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Warp wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
japanese text saves a shitload of time ;)
you won't believe how much it actually saves, it is a lot
This proves that Japanese is a lot faster to read than English... :P
It proves that Japanese is a lot faster to display than English, I (an any other non-speaker) would take forever to read anything written in Japanese ;)
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The bosses shots can be manipulated with as little as a one frame change in direction. Because of this, I'm not excited about reworking this, because hex editing is unlikely to work for at least the bosses, and possibly the levels as well, and my WIP goes up to 4-2.
Speaking of which, in 4-2, I found a slight shortcut, but it doesn't stop you from having to hit the switch, which is unfortunate. In case you're wondering, I take the top route again after hitting the switch, then jump up onto the final moving platform with a well timed leap.
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adelikat wrote:
It makes sense to remove our speed based movies. However, even if we replace as many of them as possible with some of their more entertainment based predecessors, that is still an 95% cut of the site's content!
If this indeed becomes the route we have to take, I guess I'll have to eat my words and accept Saturn's 14% run, as it was clearly thought of as entertaining, and we don't have speed/frame precision/fastest possible category etc. to worry about when accepting something anymore. I guess I should also formally apologize to Saturn for keeping his movie off the site, even though I still think my decision at the time was correct. If this change is necessary, I think his run would make a good addition to the 'new' TASvideos, as ironic as that sounds.
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Wow, that's an awesome find Jungon! I've been working on this off and on, and have gotten up to 4-2, but I'll need to go back and implement this! Are you looking for other shortcuts too? Also, have you had difficulty with the emulation as much as I have? (specifically with loading savestates and having objects not reset like they should?)
Oh, and are you working on a run of this yourself?
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So, with the knowledge that it's virtually impossible to accurately emulate real hardware, what do we do? Keep going with the current emulators and just tell people they're "good enough"? Have a disclaimer on all our videos stating "This may or may not be the fastest possible way to beat this game, we really can't say if it's actually possible or not"? Alter the site mission statement to be all about entertainment and have speed be totally eliminated, since we can't measure it anyway?
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So if we can't accurately say that we are emulating a game as closely as possible to the real hardware, how are we supposed to convince people that this site provides god-like play? I mean, sure some emulators are way behind others, but if emulation of platforms like the NES and SNES are not actually as stable as we once thought, it makes what we do look no better than just memory hackers, cheaters, etc.
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After doing a quick translation of your name, I would guess that's the problem.
Also, this doesn't seem like the correct thread to post in, because I know we had one dedicated to youtube sponsorship before. I can't find it to move it though, so meh.
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MrGrunz wrote:
why do you pick this up again, mmbossman?
this whole discussion is pointless and always ends in a huge fight
I bring it up simply because I've never received a good reason to consider the J ROM to be better, other than faster text boxes. If I hear of a good reason, I would have no problem with allowing the next version to use the J ROM as well.
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alden wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
Sure, someone will win, but who gives a shit?
I thought this god damn site wasn't supposed to be about competition but entertainment. SDA is about competition. That's why it doesn't matter that we're cheaters.
You're right, it isn't about competition. It is about entertainment. It's not entertaining to me to see tool-assisted mouse clicks, particularly since I've never played Myst and have no teary-eyed, moist feelings about it. True, maybe several million people have played it, but that doesn't mean it makes an impressive TAS. It doesn't do anything unexpected, nor "God-like". Expect me to feel the same if/when a run of Riven is submitted.
Edit: Upthorninja'd
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For what it's worth, I don't think this game produces a good TAS or speedrun. Clicking as fast as possible is about as entertaining to me as having a competition to see who can blink the fastest. Sure, someone will win, but who gives a shit? Now imagine tool assisted blinking and you're close to what I got out of this submission. No offense to the author, of course, this game and it's ilk just aren't worth TASing.
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Slowking wrote:
snorlax wrote:
4. Even if you decided to make your own site just so you could do your run on the J version, this site will go on. Someone else will pick up the Ocarina of Time run because it's just too popular of a game with too much potential to just have a run sit there with clear improvements.
1. I wouldn't make my own site to use the J rom, I would make my own site because the rules on this site seem to be worth about as much as dog shit...
