Dearestest DK64_MASTER,
When will you stop bashing people you don't like?
(I understand this question doesn't quite belong to Fabian's blog, but it had to be asked.)
"Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as "I will use all weapons except this one"See published: SNES "minimalist" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) in 51:05.75 by T.S. (aka. Terimakasih) (quote: The only beams used are Charge and Ice)
-does this break the spirit of this guideline? somewhat
-then why is this acceptable? it was judged on a per-game basis
Nope, I think you misunderstood the category that particular movie competes in. As Metroid games have always been item-driven adventure games, it's obvious not every item is needed for their completion. As such, "lowest amount of items needed to complete the game" emerged and became a separate completion category (long before this site appeared). The run in question is an example of such "low%" category, and thus doesn't include any uncommon arbitrary rules (using only Charge and Ice is a result of reduced item set).
However, It's right that not every game allows entertaining low% runs (assessing the per-game basis argument), but since Metroid games are generally well-thought out and entertaining to watch, there have been a low% run published or in production for all items of the series.
Though it should be noted that TASVideos operated on per-game basis right from the start, so it's nothing worth pointing out, really — it's a common knowledge.
Callmewoof wrote:
I say, let this run be judged fairly according to the rules, guidelines, and prior cases. If this is rejected, let it be for the right reasons. Don't condone it based solely on a giant blanket statement about time, or TAS'ing as a whole.
I agree. Moreover, there are two points by which I think this movie should be accepted:
1) it's faster than the current published one where they are directly comparable (by about 30 seconds overall, no matter ingame or realtime);
2) since all the published movies preceding Hero's latest run prioritized the ingame time as their goal, it won't be unusual to publish this one, nor will it change any standards (I see this as a non-issue, really), rather it will show some variety. After all, no-one's stopping a new realtime-oriented any% run obsolete it on grounds of being more optimized (how to determine that has already been discussed, so it's not a problem at all).
Maybe the next time someone thinks about posting about the "worst day ever" not mentioning 9/11 or the holocaust, or the "worst game ever" without mentioning E.T. for the Atari, will reconsider.
Those aren't the worst, either, just the most hyped.
Is the level of optimization being put into the Ceres Escape also being put into the rest of the run(s)? I have read the notes from other runs in the past, so I know that there already is a very high level of optimization in these runs, however the past several pages have been dominated with efforts and arguments on how to improve this very small segment by a number of frames that's in the single digits.
Apparently, most of the rooms near the beginning are now like that, but Ceres is unique in the amount of semi-uncontrollable obstacles like the automatic doors (which even have frame rules in addition to that) that impede any further improvements, otherwise it would have been no problem to improve it. That, and also the fact that the rooms are very small and have very few jumps overall, so it's all running for the most part.
Lol, nice one, Taco.
Seems like we still have a lot of work to perfect the "perfect" parts. To get 49'15, we need 4 more frames.
To save a frame at the first jump in room 3, we need about 3-4 pixels of distance, which is unlikely to have gained solely through the optimization of subpixel position and acceleration over the span of two previous rooms. The scientist room is likely optimal as it is exactly as fast as on the way forward (103 frames), the corridor, however, isn't (95 frames forward, 97 backward, with the turnaround on the way to Ridley saving only one frame), but that is due to poor starting speed at the moment of entering it from Ridley's chamber.
At the same time, we haven't found a way to improve the upper part of zig-zag room either, which probably means it's optimal as well. So far the only way I see to get those 4 frames back is to enter the elevator shaft using turnaround animation while somehow avoiding hitting the ceiling of the hatch.
Current progress - at Spore Spawn. I think this fight is harder than Bomb Torizo so if you could give some tips? I'll try to figure some stuff on my own too though.
It's actually easier. His opening cycles are fixed once you enter the room (although they still depend on how many missiles you will pound into him each round), IIRC. What you need to do is: see where it opens the mouth the next time, position yourself. In case you don't need to jump to reach him, shoot the first missile from as high distance as possible so that the cooldown would allow you to fire the next shot sooner, and pound missiles into him. The last missile should always be dopplered. In case you need to jump, take a damage boost just before he opens his mouth, then jump into his sprite and fire the missiles as fast as you can. Note the amount of energy he has and how much damage can you deal with either method.
