I have played the game, but that doesn't make this submission any less boring.
Though you have played about ten games in total. That's less than the proverbial fifty games one must lose quickly, and not enough to begin to appreciate the game's complexity :)
True, but I have also watched many games (which I usually find more interesting than playing it). I suppose there is just more excitement in seeing two actual players fight as opposed to one player who has infinite retries and one stupid computer.
Shrug.
I didn't say RPG TASes are boring, and I don't find them boring. I just said that people often say they are.
Curiously, the same things are said about the various RPG games (slow, boring, have to turbo through most of the game, only people who have played the game can appreciate it...)
Slow, boring, repitive and annoying music, stupid CPU. Nothing suprising or exciting.
Well, you get two of them, but miss the rest. RPGs usually have some form of interesting things in them; incredible luck manipulation, silly sequence breaking, good music, appealing graphics, lots of areas, etc.
With this you basically watch a bunch of circles on a screen that never changes.
I find your inability to notice these things amusing.
I wish I had discovered this movie hours ago when I was suffering from insomnia.
Voting "no". Slow, boring, repitive and annoying music, stupid CPU. Nothing suprising or exciting.
I wasn't a fan of the long submission queue -- over 4 months for some movies -- and I personally think two-four weeks is good.
It's just that short quees indicate that movies became less unique and more aimed on frame counter. The less subjective matter (entertainment) a movie contains, the easier is to judge it.
That, or hyperactive judges who think that even letting the workbench go over 10 submissions is horrible and needs to be stopped lest we ever return to "look this run's been rotting in here for a year" mode.
You know who you are.
Wow this is offtopic... but oh well. :P
I have to agree too. Speedruns that are blazingly fast are interesting if you have an understanding of the game (and the specific mechanics used in the speedrun) already, but otherwise, the blazingly-fast-ness is kinda boring. Entertainment is accessible for anyone though.
I found this movie and was well entertained, even though I hardly know anything about DI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jBBZk_7EWE
This is the sort of stuff I wouldn't mind going from game to game watching, even if I have no idea what the game is much like. Speedruns tend to be much less interesting to me, even if I know they're impressive.
I find that funny.
And judging from someone I pasted it to, he finds it funny as well.
Strange, isn't it?
(For my two cents on the old matter, freezing is where the game cleanly locks up, crashing is when corruption of sound/video/etc occurs and the game freezes.)
That page was not written to say "we are not aiming for speed". If you interpret it like that, you are simply wrong. (words)
Thus it's only natural that all of these movies are timeattacks.
Speed is still not the primary goal. Entertainment is.
Then, uh... why this line?
This basically discredits your entire post. It is there, black and white, clear as crystal etc etc etc etc etc blah blah blah that they do not aim primarily for speed, but entertainment, although it does however say that they are timeattacks simply because going slow and being inefficient (doing nothing with time as opposed to progressing or doing something interesting) is boring, which is not entertaining.
I'm a black and white kind of person, and your middle ground approach just seems as dumb as Truncated's halfpublishing of Super Metroid IngameTimerVersion.
I wasn't even aware that this movie was "published" until someone else told me, and I check the front page rather often. Publication, at the lowest form on this site, has always occured with the creation of a movie page on the main page and a posting to the front page, provided the movie is "new" (i.e., not a recreation from an older movie).
I fully disagree with the joke of a "publication" this movie recieved. That does not mean I am for or against publication on the whole, but I do not believe that such a useless middle ground should be accepted.
I wonder why almost everyone keeps simplifying things down to some measurable matter. Sure it makes judges' life easier but it restricts TASing too much. That's why I'm against meeting ultimate decisions/definitions of basic terms (what's TAS, its goal, and how to judge).
In fact, I miss old times with long submission quees and disputable movies, when it was possible to perform something suboptimal (e.g. play with funny glitches that make you lose several frames) and not to be afraid that someone suddenly walks in and improves your run by simply eliminating all those "flaws". Today you have to forget everything and aim on Frame Counter, or you'll lose to someone less principled.
