My bad, I misunderstood the question as: "Given the same FW area and entrance and same last-seen-cutscene and same Blue Warp, why does FW WW do one thing for child and something else for adult?" But Farore's Wind Wrong Warp is adult-only (insert dirty joke here) so never mind :D
is there a list somewhere where I can see which areas have these and which cutscenes they have?
I think you are looking for this? Notice that for Temple of Time (ToT) WW in Dodongo Cavern, entering with song leads to crash, and entering from outside leads to credits.
Edit: Updated link, since they just moved the page.
This is for Spider-Waffle, before he rebuts MrGrunz:
I think you'll agree it's obvious that manipulated grass is way faster than giving a bottle to the guy, even if we did walk right in front of him. But according to Slowking's route, the only times we are anywhere near the guy is while collecting cuccos (1) and when going to trade the mushroom for the potion from DMT (2).
problem with 1: we don't have a bottle yet (let alone bugs)
problem with 2: we already needed the money, and he is at least 5s away, round trip
Whatever came of the idea of getting the 20r under the Zora River land bridge so we have fewer bushes to manipulate later?
Also if it doesn't waste a pause I think it was decided that the King Dodongo fight would be the best place to throw nuts.
For Spider-Waffle (and anyone else who missed it)
Slowking wrote:
Nuts will not drop from needle trees, but all the leaf trees in hyrule field. You can only get one drop from one tree. Every drop will give you 5 nuts.
(Those trees are fun. They will drop bombs, nuts, rupees, arrows and maybe some other stuff)
The place to get them is: On the way back from lake hylia we slide of a poe. Right next to the poe there is a field of leaf trees.
Also the juxtaposition of Slowking's recent posts and that Navi avatar amuses me :)
Haha, what was it originally, 6 frames of improvement that turned into 47?
Yeah, pretty much. That sort of invalidates some people's opinions about it being an "unnoticeable improvement" and their choice to vote "meh" or "no." But oh well, guess that can't be changed. ;P
I'd suggest making a new submission, but that will mean even more frames will be shaved off afterwards and it still won't be published. :P
The game does this little freeze every time you hit an enemy.
For future reference, there's a term for that effect :)
Hit Stop
But are you sure the game doesn't just queue up the Hit Stop time? I know OoT doesn't but I think WW does, and if the engines are similar...
at 0:55 in the video, it seems that throwing the rock, then rolling towards the gate would be faster than carrying it the whole way, since obviously link can move faster without a giant rock above his head. :P
Throwing the rock makes it break into rupees so that wouldn't help. Only if it's thrown against a wall, so never mind. It's been years since I've played :/
Edit after watching: I also feel that the rolling doesn't look optimal due to the fact that some wide areas are traversed in a not-perfectly-straight way, and corners and edges (e.g. It didin't look like you were constantly one degree away from falling off the spiral staircase going up from the sewers) aren't hugged enough. If hugging edges and making tight turns around corners makes the camera do ugly things, the C-stick can help.
But overall, it's enjoyable, thanks for the WIP!
In my opinion a combination of idea 4 and 5 is probably best
Probably. Not to mention adult killing Gohma and KD and then going to spirit with very little overworld time or cutscenes would be awesome.
But why is dying to skip the ganondorf market cutscene not an option?
Yes, but if something was based on the system clock, then trying to play back a movie on the same computer would always desync, since the time would be different than what it was when the movie was recorded. Am i wrong?
I'm saying that hypothetically, the time of the gamecube clock is reset for sync purposes to a specific time, say, "midnight, Jan 1, 2001". well, that is a different amount of milliseconds from "absolute zero time" depending on what timezone is being used to determine said date, because "midnight" is relative, see? Again, the problem could be unrelated, but what I am saying is possible.
Also, itsPersonal could debunk this himself too, by setting his own timezone to something else and playing back the DTM
If your computer's time mattered, it would never sync for anyone..
I didn't say time. I said timezone. (I'm a programmer but I've never looked at dolphin code so I may be wrong, but I've come across similar situations when dealing with network sync on connected apps)
If some randomness depends on the gamecube's clock which is set based on an epoch, the epoch is a different amount of time in the past from the current system time for different timezones. If UTC (or some other way of discounting timezone differences) isn't used, then that would explain the problem. Either way, it should be very easy for itsPersonal to state which windows timezone he has set and for ptorflaxendrosis to try the same one and see what happens. If I'm wrong, at least it narrows it down to emulator settings and hardware.
