TASes and then there are runs like this. This run is one of the examples that gets shown off when a guy tells his friends about TASing. There is so much action that is packed in this TAS, you can literally pick a random place in the run and be blown away in just fifteen seconds (even if those first ten seconds consist of level transitioning). It just never gets stale, which is extremely impressive when considering the length of the run.
I loved this TAS and have already watched it twice. Yes vote for any awards this is up for in 11 months.
and I don't even LIKE this game LOL.
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I've got it down to the final hit, which isn't hard to finish or anything (I can play the rest in real time and beat sonicandamy's record, so that's not a problem).
My classes this semester are a lot harder than I thought they would be (Figured I could sneak in an extra two classes for a total of six, bad idea). Once I'm better acclimated to this semester, I'll continue working on it. At least I'm not actually stuck for once lol.
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I couldn't help but wonder what the designers were thinking during the cyclops level. How do you make a right turn and still have the Cyclops infront of you (Obviously it's a background).
I think the levels should be about half the length, but that's not your fault lol. I enjoyed the run a lot, I love the movie. Yes vote.
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Paused wrote:
VanillaCoke wrote:
I'll try optimizing it tomorrow.
Any luck?
Yeah, I'm far enough along now as of last night (Trying to make it entertaining but keeping in a zone is tough lol) that I'm confident in saying that I'll be able to beat sonicandamy's time (but it won't be by a large margin). There's 3 hits to go as of right now and I'll most likely finish it sometime tonight.
1/26
Been slacking, will have it done monday for sure.
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Odongdong wrote:
Actually, there's a obstacle in making co-op TAS. Even though one player can boost by assistance from others, the game does not end unless all player reach the flag. So merely just sending one doesn't have any merits.
But there are some solution to this problem, too. If the stage consists of several levels, connected with pipes, then you can send one player to enter the pipe, because the game force players to warp it. Also, you can control some players to take death on purpose so that you don't have to wait for them(but losing all power-ups they had).
Anyway, it seems that controlling more then one player on this game is terribly hard.
I'm 100% positive that a player touching the flag with 3 other players in their bubble will end the round (I just played 4 player co-op Another Super Mario Bros. in October with friends from high school). It doesn't force the player to pop them out of their bubble before the flag can be lowered. Besides, bubbling is as easy as pressing A.
The only downside to co-op bubbles is that the bubbles have to drift off the side of the screen before the level can end (not the flag lowering though, that'll trigger immediately if the other three players are bubbled). This can be minimized by keeping the bubbles as far to the left (or rarely, right) of the screen as possible when touching the flag.
Players who were bubbled when a stage ended previously will be ready to go when the next level begins, so there's no repercussions to having ended a level in a bubble. Also, I think that having only one player when finishing a level would be beneficial since it would skip three of the four players having to walk into the house to finish the course.
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I found it to be very entertaining, even if it is improvable. Although if you're going to bother improving this run, I'd suggest making it "co-op" for some of the extra shortcuts and optimizations that are only possible with two or more players.
You could have a player throw another player while traveling on a moving ice block and perhaps that'd really get some insane speed. Or maybe a player with a block of ice and on top of that ice is another player holding a block with a player on top. Player 1 throws their block, Player 2 then throws their block a second later, and that would give a stacked speed (So say if the regular block moves at 5, then that block throw from the moving block would move at 10).
You could get the most out of each level having four players, each with a designated power up (one Mini, one Penguin/Ice, one Propellar, and less useful fire). The beauty of a co-op run is the bubble system. More often that not, you won't have to worry about input for the other three players.
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Reworked my list into having six initial zones (left, inner left-high ring, inner left-low ring, same for right zones), but there's still only three post hit zones (left, middle, right). Surprisingly enough, the first end result of a 1+1 produced a 1+1+2 and it managed to sub 1:47 semi-optimized. I don't know if I can shave three and a half seconds off the time, but I'll try optimizing it tomorrow (hits, positioning, boss bobbing). If I'm unable to, then I'm going to assume that there is a 1+1+1 that I'll have to keep fishing for (I've given up on getting ahold of the top 2 TSC LSB runners to confirm anything after trying for a few months on various mediums (TSC, twitter, youtube, even facebook like a creep lol)).
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I'd watched one of the earlier WIPs last year. Congrats on completing the run, there were some really awesome jumps and the commentary annotations are a nice touch. It was pretty darn fast besides.
I remember those annoying commercials they had for this game years ago on CN haha. If they'd marketed it differently, I probably would've picked it up.