Now there's much less room for art in TASes than it was before. I'm not content with where this is going.
I wasn't a fan of the long submission queue -- over 4 months for some movies -- and I personally think two-four weeks is good. But now it's more like two days to accept a run (SMB2).
... but everything else is basically exactly how I see things.
AKA's reply makes me chuckle. "How could anyone possibly enjoy something else?"
hey, at least this isn't 50%!
you seem to have mistaken idiocy in the style of Acmlm's board and/or Justus League for humor.
I suggest you consult with a professional comedian to sort out the distinction between idiocy and humor.
And for the record, there's a fair amount of humor on the boards, though the mood has been a bit more somber of late. But even in the most jovial of the forum's moods, it doesn't take well to being mocked.
Humor comes at an expense (unless you like corny, forehead-slap-inducing popsicle jokes).
Everybody gets poked fun at.
And regardless, if you dislike this thread... why not let it simply fall off the thread list, rather than bitching about how it is a worthless thread while contributing nothing? If you have a personal issue with me (e.g. thinking all of my posts are worthless), take it to a private message, especially with this kind of thread.
By the way, I like your not-so-craftily hidden insult there ("idiocy in the style of..."). I could just as easily say "attitude in the style of the stuck-up elitest assholes of Tasvideos"...
Strange.
Edit: Oh. I see you edited out that little insult... well, let me keep it here as a reminder for you and everyone else.
I love contentful posts like this.
if you haven't noticed yet, sarcasm is a running theme in my posts here. the whole thing's meant to be a joke, but as usual tasvideos is full of SERIOUS BUSINESS
If by "starved for attention" you mean "bored and looking for something to do at 2 AM besides play Super Metroid", you're correct.
Beyond that, neh. Just boredom.
Image copy (and Bisqwit's edit)
Thread copythe actual movie file
It was too awesome for the workbench, so Bisqwit had to delete it before it overpowered the entire forum.
and somehow I bet this thread gets deleted too
(obvious test edit marked as minor to be SECRET)
why do you insist on padding your rerecord count to 100000?
[reply pending]
I completely concur... wasn't even plausible the first time.
Watch how the real count was only like a few thousand and he felt it wasn't big enough, so he inflated it to make it look like he's a god... [or a fraud more aptly]
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Aparrently someone missed the memo of how rerecord counts don't matter.
Le sigh.
why do you insist on padding your rerecord count to 100000?
Rerecords are easily forged and provide no useful data aside from a statistic. As fond as I am of statistics, a movie should be judged on the quality of it, and not some arbitrary, easily-edited digit.
After all, 5000+ rerecords could easily have been wasted on a route that didn't work at all, yet it would still reflect even though said rerecords had no impact on the final run. But this is just one example out of many.
How about putting your effort in improving the normal run, because, if I recall correctly, it would obsolete the current normal run and the Peach run since that one is unnecessary.
Would it really be all that bad to have a princess-only run? People are constantly complaining about lack of entertainment in the runs. Personally I find the princess-only run entertaining. I might be alone with that opinion, though.
(And no slippery slopes, please. We don't have to start accepting "character x -only runs" just because we have one "princess-only" run. It's perfectly possible to have this single category without having to accept other similar ones. It's not like it would hurt anyone.)
All you need to do to beat this argument is to point at the Knuckles run in Sonic 3.
The mechanics are a bit different (100% versus this run), as well as having a mostly-different route, but the basics are the same.
I, for one, have no real problem with a princess-only run. (Also, perhaps you should put a note in the submission about why it was cancelled.)