2. Yeah ofcourse someone else would make a great OoT run, because in the past 4 years so many people have done so. *rofl*
Btw. this run has been excepted for days now. When will we finally get a good encode? Nico video is really crappy.
Yeah, one of the reasons this was accepted was because of the vaporware that has been going on for the past 4 years.
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Mukki wrote:
I don't think level of difficulty to TAS should be a deciding factor in whether or not it should be published. That goes for games that are trivial to TAS as well as those that are incredibly difficult. Of course, where a considerable amount of effort has been put into making a run it should slightly tip the scales in the author's favor, but the weight attributed to it should be given with caution.
I want to add on a bit to this: Difficulty with TASing should not be a factor in judging/voting/etc, but difficulty compared to an unassisted run should be. Several games have slow enough movement and little/no luck manipulation, which would make an optimized TAS and an unassisted run nearly identical. That isn't superhuman, and doesn't belong on the site. Runs like this, however, are likely to be left up to the entertainment value. Anyway, carry on.
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I find it very amusing and puzzling at the same time that so many people seem to have no comprehension of the idea of exceptions to rules. Particularly when this entire site is dedicated to finding ways to circumvent rules in games.
Umm.... it was published, because people complained when it was rejected. We now have an addendum of the rules for improvements that are found during the making of a movie because of that submission.
DarkKobold wrote:
Seriously, if we are willing to accept a subpar run, lets accept the one that follows the rules, even if it isn't perfect.... Resurrect JNX's submission, and reject this.
Except JNX's submission broke the rules as well, it was longer than an unassisted run. Given two runs, one of which can be beaten by a kid with a controller, and one which uses a secondary ROM, I'll go with the ROM choice.
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Also, for anyone who is curious about why I'm for accepting this run, please reference this post, and the entire thread:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=222483#222483
In a nutshell: People get pissed off when the admin staff reject a good movie because of possible improvements, and yet in this thread, people are using that for a reason for rejection. Can't have it both ways people.
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MrGrunz wrote:
it's of course way better than guano's run or JXQ's run
Correction: JNX. I will crap myself the day that JXQ submits an OoT run.
EDIT: As for the run itself, I've only been able to watch the first 30 minutes on nicovideo (not because it cut out, because I ran out of time), and from what my untrained eye saw, it was entertaining. I feel like there are two arguments that seem to crop up here really often: "Video X is super entertaining, how can it not be accepted???" and "Video Y is entertaining but it's not optimal, so I immediately don't like it!!!".
From my standpoint, I can watch this run twice in the same time as I could watch Guano's run. It does use a (J) ROM, which is unfortunate, however the (U) before (J) rule was instituted to avoid arguments over which version was "better" (stemming from Phil [Hitler no Fukkatsu] vs. JXQ [Bionic Commando]). Given that the currently published run is one of a very few of our movies that can be beaten easily by an unassisted speedrun, I would say that *any* submission which improves it should be published, due to it being immensely better than what we have now (note that JNXs submission was rejected not for imprecision, but for also being beaten by an unassisted speedrun).
So: Half as long + moderate level of precision to the average viewer + and not beaten by an unassisted player (that I'm aware of)= Publishable. Is it perfect? No. But to everyone who continues to promise a new OoT run sometime (July of this year? I won't hold my breath), this is it. We have a new OoT run, and it's here now.
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I haven't watched this but I figured I'd ask this question now, since it will be brought up at a future date anyway. If this is found enjoyable by everyone, should it be published alongside the current run? And if so, what happens if another submission using another character is made/submitted? As I understand it, there are 8 available characters for this game. And from what I remember of the published run, at least 15% of it was watching cut-scenes of ships flying, which makes me doubt the need for 8 individual published runs. So where should the line be drawn, and what sort of criteria should we use to favor one character over another?
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I haven't followed any of the glitch discoveries of this game, so watching that WIP was very, very impressive! I haven't wanted to see a TAS as much as I want to see this one for a long time, please keep up the good work! :)
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Yeah, I'm not too much of a fan of "We have a new record but you're not cool enough too see it actually happen, so instead here's a high score to stare at, isn't that big number really cool?" type of record sites. At least Guiness will document their records through at least one type of visual media.
