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Room I is also an incorrect answer. You are still missing a key insight to solve the puzzle, which, rigorously, is a metapuzzle, because it involves reasoning about itself! We see that the king's hint makes the problem very peculiar. a) The puzzle, with only the signs, is unsolvable. b) The puzzle, with the signs, plus the information of whether room VIII is empty or not, is solvable. Remarkably, we must solve it without knowing what the king actually told the prisoner. How can this happen? What does it mean for a puzzle to be unsolvable? Solving the puzzle is finding the lady. Let us think about a brute-force way to solve this, if you had an extremely fast computer. One way to go about this is to do a search. You set all rooms, putting one lady and the rest either empty or with tigers. For the ones that are empty you specify whether the sentences are true or false. You check all sentences, together with their true and false values. If at least one of them fails, you discard the solution. If the puzzle is solvable, then after you test all possibilities, the only ones that remain have the lady in exactly one room. If the puzzle is unsolvable, as (a) says, two things can happen: i) No possibility satisfies all statements. ii) There are at least two possibilities with ladies in different rooms. But, as (b) says, with an additional constraint, the inside of room VIII, the puzzle is solvable. So, hypothesis (i) must be false. Essentially, this means that, if we take all possibilities that survived the sign test and impose one of the following: "Room VIII is empty" "Room VIII is not empty" Then we are able to cut the solutions, so that only those with a lady on a single room survive. How is that possible? Can you deduce the king's answer from this?
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I did not follow all of your reasoning, but the lady cannot be in room IX. If the lady is in room IX, then the statement IX is true, but IX being true implies that IX has a tiger, so that's a contradiction!
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Raymond Smullyan, who passed away last year, is, in my opinion, one of the most underrated logicians ever. He knew extremely well many complicated subjects of mathematical logic and could explain them in simple-to-understand logic puzzles. His most famous work is outlining how Tarski's theorem, which is much more general and easier to prove than Gödel's seriously shakes the foundations of mathematics. The key assumptions in Tarski's theorem are negation and self-reference, which is a common theme in Smullyan's puzzles. They always involve people who always lie or always say the truth, and make statements about themselves or about friends who make statements about them, and sometimes if the puzzle is solvable or unsolvable given some piece of information, and you have to work out what's actually happening. I believe his book The lady or the tiger? is among the best works of mathematics ever written. He starts with elementary puzzles that confuse laymen and quickly develops to more complicated logic puzzles, concluding with some chapters on formal systems in disguise, that has a puzzle which is essentially the proof of Tarski's theorem. The key argument in the proof (the Gödel sentence) can be written very elegantly in the "Smullyan way". Consider an island where every inhabitant is either a knight or a knave. Knights always say the truth, while knaves always lie. Some knights, called established knights, belong to an exclusive club (which is essentially provable sentences). The question is, if you hear someone say "I am not an established knight.", what can you say about that person? Simple, such person has to be a knight, because a knave would never make the true statement that he's not an established knight, so his statement must be true, which means that he's indeed not established. Translating into formal systems, we have a sentence that's true but is not provable. Another beautiful part of the book is the following paragraph: "I must tell you an interesting and revealing incident," said Ferguson. "A student was asked on a geometry examination to prove the Pythagorean theorem. He handed in his paper, and the Mathematics-Master returned it with a grade of zero and the comment, 'This is no proof!' Later, the lad went to the Mathematics-Master and said, 'Sir, how can you say that what I handed you is not a proof? You have never once in this course defined what a proof is! You have been admirably precise in your definitions of such things as triangles, squares, circles, parallelity, perpendicularity, and other geometric notions, but never once have you defined exactly what you mean by the word 'proof.' How, then, can you so assuredly assert that what I have handed you is not a proof? How would you prove that it is not a proof?'" This is a sadly accurate depiction of our educational system, and even many professional mathematicians have trouble understanding this simple idea. You can regularly see people pushing for different axiomatizations of mathematics, with philosophies like constructivism/finitism/whatever. In fact, they are trying to circumvent some assumptions of Gödel's theorem to find better foundations. But, as Tarski already proved long ago, this is a fantasy. The impact of Gödel's theorems do not depend on infinity or on a particular arithmetic. They happen whenever you have a language that can make assertions about the semantics of its own sentences. To circumvent this, you must create something that has absolutely no resemblance to human reasoning. Indeed, as Smullyan tells us at the end of his book: "In the prophetic words of the logician Emil Post (1944), this means that mathematical thinking is, and must remain, essentially creative. Or, in the witty comment of the mathematician Paul Rosenbloom, it means that man can never eliminate the necessity of using his own intelligence, regardless of how cleverly he tries." So, after this long introduction, paying homage to Smullyan, I will propose here the puzzle that gives the book the title "The lady or the tiger?", which is originally a short story about an unsolvable problem. The puzzle follows below: A prisoner is having a lady and tiger trial, but instead of purely chance, he can save himself using logic. There are nine doors. One of the doors has a lady behind and the others are either empty or have tigers behind them. If the prisoner enters the door with the tiger, he dies. If he enters an empty room, nothing happens, and if he enters the one with the lady, he marries her. The lady is a woman the prisoner loves, so he would prefer marrying her. At each of the nine doors there is a sign. If a lady is inside, the sign says the truth. If a tiger is inside, the statement on the sign is false. If the room is empty, the sign can be either true or false. The signs on each of the rooms are: I - The lady is in an odd-numbered room. II - This room is empty. III - Either sign V is right or sign VII is wrong. IV - Sign I is wrong. V - Either sign II or sign IV is right. VI - Sign III is wrong. VII - The lady is not in room I. VIII - This room contains a tiger and room IX is empty. IX - This room contains a tiger and VI is wrong. The prisoner then looks at the signs and concludes "This problem is unsolvable! That's not fair!". "I know", laughed the king. The prisoner replies "Very funny! Come on, now, at least give me a decent clue: is room VIII empty or not?" The king told the prisoner whether Room VIII was empty or not and the prisoner successfully deduced the location of the lady. Which room has the lady?
