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Just finished optimizing two different routes for traveling through a multi-railed section. I'm happy that the crazier of the two is faster (by only 3 frames) since it looks so ridiculous. It requires a lot of setup and it even overshoots the upper rail, so I have to maneuver back just to land on it.
I do have an idea that alters the faster route, but I wanted to get these two different routes optimized tonight and call it quits.
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Not sure what to say that would appropriately do justice to this run. It's not as flashy or head-scratch inducing as some of the other runs on this site. However, I enjoyed it just as much as those. It's definitely the longest TAS I've ever watched in one sitting. Great job on this run theenglishman.
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Came across a glitch at the result of another glitch, made me laugh so I took I dumped a video of it.
Link to video
Not sure how useful this glitch is going to be anyways and I don't really understand it yet. Somehow landing on a booster pad with x-velocity above 3840*16 and boosting and sliding all on the same frame results in having undecayed x-velocity. Unfortunately the game breaks if you don't do anything to exit the glitch when entering a loop... and results in this video.
Also, sonic is technically running backwards in this clip.
EDIT
I think it's just an effect of the booster. Boosting is required, as well as holding forward the frame of landing on the booster.. at least in the scenario I'm in now. Sliding isn't necessary though. I don't know of any other applications of this in the run since getting x-velocity over 3840*16 is rare, but even more so near a booster pad. There is one occurrence in TR1, but boost isn't available yet lol.
EDIT Again (Sorry IRC lulz)
I think it might be pretty useful in SR or SRA however since getting over 3840*16 is always happening. It won't be useful for straight paths since backwards airdashing is faster, but something like inclined slopes definitely since x-velocity stays constant regardless of slope until it is "too steep", i.e.; a loop, it results in being stuck.
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itsPersonnal wrote:
I'll put up public WIP on my channel and see how far I am ahead of mrspeedrun's "TAS"
While I've completed Prime a couple times, I'm unaware of the finer points of the game. That being said though, his WIP looked really optimized to me. But I like your attitude xD.
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So far in SC1 I've saved 45 frames at 288 frames in. Improvements come from:
A) Actually using booster's slowed decay at the beginning of the level (I discovered it for myself in my old WIP at the end of this very level)
B) Only staying on the rails long enough to hit boosters and get a x-velo boost from jumping as soon as the rail curves.
C) Keeping speed stored when hitting first rail
D) Not using homing attack to get Rocket (The most important)
Homing attack "was" used because the Rocket is too low to drop to the ground and jump back out (It's setup so you are forced to use the Rocket you just got to exit the pit).
This time around, I found and utilized a trick to hit a capsule with boost while in mid-air to gain another mid-air boost in SM1. This is important here because breaking that capsule with boost give a small boost of negative y-velo (going upward). This idea worked (baaaaaarely) and I saved about 20 frames from just that alone (With homing attack, you're unable to move after hitting something until almost beginning to fall back down)..... I'll fix this last paragraph so it makes sense tomorrow, I'm in a hurry atm lol.
EDIT
Wanted to do a little bit more before bed. 91 frames faster so far at frame 731 of SC1. Relying on Rocket to go up instead of the launcher should be faster in the next section, so that should save quite a bit of time too.
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I played a lot of KOF 2001 back in the arcade and it's certainly impressive for this game, although I do question the character selection. Also, I can't help but compare it to the other fighting games TASes and it just isn't as entertaining as those :/.
I voted meh.
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Okay, so.. I'm stumped more than ever with the 2x damage glitch.
I think that you can buffer an attack with regular sonic as long as the hitbox is disjointed, before the hurtbox is available (Not finish Jelly tonight, too tired, and can't confirm this either). Not sure if this can be used for boost since it's not largely disjointed.
Anyways. Touching CJ during the delay of the third stage explosion does a couple of things... sometimes:
1-a) It drops Speed and X-Velocity to 0.
