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Added ALAKTORN edit privileges, also changed name order in the encode by request, since I do not care about it.
Plush wrote:
since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement.
Didn't feel like it was neccesary to include with lot of detail who did what specifically, but by reading this message I guess I have to.
Back in 2012, after submitting the 1 star run, we kept trying to find a way to make a 0 star run, by using the glitches we already know in the lobby. I'm not sure how much ALAKTORN tried here so I can't tell about him, but for me, I tried in every single wall corner in the lobby, in BoB room, next to the 1st key door, next to the BBH door (basically every corner), but didn't work on any of them, since, unlike the 8 star door skip, the ceiling stops you from clipping out of bounds.
Then I came with an idea myself. I knew there was a few things that potentially could make you go out of bounds in Joy Roger's Bay room. First one was the hole that looks like the entry for Secret Aquarium (I think ALAKTORN came up with this idea as well? I don't remember). You can slidekick there, and the idea was to get a heaven portal, and then fall behind the 2nd key door. The only thing we could get there was instant death.
In the end, I came up with the idea of using the bunny there. I didn't know if it was goind to be faster or not, so I started a 3 star test run, where I got 8 red coins in LLL, which is when I found the glitchy long jumps, then the 2 stars in shifty sand land. Then saving Mario, and going to the 3 star room.
My problem was that I couldn't place the bunny close enough to the wall, so I was stuck there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOsyRXBXh8
So I showed to ALAKTORN the TAS, asking him what he thought about it, and I cheated my position out of bounds on that wall, and made a TAS from there to the 2nd key door showing it was possible to do the skip just if we could get that bunny glitch, and that the estimate was about 40 sec save (1st attempt wasn't optimized).
This was the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOsyRXBXh8 (This video was uploaded months after this happened since I wanted to keep it just in case we decided to go back to it at some point).
At the beginning we couldn't figure out the way to glitch there, so we both ended up giving up. Then 2 years later (2014), ALAKTORN tried again, and found the new bunny glitch which consists on jumping behing it, instead of running. This set up lets you glitch when the bunny is a bit farther from the wall, so he could get the glitch in the end:
ALAKTORN wrote:
I just got a glitch that would allow us to beat the current any% record. the catch is, I cheated a little, but my attempt should prove that it’s possible without cheats
get hype
edit: got it without cheats :) just a matter of optimizing it now, which is gonna be the hardest part…
ALAKTORN wrote:
finally got what seems to be an optimized glitch
now to TAS into the unknown… might need some troublesome texture hacking…
full TAS should be ready within early May unless something goes wrong
edit: texture hacking was simple enough but damn if it’s hard to TAS this part…
So he sent it to me, and I was really surprised about the new glitch. Then I TASed from the glitch he got until the 2nd key, with the route I already thought of in 2012. I ended up being able to get there non-stop in a really optimized way.
I had a problem in the end though. I was entering on the left door of the 2nd key door. That entry makes the next part being slower by 4 frames, and in the end ALAKTORN was able to enter from the right door without losing any frames.
ALAKTORN wanted his name to be first because he found the glitch which made the run possible, I respect that. Saying he improved 50 secs of the 52 secs? That doesn't sound right to me.
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TAG wrote:
Yes Yes Yes. I loved the work that you guys put in.
I did notice in LLL that you stoped while getting the red coins, was that intentionally done or was it a mistake?
Anyway beside that I vote yes. Keep up the good work boys
That's intentional, and yoshi does not really stop.
Basically it's faster to do the first long jumps looking left, then the next one looking right, and that's the place we have to change Yoshi's direction. Yoshi looks like it stops because there's a wall there, but it still is conserving its momentum.
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There are a lot of issues with the routing so I have never attempted it. Specially the silver bunnies.
80 star tas no clips / no bunnies would be a more reasonable TAS to try though.
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Pinocle wrote:
I tried the glitch on the (E) 1.1 version, you can hold the null object and throw it, but nothing seem to happen next.
I then tried on the (U) version but you don't seem to be able to hold it at all, Yoshi just throw his egg and doesn't stop when jumping on a goomba.
Hope this help.
I tried with (U) as well and couldn't do it as well.
As for Bowser throws, I improved 4 frames.
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The glitch looks interesting indeed, maybe it has potential in the future.
As for the any%, seems like ALAKTORN doesn't want to work on it anymore, so I'll check to see if there's some improvements (Bowser throws maybe), and then submit.
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Haven't watched the TAS yet, need to find a day to find time to watch it. Still, I know about a few glitches implemented, and saw a few WIPs, so I'm safe to vote yes.
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I will if I'm able to fix my PC. Right now my emulators crashes after about 1 min because there's something wrong with it. That's why I haven't been too active with TASing lately.
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Metarkrai wrote:
EgxHB :
Thanks for correcting me !
I thought that Pokerus doubled both Experience and EVs.
