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jdaster64
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MUGG wrote:
---------- About Zero Def Glitch: Video. This glitch is from December 2012. Back then I deemed the glitch useless because getting Thunderhand takes too long. More importantly, I think you needed to get the scroll from the hammerguys' new home's bonus room which took too long and costed money (?). I also never got the Youtuber's demonstration VBM to sync. Somehow, now I get it to sync using VBA 23 instead of 24m. I might be looking at the usefulness of this glitch later although I still deem it useless.
Oh, I should've thought to tell you I was using VBA 23; I don't TAS much, and ROM compatibility hasn't been an issue for casual playing, so I haven't bothered updating. It's a bit surprising that it wouldn't be useful, but seeing as Knockback and Chopper Bros. do so little damage after 8-12 hits, they'll hit the 2 damage minimum regardless with the POW you'd have, I imagine. And yeah, I guess you would have to go all the way to Gwarhar Lagoon to get Thunder Bros. in the first place. Regardless, I'd be interested in seeing more Mario & Luigi as well!
jdaster64
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Wow, missed this thread for a while. Those are some insane City Trial demonstrations. I wish I could get 1,500 Kirby Melee kills at the rate that video does.
jdaster64
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Don't know if you got my reply on YouTube, but it turns out that the minimum damage from Chopper Bros. Advance would still be 2 even with Zero-DEF glitch, at least in the NA version (it takes 12 hits to reach that). The attack damage constants do appear to be different between versions, though, so it might merit further testing. I did post an emulator movie that proves that the glitch works, as well. EDIT: nvm, didn't see your replies. Not sure why the .vbm desynced, either.
jdaster64
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I don't think I'm ever going to get back to working on this, sadly. I'd be glad to post what I have so far, and help come up with general strategies, if anyone else is interested in continuing the run.
jdaster64
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I'd like to see a Maximum Score TAS of the Challenge Mode in Kirby's Dream Collection: SE, seeing as it's unlocked from the start of the game. Full-game any% and 100% Kirby's Return to Dreamland TASes would be sweet as well.
jdaster64
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I probably will, so in that case, an extra 2,000+ in 1-2 wouldn't be the worst thing. I'll probably go for max speed overall first, then see how much I can add in without losing speed, then go about optimizing the remaining score. 3-1, 3-2, and 5-1 are some pretty good candidates for a ton of extra points. I'm going to retry the second half of 1-2 without getting the Fire Flower, it might actually save frames due to the transformation time, and I'll probably end on a 320, cutting out the firework as well.
jdaster64
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yegxr_f13o 1-1 and 1-2 WIP runs; fixed the flagpole jump in 1-1, and first run of 1-2. About 60 clock frames (eyeing it) faster than the current best run on 1-2, although the firework loses some time. Again, I don't think I lost any time by getting the extra score; everything was necessary for the fastest run excepting the firework at the end. Does it look like 12 frames could be saved for a 322?
jdaster64
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5UE8epyMdE WIP of 1-1; I haven't had too much time to work on this. Seems fairly optimized; nothing I went over by cost me any time. I love it when I have to edit something in that I swear will desync the run, but that not only doesn't do so, but inexplicably improves it by 2 frames.
jdaster64
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Only thing is, I'm really bad at optimizing collecting items from on top of blocks (like a stupidly high proportion of red coins, and ALL Yoshi eggs). Pretty much everything else is fairly straightforward, but there's a ton of variables to account for when dealing with blocks. Any pointers from anyone with more experience?
jdaster64
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Huh; if I do end up working on this and getting the Toad Medal, I WILL be playing the English version in all likelihood; you can't accelerate past speed 24 in midair with L+R in the Japanese version.
jdaster64
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Holding left+right makes Mario accelerate to max speed about 5-6 frames faster (not sure exactly, as I can't find the subsubpixel value in RAM), and also allows him to accelerate in midair while falling off of a ledge, which can't normally be done in Deluxe. There are a few places where I use corner-clips; if you jump into the middle of the top brick of a column when your horizontal speed is at least 24, not only will you get a boost out, but your speed can instantly jump to 40 (max) on occasion. Using this and left+right right before the stairs made the extra 10,000-point hit cost me only 14 frames, while still allowing me to get the full stair points. For whatever reason, although you can no longer get over 8,000 points from Koopas and the like by using the stair trick, if you let them walk off after the 4,000 hit, you can repeatedly score 5,000 points every time you jump on the shell. There's about a one-pixel space where jumping as soon as you hit the ground (a 2-frame window) will allow you to hit the shell and stop it in a single motion, much like the stair trick, but you actually have to hit A every jump. Each jump takes 30 frames, so optimization is kind of pointless if you can't get an extra 30 (or 24 for the timer+firework).
jdaster64
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Apparently the Toad Award's exactly 1,160,000 points. I'm considering doing a bit of work on a Challenge Mode TAS, though I don't know if I want to do the Toad Medal as well; fitting in those extra 218,000 (or 291,000!!! in the Japanese version, since I suppose it'd be better to use it for the lower requirements) points would be annoying to optimize.