1-b) You can't change X-velocity even by using a first or second stage explosion
2) CJ become invulnerable
3) The explosion is sped up considerable.. 10~13 frames
But, sometimes you CAN touch him during the delay and 1a/b and 3 will not occur, but he'll still become invulnerable.
Touching Jelly with the innate hitbox that's attached to burst will erase any charge. Touching Jelly with a level one explosion during the delay of the level 3 counts as a stage 3 for both triggering invulnerability and damage... but sometimes it won't, and CJ won't even be damaged by the level 3 explosion's large hitbox if that happens. It seems to depend on how close burst is to CJ.
EDIT
Definitely no buffering for boost, I was just really tired xD. It's possible to buffer a stomp to hit the first frame the hurtbox comes out, but I've been doing that since 2010 <_<.
Ended 15 frames faster. I lost two frames because of dropped input frames during the stomps which I couldn't help :/.
Uploads later today.
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Cruizer wrote:
So after Sweet Mountain, it would be Aquarium Park to get Laser? Since Drill isn't used at all in that stage.
Yep. I'm procrastinating pretty hard on Jelly right now. I'll have him finished sometime today though.
Btw, I sent you a YT message about Jelly. I'm not really sure how to reach you effectively xD.
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So I've found that the RNG advances during:
Gaining or losing boost gauge (Only once per action, not per frame)
Killing an enemy (Even though this seems relate to gaining boost, I speculate it will move the RNG with a full Boost gauge)
Results screen
Well, those are the most important anyways. So it seems like the results screen is the easiest means of manipulating the RNG since it won't involve losing time with excess boosting or glitching through enemies.
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Same thing for me too. Hm... it's so close to tell exactly what happened. Early day tomorrow otherwise I'd try some more.
I do have a few other ideas.
A) hit with the innate hitbox during the stage 3 delay while Jelly is still falling (so, be under Jelly) to the ground, then the stage 3 explosion hitbox hits once he does hit the ground.
B) Close the gap between the innate hitbox hitting and the explosion hitbox hitting as much as possible. If Jelly is any indication, this should be between 4 and 5 frames depending on lag.
Still, it looks like Cruizer hits Jelly with the innate hitbox since he moves up and right before exploding. He doesn't use any explosions during the delay either if the thumbs are any indication, ....although that might be a good work around.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
btw, for Captain Jelly there’s some sort of glitch(?) where Burst does ×2 damage for apparently no reason, it’s how Cruizer got his TA record… would that be helpful for a TAS?
he had a video but it seems like it’s lost now, he simply went from right to left while in Burst and released a charge next to the boss that just fell down
edit: he found it and is gonna upload it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B36AvpTutAI
Red Burst? When I checked in '10, I found that the animation burst causes Jelly to do does takes too long. It's worth taking another look.
It's been awhile since I burned myself out back in October. I did finish Jelly up in December, but I didn't post anything since it's not finalized (never took a look at RNG manipulation needed for the next boss). I might just take a look at Burst again though.
And yeah, I loved generations. Chemical Plant lagged really badly on my PC, but I think it was an amazing game xD. The 3DS version is really good too if you can get a chance to play it.
EDIT
Off the top of my head, all I can think of when I watch it is that maybe Cruizer touched Jelly's hurtbox during the Stage 3 Explosion delay with burst's innate hitbox, then the hitbox of the Stage 3 explosion hit afterward. I'm not sure if it's possible to be knocked out of the stage 3's explosion delay. Or maybe that delay makes Burst's innate hitbox do the same damage as the level 3 explosion. Then those two hits together would explain the double damage.
I've got tons of ideas now xD, I think this is just what I needed.
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November has been a pretty crazy month with game releases (Seriously, I've been lucky to finish a game or two before another few released). I've finished up on everything I've wanted to play that's come out, so now I'm going to back to TASing this again on the 22nd. I've already got my plan laid out for what to do in my prior posts, so I won't say the same thing twice.
Should have everything hammered out by the end of the week and hopefully have the final route for AP all set after a few trial runs.