In response to Xkeeper:
Although I believe the whole reason behind the making of TASes is to entertain an audience, the fact that entertainment cannot be quantitatively measured necessarily rules it out as the primary basis for which TASes are judged. Instead, there needs to be a concrete "rule of thumb" that can be followed to crank out entertaining TASes one after another. As Phil points out, creating TASes that are speedy is a reasonable rule of thumb to achieve just that. If you believe there is a better rule of thumb to produce entertaining TASes, I challenge you to provide such a rule. What we can be sure of is that judging TASes on entertainment alone will not work because it would lead to a lack of concrete goals from the very outset of making a TAS. For example, imagine someone submitting a run of Super Mario 64 in which the author picks and chooses which stars to collect solely based on how entertaining he or she thought collecting each of those stars would be, not necessarily even completing the game. Clearly, this would be unacceptable.
Of course you cannot objectively judge entertainment. But like I've been trying to convey lately, the focus is solely on speed. That is, it is the only thing that matters, especially for run obsoletion.
Of course there are exceptions, but they are very rare and I can basically count them on one hand.
For the 100th time:
warning: huge text belowSPEED DOES NOT EQUATE TO ENTERTAINMENTwarning: huge text above
If you don't want speedruns but machinima videos, then go to youtube. There's plenty of those there. This site has never been about machinima.
You have completely missed the point.
Speed does not equate to entertainment; that is, something faster is not always better (see A Boy and His Blob for a perfect example of this)
However, speed does usually help create it. The only point I'm trying to make, is that "faster is not always better" -- sometimes it is better to slow down and make something funny or interesting to watch without trying to be as fast as you possibly can.
Furthermore, yes, speed has always been a main goal of this site. I am aware of this. However, back then, it was not such a grind as it is now. Rather than having several imperfections (and being able to cover them up doing tricks or wasting time), they are sacrificed in favor of a lower time count. Hell, even Arkanoid, which could have, from my knowledge, had a glitchy title screen that wastes one frame and could've given something different, wasn't used.
I guess, to me, I equate these runs to diamonds. The imperfections are what makes them... well, what they are. Otherwise, they look too mechanical and too robotic, away from "this is superhuman" and into "lifeless; like watching a computer's brute-forced results"...
wasted: serving no useful purpose; having no excuse for being
If it is spent doing something useful (creating entertainment), then it is not wasted.
You are making yourself into an example of how Tasvideos, as a whole, obsesses over the time.
As the creator of the run is question, I must take issue with you on this. How is it less entertaining to show a strange glitch which speeds up the run significantly? Without suicide, the running parts are about 25% slower. The suicide bug is a strange graphics glitch, and is a lot more entertaining than having the 2 characters simply run along without anything interesting happening.
For the 100th time:
warning: huge text belowSPEED DOES NOT EQUATE TO ENTERTAINMENTwarning: huge text above
If you need any proof that there are other ways to create entertainment in movies other than "being 25% faster", I recommend watching Mission Illogical.
And on that note, read... "2 characters running along without anything interesting happening". Maybe you should take that oppertunity to do something interesting.
Well, how do you define "superplay"? Is it like just a collection of cool tricks you can do in a game, and "beating" the game is secondary?
Aiming to show something interesting, entertaining, amusing, whatever, without obsessing over how fast it is to the point these other qualities suffer.
A good example that jumps immediately to mind is River City Ransom. Player 2 is just suicided at every screen but dragged in to fight bosses occasionally, making the run utterly boring ("Oh look, he's dying again, suprise").
So I like ranting because I think where Nesvideos is going sucks, and will probably continue to do so until the "post reply" button stops working.
And how much do you think you have achieved by doing that?
Who knows? Perhaps nothing.
But maybe other people listen. Perhaps it gets people to think.
Maybe the results are not visible at first glance (i.e. hordes of people following me). Maybe there are no results, other than widespread hatred. I guess we'll never know, but at least it's something, rather than sitting here and watching a community I enjoy stop being an interesting place to visit.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Well, the obsession is a good thing in terms of getting better times, you know. But what do you want the site to be about, Xkeeper? Are you saying the videos should be a little closer to video walkthroughs?
My main desire for this site has always been to see it return to Tool-Assisted Superplay Movies, instead of Tool-Assisted Speedruns.
Better times do not always make better movies.