So yeah, he's not really useful to the run (too few battles and Levels to have a great stat difference with EVs gained).
Pokerus is definitely useful, since you would skip getting the HP UP (and of course, using it).
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"Used the Rare Candy on Abra since Abra doesn't learn anything until after it evolves and proceeded onto Route 103 to face the Twins Amy & Liv as they are needed for glitch setup."
Can you explain this? Why are they needed for the setup?
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, imo it depends on whether the memo pad can provide enough entertainment for 5 minutes that would justify the 20 seconds used.
Edit: Post a short WIP on that section maybe? Let's see how others find it.
well I haven't done anything with the memo pad yet, I guess I can post a short WIP of that when I have something done though.
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I have a question / suggestion for the glitched TAS, and I need your opinions about it:
The current route, as you guys probably know, consists on doing a tweaking glitch, and then biking in the void for about 5 minutes.
This can look pretty boring, just going through a black screen for 5 minutes, and the only possibility to make it a bit entertaining is using the calculator, stepcounter, and some other useless Poketch apps.
There is an extra Poketch app I could get, called Memo Pad. Basically it's an app that would let me draw on the Poketch, and therefore make the run more entertaining, since I could draw stuff on it while doing the void glitch.
The extra app would take around 20 extra seconds. I wonder what you guys think about this.
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grassini wrote:
get help from kaphotics,he said he would help when people stopped playing 4th and 5th gen
I think I now have anything I need to complete a run. I already had it, but it was how encounters were determined the only thing I couldn't find anywhere, so recently decided to search it for myself.
Editing the formula since I just noticed biking on grass or caves gives you a higher encounter rate. Running /walking is the same still though.
Now formula makes sense, one RNG checks for number of encounters, other checks if running or walking/running, and other checks terrain stuff.
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FractalFusion wrote:
mkdasher wrote:
Can anybody confirm if that journal trick is just japanese only? I have tried it on the English version and I can't manipulate RNG with it.
The journal trick definitely works in Diamond and Pearl English versions (I did it in my WIPs). I recall that you need to access a journal page that says that you caught a Pokemon.
Oh I see. Then it's an useless trick for the TAS I'm doing since I don't catch any Pokemon.
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I finally figured out how wild encounters are determined. It is also the first time I try to read any game code:
First of all, the game will check the number of steps you have taken on grass in that area (or steps in a cave). That number is reseted when you change to anotehr area, and when you have an encounter, but NOT when you battle a trainer. If the number of steps is less than 5 (on grass) or less than 7 (on a cave), then the RNG is called, if RNG value divided by 656 is higher or equal than 5, there will be no encounter, else RNG will be called again.
If the number of steps is higher (than 5 on grass, or than 7 on a cave), the first RNG call is skipped.
The number of steps is stored in 0x0228FCB8
On the second RNG call, if RNG divided by 656 is higher or equal than 40 (running or walking) or 70 (biking), then there will be no encounter. Else RNG is called another time, and if RNG divided by 656 is higher or equal than 30 (for grass) or than 10 (for cave), there will be no encounter. If it's lower, there will be an encounter.
The value that is terrain dependant is stored in 0x02291834.
If water, the value is stored in 0x02291900
Just in case the explanation above is hard to understand, I'll write how the formula would look in C code:
Language: c
int terrain_value = readbyte(0x02291834); //On normal grass, terrain_value = 30, on cave, terrain_value = 10.
int counter = readbyte(0x0228FCB8);
int max_counter = 8 - ((terrain_value * 256) / 10) / 256; //for grass, max_counter = 5, for cave, max_counter = 7
if (max_counter > counter){
counter++;
if (rand() / 656 >= 5) return false;
}
if (rand() / 656 >= value) return false; // value = 40 when walking or running, value being 70 when biking.
if (rand() / 656 >= terrain_value) return false;
else return true;
This means that for each grass step, you have a 12% rate of finding encounters, and 0.6% in the first 5 steps, and on a cave, you have a 4% to find an encounter, and 0.2% on the first 7 steps.
If you're biking, then rates are 21% (1.05% on first steps) for grass, and 7% (0.35%) for caves
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Can anybody confirm if that journal trick is just japanese only? I have tried it on the English version and I can't manipulate RNG with it. I'm basically stucked in Eterna Forest right now, because there is too many grass and no NPC, so it would be quite hard to get through that without encounters.
Currently I'm picking up a Repel on Route 205, it might be the best option so far.
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TheKDX7 wrote:
Where progress with improvement ALAKTORN?
Outside (beginning of the TAS) has been improved by 42 frames due to a new strat.
There's still a few things we want to improve before submitting a new TAS.
now to TAS into the unknown… might need some troublesome texture hacking… full TAS should be ready within early May unless something goes wrong edit: texture hacking was simple enough but damn if it’s hard to TAS this part…