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moozooh wrote:
Also make sure to keep an eye on comprehensive tests that calculate per-$ efficiency; obviously the formulas will be different for every site, but generally they won't contradict each other. I use iXBT.com for the reference, but it's in Russian. The last table on the page is sorted by per-$ efficiency, with the rightmost column being the average price, and the one in front of it the performance index (all data from October '11).
Hey, thanks a lot! I'm going to bookmark and check that out now.
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moozooh wrote:
HD 6870 is a good card, GF 560 Ti is as well. They should be quite enough if you aren't hell-bent on combining huge resolutions with multisampling. It's cheaper to get a decent card every two years or so than investing lots in one "dream card" that will serve you just a few months more before the next game with killer graphics comes out. If anything, more powerful cards are often louder, larger, and need more watts to run.
Well heck. That takes me back to wanting to purchase it right now lol. Glad to hear that it'll hold up, but I've gotta hold up and not cave in yet xD. Even if it's the difference of $20~30 when the 7xxx series comes out, or there's a better card, I don't wanna regret it later.
I know there are people out there who always want "the best", and that's why the 580/6990 are out there. But I'm not rich (or crazy) enough to spend $400~600 for something that'll be obsolete in 8-10 years. For that kind of money, I'd want it to last that long and I know it wouldn't xD.
Atma wrote:
VanillaCoke wrote:
Sonic Generations lags on Chemcial Plant
Sonic Generations lags on chemical plant with a 5870, so think nothing of it.
Realistically, hold off on upgrading until the 7xxx series if you can help it, you're more or less wasting time upgrading now.
Well hey, that's really good to know lol. I chalked it up to my GPU being "meh" rather than see if anyone else had the same problem. Took a quick look on google and found there's quite a few other people experiencing the same bit.
I'm going to try and hold off. I updated my drivers today and got Skyrim to work well enough that it's playable, so I'm not in as much of a hurry now.
Gotta say, I feel like I have to hold my breath with each fall release that I purchase hahaha.
arukAdo wrote:
Because if you use a fullscreen but not with max resolution then everything will look goofy, try 640x480 fullscreen on a 16:9 screen thats suppose to run 1920x1080, it has nothing to do with physics, it will just look bad, stretched, and ugly.!
Lowering the resolution didn't help much. The sections that would lag, lagged smoother xD. We had the same idea, but I appreciate your input buddy.
Tub wrote:
Snip
Well, I'm only listing games that lag at lowest settings. So far it's only been Sonic Gens, Skyrim and the extremely poor-port of Saints Row 2. But two out of those three are releases from this fall.
But hey, I like that idea a lot lol. I think I can wait it out until the next series, but I'll steal your mindset here and use it to keep from obsessing when other parts and cards get released afterward. I still get a little mad when I see a 2 GB SD card for $5 in the drug store (I paid $150 a little after they first came out in 2004/Early 2005).
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So I've been running the 5670 since I was on a tight budget when I built my computer this time last year. Needless to say, I've got a hard time maxing anything out, and now I'm having trouble running stuff at the lowest settings (Sonic Generations lags on Chemcial Plant, Skyrim).
Well, the AMD 7xxx series is coming out (NVidia is releasing a new set too, for that matter) and I can't make my mind up with what I want to do. It's basically
A) Invest in a new card now (Probably the 6870) and regret it in 3-5 months when I could have saved money on the same card or gotten a new one
or
B) Not enjoy certain releases over the next 3-5 months, but be happier in the long run.
B seems like the obvious choice, but it's hard imagining going that long. If anyone is experienced with gpu releases (This is my first go-around, been a console gamer for 22 years prior), can you give me some insight? Will it really be worth waiting that long?
Before anyone suggests OCing my 5670, I have been with the maximum allowance that AMD Overdrive will let me. It helps a lot, but it just doesn't cut it with this fall's releases. I've got a 750 watt PSU, so that's not an issue (not looking to crossfire anything, either)
Help! xD
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Captain Jelly is "finished". Still haven't taken a good look at the RNG, so that's why I have finished in quotes.