Watch Saturn's Torizo fight, it should be pretty self-explanatory for the most part. Weapon cooldown and boss invincibility addresses are your friends.
Well, even at 200% speed it was rather tedious for me to watch. The first ~half of the movie shows rather simple puzzles completed in hardly more time than what is needed to wait for the next one. The second half is by far more interesting, but… I don't know.
Spelunker is a game that takes this overall concept and gives something that is interesting to watch in a TAS as a result: faster pace, variative puzzles, contiguous game world and much shorter overall length. Gyromite takes all the otherwise and as the result, the TAS gets predictable and boring.
So, meh vote.
So if a movie which is over 1 hour longer than the currently published movie is not acceptable, why would a movie which is 25 seconds longer be acceptable?
Even though this argument by itself has a flaw, let me present you with the fact that different emulators (for instance, Snes9x 1.5 vs. Snes9x 1.43) emulate non-ingame time functions, like fadeout lag, differently. Thus, as a result, the more optimized movie, whether it aims fo RT or IGT, might in fact be longer in the actual frame count. Should it be accepted?
I would like you to answer that question — if not now, then at least when Phil and AngerFist submit their Super Castlevania IV improvement, which is pretty much destined to be longer (yet more optimized) than the currently published movie: at 1:15 in the run, 25 frames are saved by in-game time, yet 19 are lost in realtime frames due to uncontrollable fadeout lag. At that point, the realtime frame count is what becomes "some number", that you probably should, at least generally, not care about.
I have other additions to that list, too, but I'm too lazy to discuss them here. Feel free to reach me on IRC.
Fredrik wrote:
If there are too many SM tases, remove the outdated "minimalist" run instead. Practically speaking, the most recent any% routes (especially hero's) are very nearly minimalist in terms of item collection and have nearly the same spectacular tricks as a true minimalist route (not counting the Kejardon rape), without the slowness.
On a related note, I am working on a much (much) faster minimalist run using completely different route, and it's coming up pretty well.
I'm of the opinion that both questions- was this entertaining and was this technically precise- should be in the submission discussion. Published Movies are given ratings for both of these qualities, I think submissions should look at both too.
Yeah, I've had such a thought recently as well. On some other forums I've been visiting I've seen dual polls, so it's well possible, and probably plausible.
Also, my opinion is that the current question fits the most for the reason Deign stated: the #1 goal of the site was entertainment since about the creation of the respective FAQ page. The site doesn't collect all movies, and doesn't just go after the fastest completion of any game, so it makes perfect sense to question submission's entertainment value before publishing. And for reason Bisqwit stated, it's best if a user tells their opinion about the actual product, not its "official" status on the site or other political stuff.
The door stays grey until you kill beetoms, am I correct?
Correct. However, you don't need to kill the beetoms separately: as long as you have enough super missiles to kill one beetom, you can kill all of them. Just align them so that their hitboxes intersect, and all of them will collide with a super missile simultaneously.
It's been pointed out that not everyone votes on the new submissions according to what the poll question suggests (currently: "did you like watching this movie?"), or even interprets it literally. Since there is no statistics for that issue yet, here's a poll aimed to gather it in order to help improving, if need be, the current situation.
So everyone — and active users especially — please answer the question and state your opinions (and, if possible, elaborate on the reasons for them). In case of answer #2, it'll be good if you share your ideas for a new question, if any.
(I'll state my opinion a bit later to avoid creating premature peer pressure.)
No, on principle that I favor realtime over ingame time, always (Hell, in theory you could make a Pokémon run with 0 real time, but it would be 256 hours long)
You do understand there are two direct contradictions in this post, right? %)
Well, the most I see happening in this case is mentioning the other goal-oriented submission in the published movie's text. At this point the administration is against publishing two any% runs aside each other.