Also FWIW, this week, some parts of the world are on DST while others are not.
If you look at it right, you'll see that Eponas Song is out of RBA range. ;)
Oh. Looking at the charts, I see now that, for Epona's Song, you need the bit corresponding 0x20 to be on in the ID of the item on B. But none of the possible on B IDs are greater than or equal to 32. Fish and nuts it is, then :)
Here's a list of linked items:
Fairy - Deku Sticks
Full Milk - Bombs
Poe - Bombchus
Fish - Deku Nuts
Ruto's Letter - Arrows
Big Poe - Deku Seeds
Looking at this list, Deku Nuts is really the only thing we can easily get.
We've seen that 13 sticks is impractical as adult.
Getting bomchus and a poe would be slow (though at least give a reason for going to the graveyard for the shield too, :P )
Arrows and seeds are very far out of the way as well.
But what is the reason for not doing this with bombs? We can get 13 very quickly from rock/grass drops. To get full milk, we need a cow and Epona's song. To get Epona's song, we only need to RBA the poacher's saw. And there's a cow in a grotto that's like 1 second out of the way while going for magic from the poacher's saw acquisition (definitely less out-of-the-way than the fish grotto on the way to Odd Potion, anyway). So unless I'm looking at this wrong, full milk and bombs should be cheaper and faster than fish and nuts. Or at least a contender, as the song cutscene does take a few seconds.
This is where you tell me how I'm looking at it wrong :D
Stick costs 10r at the KF shop. If getting another 10r saves takes less time than what you'd save with one of those ZR HESSes, then it might be worth buying. But I doubt getting another 10r before the shop visit could be done so quickly.
I have to know from which trees you can get the nuts and if you can get more than 1 drop from each tree. I hope someone can help me on this.
I can't test immediately, but the 2 groups of trees near ZR/KF give nuts often enough that ZFG tries one of each in his attempts. Only one drop per tree (per hyrule field load) though.
MrGrunz wrote:
We need 80 rupees to buy the Hylian Shield as child
I don't know what (in-game) time it is when you get to market, but the RTS gets there only about 2 seconds before night going through Zora River. Then he waits for the drawbridge to close and can collect all the rupees by walking along the top. If you are that close to night, that will be faster than doing 40 rupees twice by going in and out of the market.
EDIT: why can we only get 40 if the bridge is down? is the last one so far away that we can't reach it quickly even with, say, a diagonal-ish sidehop and jump slash?
Are we sure, that nuts drop from trees without having nuts?
Yes. In ZFG's RTS (as of a week ago, I don't know if the route has changed), he has time to kill running around hyrule field after stick on b as adult and waiting for the egg to hatch, so he tries to roll into trees for nuts to avoid getting them at the store (which he needs to go to anyway for shield and stick, I think), and he does get the them sometimes.
Also, the TAS needs to consider getting the nuts, I think manipulating 2 tree nuts would potentially be faster, it takes about 9s to buy nuts in the shop, and 3s to grab second bug, and 4s to sell bug; also about 3.5s to throw 7 nuts which I'm not sure if you could do while waiting on egg to hatch, or maybe egg hatches in time anyway. Either way, it's about 16s to buy nuts, where as collecting from trees near the route with an extra SS thrown in should be less than 16s, the cut scene for getting nuts is shorter this way.
Isn't the cutscene "you got nuts, and they can be equipped with C" no matter what? If throwing the 7 nuts takes less time than 2 pause screen equipment changes, no point in doing it while waiting for egg to hatch, right?
I think the problem is a combination of S-W not testing beyond timing videos and repeating ideas to the point of being grating to the actual runners. Lots of strong personalities in the Zelda community :) But the ideas themselves are at least worth being discussed, imo.
Is there a written-down ganonless route somewhere besides "look at the current RTS record and stick a tektite hover and ocarina items warp in there" somewhere? Sorry if I missed it in this thread already.
Disc reading affects loading times, which are gameplay. Some games may have players choose different routes depending on loading times associated with them. Think Resident Evil door openings, or Ocarina of Time pause screens, or even what real time runners do in Metroid Prime. Sometimes, disc reading is so important, a mini game to keep you entertained while you wait is presented (think Oblivion tip screens, or the dragon ball bouncy thing for one of the more recent DBZ fighting games on 360/PS3)