I decided I'm going to skip Starlight Carnival until I can get Cyan Laser. It'll easily cut ten seconds off the first act (my old WIP is barely faster than the human record over at the Sonic Center, which isn't bad for being almost a year later) since I won't have to travel out of my way. It might be a pain due to all the possible combinations when using the laser as far as coordinates and angles go.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
been playing your run, and I notice there are some parts where you run a lot without doing air dashes… why is that? I still have never played Colors, but at least in Rush Adventure doing continuous air dashes was faster than simple boost running
also noticed you don’t do the restart trick in act1… (is that faster in the first place?)
so far my attempts at finding the RNG have failed
edit: while TAing the 2nd boss, I found that you can go through the floor if you air dash against the invisible wall and do the stomp a little before landing http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9371/wata.jpg I wonder if this could be useful somewhere? edit: lol, I think this could be used as entertainment instead of always running around like mad… actually I think it’d make the run slower, the strategy should be jumping on top of the first pirate thing then air boosting into the second
edit: by the way, I tested a lot and in your current WIP the 2nd boss attacks ASAP, you can continue TASing it
- The main reason is because this game is a bit different than in Rush/Rush Adventure. Sonic can't airdash while boosting like in those games and instead boost has to be released. So unfortunately, the same x-velocity/speed gains just aren't possible (It's not even possible to hit the x-velocity/speed "cap" on a flat surface lol).
If the space permits, I'll do it as much as possible since it's slightly faster than what's possible on the ground (3778*16), but the sections where I don't during the whole stretch are for at least one reason. Some common ones are: positioning on slopes to get a bigger boost when jumping (4036*16), needing to use boost for a portion of a long jump, dropped input frames.
On the plus side though, there is midair boosting in Sonic Colors that isn't in Rush/Rush Adventure, so there are some long jumps that would otherwise be impossible without it (as well as keeping a nice average x-velocity). It gives 0 y-velocity for 20 frames AND resets the airdash so it can be used again.
- I'll definitely check into that stomping glitch some more, that's an awesome find. I've got another stomp glitch that I'm going to use to kill it xD, so that works perfectly. Thanks for looking into everything too, I really appreciate it. My town has had a blackout since Sunday morning >_<, so I haven't been able to reply or get any work done on this. It's good to know that someone besides me confirmed that the Captain Jelly attacks asap.
- That strategy is the same one I used before and tested again and it is definitely the fastest one. Again, it's good to have someone else's opinion and insight on the matter since sometimes I find myself second guessing my selections and waste a lot of time finding other options (sometimes there are, usually there aren't). I also tested using Red Burst (Fire Wisp), but the animation the boss plays from it takes too long to be of any use in this fight.
ALAKTORN wrote:
I believe I found your RNG ;) 02120F8C, 4 bytes
Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank youuuuuuuuu! ^_^. You're awesome xD.
EDIT
I'm taking a break to play Sonic Generations for a week or two starting tomorrow. I would attempt to finish this fight tonight, but I still need to understand how the RNG is going to manipulate the next boss and every other boss as well.
I'm debating completing all inputs for each boss before I work on another level. My experience so far has been that bosses don't have dropped input frames (just lag frames), so syncing should work with little changes besides line editing. I'll make sure to test this out before I get really invested in making inputs for each boss. It's just a preference thing since bosses takes about a max of three days versus some levels taking weeks. It'll be worse after Starlight Carnival, as I never TASed the remaining levels. I plan to each level at least three times to get everything from the routes to the individual sections down optimally.
and one more time (definitely not the last), thanks again ALAKTORN. I really appreciate your help in getting that RNG address. I haven't checked anything besides Captain Jelly, but it definitely does the trick ^_^.
While I've completed Prime a couple times, I'm unaware of the finer points of the game. That being said though, his WIP looked really optimized to me. But I like your attitude xD.
I wonder if there are any gets left.