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Cruizer wrote:
You being unable to beat the human 'submitted' times has me a bit suspicious. Perhaps after all this is done, you'd be able to do some Boss ILs to obtain the best time from them, to see what else could happen? Outside of story mode of course.
Yeah, that's not a bad idea actually. It could be possible that's there's a larger or different RNG value set outside of story mode.
I've got inspiration again, thanks Cruizer.
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*does best Sonic impression*
Pheeeeew, that was cool!
I don't know what the hell happened with the shell in Tiny, Huge Island but that was hands down my favorite part. Treasure in the Ocean Cave is definitely a close second.
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zwataketa wrote:
Hey heres a link to a tas of night carnival from yours truly. Its not mine, andit doesnt provide the link to a movie file, but perhaps by watching it you could somehow recreate it when you get to that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWo9ApyzuI&sns=em
I appreciate the thought, but that video is 10 seconds slower than the human WR lol. The guy makes plenty of mistakes and doesn't try to increase his speed at all with airdashing or spindashes... He even gets hit lol. I doubt the guy spent more than a half hour producing that or tried to optimize it at all. It's a good idea to research what real time records are out there for any given game if possible. For Sonic Rush, it'd be http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_rush/bosses. It's also a rule that a TAS has to beat all known records :P.
I also appreciate the offer, but optimizing Rush is complicated and time consuming. A lot of times the optimal route is something that is really outside of the box and the only way to brainstorm them is being very familiar with the engine.
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Saw the movie on the midnight showing on the 5th and decided that I was gonna TAS the DS game. Been working on this for a week and decided to show what I've got. The game has been really boring to work on. Optimizing Felix's wall jump or double jump sections are a headache. The sections using Ralph are pretty fun though since he move a lot faster than Felix.
Link to video
Speed info
Felix - 22 (max)
Ralph - 28 (walking)
Ralph charging - 36
Ralph jumping out of a charge - 48
After staying in the air for awhile with a speed of 48, it will slowly decay down to 28. Landing brings speed down by 8 and will decrease it by 5 every two frames (game runs at 30 fps) until it reaches 28. However, by jumping the frame Ralph lands, you can keep a little bit of speed (33). The charge jump is always in a low arc, which can't be helped. This makes it not worth using as an exclusive means of traveling since the start-up for a charge takes a long time (about half a second, 15 frames).
Felix's Jump and wall jump carries him upward for 15 frames and his double jump bring him up for another 8 frames. A neat trick is using the double jump to go the complete opposite way Felix is traveling in a frame. His double jump mechanic is really odd and I can't quite figure out why it works on most walls, but not on a few (the last platform on the first level for example doesn't allow double jumping or ledge grabbing, which would allow skipping the Ralph ladder/ceiling climbing section).
Grabbing ledges works pretty similar to smash brothers in that you have to be falling before you can grab them. By attack in the air, all upward momentum is lost and the edge can be grabbed quicker. However, grabbing a ledge is almost always the slower route.
Funny enough, the DS version and the Wii version play exactly the same as each other. For a portable game, it's pretty good, but for a console game it definitely leaves someone desiring more.
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Decided to go back to 0.9.8 cause I just can't beat the WR for LSB on 0.9.7 and it won't sync. I know the settings are correct, but I don't think I ever played the .dsm back from the beginning after beating the boss. Maybe I screwed up with savestates somewhere. The starting routine is different and manipulating the RNG doesn't help since the zones of the boss attack/sonic's position will definitely give a different result. I know that I poked a few RAM addresses for testing (hits to go included) and perhaps I mistakenly used one of those savestates back at the time.
EDIT - Actually, I know I didn't play the .dsm back from the beginning. I could never get the fast forward to work in 0.9.8 and I always used a specific set of savestates for skipping to different parts of the run for that reason.
For the sake of the run, I'm going to ignore beating the boss times. I can't reach anyone (sonicandamy and someone else I can't remember off the top of my head) who have really low times on TSC to find out what their strategy is. I'll get the times as low as I possibly can if I can't beat the WRs in the boss fights for sure. Perhaps in the future someone else who runs and can take a look at the code in this game will figure them out. However, I officially give up on trying to best the times for LSB from TSC, continuing the run onward.
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I'll try to fix MUGG's .dsm on Saturday when I get home from class and then I'll PM it to both you (zwata) and him if that's what MUGG desires.
If you don't hear anything from me by Sunday, it's cause the hurricane got me/my electricity/home/state/livelihood.