jdaster64
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I want to say so; it's been a while since I played. It was a round number, either 1.5 or 2.
jdaster64
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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/64507723/henry_hatsworth_enemyguide2.xlsx This is the file, with some annotations I threw together at the last second. I haven't played the game in a while, so I can't recall the names of most of the upgrades or which suit parts do what. Probably the most important thing I found out that I didn't know beforehand is that Projectile Pro powerups ONLY affect uncharged projectiles; Specialist(?) affects them after any charge at all. Also, this might come in handy for something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECW1zmXKWU
jdaster64
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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/64507723/mlpit_stats_japan.xlsx Quick-and-dirty rip of the stats straight from the Japanese ROM, including levels and item drops/frequencies. So basically, the damage done by an attack is calculated as follows: Attack Constant * Attacker Level * Attacker POW / Defender DEF. This is true regardless of who's attacking whom. A list of these attack-constants and the item values for the file above can be found here; the constants might be different in the J version, but they should be reliable enough. EDIT: Oh, and that work-in-progress FAQ. Still has some really useful info, IMO: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/64507723/mlpit_wip_faq_usonly.txt
jdaster64
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I also have enemy levels (at least for US version) and multipliers for all attacks that both the enemies and Bros. use, as well as a list of the level-up values for all the Bros. (the bonus wheel is dependent on how many times you upgraded it and/or how much bonus you got, so I didn't bother trying to figure it out). I would presume most of that is the same in the Japan version, as well, with the possible exception of levels. There's a lot of calculations that go missed in the entire M&L series, in short; I've only seen a handful of places where anyone tried to figure out how damage is actually calculated. I know from experience that, again, at least in the US version, X/Y position RAM addresses vary from room to room.
jdaster64
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If anyone wants info on stats, I have an old FAQ-in-progress that has a ton of new info on the Bros.' stats and some on enemies'. I can quickly edit together all the other stuff without description and explain it if needs be. It may not necessarily hold for versions besides the US version, though (I don't recall if PiT has any substantial regional differences).
jdaster64
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If anyone is still interested in doing a TAS of this game, I have just about perfect info on enemy HP/gem counts, as well as specific stats on all upgrades, and the damage of all of Hatsworth's moves with every upgrade.
jdaster64
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Though it would be interesting to see if you could somehow wall-clip and get Mario over there, and see if it lets you fight the battle with them both.
jdaster64
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@MUGG: Piranha Bean is fought with only Luigi, so no, you couldn't. It is possible to get the Game Boy Horror beforehand, but then you'd have to get all those beans BEFORE getting the Surfing Game. In any case, you'd have to choose which you want. Personally, I consider getting the Piranha Suit "more complete", but if it came down to choosing for a TAS, I'd say either is fair game if you're really going for 1 of each equip as "100%".
jdaster64
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Technically, an all-equips run is impossible; you can only get either Piranha Swing or Piranha Suit from the Piranha Bean boss. That and it wouldn't be very interesting, due to you having to get Swing Bros. Advance and fight a bunch of random enemies to get all of the equipment (and if including the pins, getting 35+ of all beans). I think no-sequence-breaking (or at least all bosses fought in proper order) should be about the maximum requirement. All that said, I would eventually like to see a "more completed" run at some point in the future.
jdaster64
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Yes, I'm the same person, and I didn't know you could skip Thunderhand entirely. For an all-bosses run (I don't know how you'd define "100%" in M&L), it might speed things up a bit, though. As for how it affects enemy stats, here are the exact multipliers for all button combos: B - 0x00 (0%) DEF single BB - 0x1E (12%) DEF all BBB - 0x55 (33%) DEF all Adv BA - 0x00 (0%) DEF single Adv BAA - 0x46 (27%) DEF single Adv BAAB - 0x48 (28%) POW single NOTE: As far as I know, if an enemy is "immune" to attacks, like Glurp to Jump, Troopeas to Hammers, Jojora to anything, etc., this won't affect the damage they take. A way to test the difference is to use Mush Badges; if you only do 1 damage with a bunch of Mushrooms, then the enemy's immune to a certain attack.
jdaster64
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I know the TAS is already finished, but this might be useful for speedruns in the future; if you only land the first action command of Thunder Bros., the DEF-Down status reduces enemy DEF to 0 rather than 1/3 of its value. Video of this in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dQyUfauG-4
jdaster64
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Nice, can't wait to see it; SMB2-j's always been one of my favorite games.
jdaster64
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Finished a version with L&R (1,370,600 points): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8ueLLmBK8 I have 11 extra frames on the timer at the end (16 if I don't get the coin in the bonus area); I'm not sure what I could do with those, as I'm positive I can't save an extra nine frames anywhere for 550 from fireworks (and certainly not fifteen for an extra 5,000 hit) without costing myself even more points. At any rate, I like this run much better than the other, even if it was a lot harder to optimize. Incidentally, does anyone know of a level that it might be possible to beat this score in? Only seven levels allow the 5000-trick, and any level that's of similar length or longer will almost certainly produce an inferior score due to not being able to do the free second Koopa-stair combo.