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Out of curiosity, has there ever been an instance where this caveat raised problems in an actual tournament? It's common practice that when you're ahead, but have to play a long endgame to take the victory, you start repeating positions (although obviously not three times) to quickly reach move 40, so that you get more time on the clock. I can picture that someone might confuse three-fold repetition rules and accidentally concede a draw, or a player might claim a draw where one does not exist. Has this ever happened?
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Hmm, twenty-one? One way to go at this problem is to use FEN. In FEN, besides the actual arrangement of pieces on the board, you have one extra field for an en passant square, a flag for which side is moving, four other flags for all possibilities of castling and some numbers for the fifty-move rule and the current move, which are irrelevant for this problem. So, we can play with the en-passant square and the castling and side-to-move flag to reach the same piece arrangement without actually the same position. It is impossible to reach a position with a non-empty en passant square more than once. That's because to allow en passant, you have to make a pawn advance, which cannot be undone. For castling, you'd have 2^4 possibilities, but in a game once you lose the right to castle (by moving the rook, for example), you can never get it back. Therefore, a single game can only reach five different configurations of the castling flags. To reach the maximum, we could do something like this: a) Get a position where all kings and rooks have not moved, and they are the only pieces in the first rank. b) One side advances a pawn two squares from the starting position, allowing an adjacent enemy pawn to capture en passant (1). c) The other side declines en passant and both sides return to the piece arrangement twice (+2). d) The sides triangulate and return to the arrangement twice with the other player moving (+2) e) A rook is moved, losing the right to castle at that side. The arrangement is repeated twice, and the sides triangulate again to reach the position two more times (+4). f) Step (e) can be repeated for the other three rooks (+12) That gives a total of 21 repetitions of the piece arrangement. Returning to a position takes four half-moves, while a triangulation five half-moves. The first time the arrangement is reached is by means of a pawn advance, so the fifty-move rule is reset. Of the other 20 revisits, 5 are achieved through triangulations, so we need to do 15x4 + 5x5 = 85 half-moves, which is less than the 100 half-moves from the fifty-move rule, so the game would not be drawn. The only thing left to check is whether it's possible to do the procedure without getting 3-fold repetition on an intermediate position (when you are moving the pieces to get back to the arrangement you want), but I guess with enough pieces and a sufficient number of squares for them to move, that should not be a problem. The definitive proof would be to construct a game, but I'm too lazy to do that :P
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Just my two cents here. This is an obvious improvement over a published run. It is interesting that it was done without a simulation. When you create a simulation you always end up approximating some things, and it might be the case that in your approximations you mistakenly removed an element that would enable an optimization. So far, some complaints have been targeted at HappyLee with respect to the context of his submission, which even if true, would not lead to the rejection of this movie. Also, it is clear that the authors took some time to put the movie at the entertainment level that was considered acceptable for this publication's history. The movie is not a "run to the right". About deliberate manipulation of entertainment votes, it's clear that the movie, if published, will get entertainment ratings, and if it is acceptable to give whatever number that people want without regards to their actual entertainment perception, the authors' movie will be rated based on something that is fake, and therefore meaningless. So, if the allegation that people are manipulating the votes for political reasons is true, the decision to cancel is justified, because then the site would claim to rate something for entertainment without in fact doing so. From my part, I think it's entirely unreasonable that every movie before this one had a given level of entertainment preferences and, somehow, coincidentally, after people stir a bit of controversy in the submission thread, the preferences of many users suddenly change and they don't find HappyLee's choices entertaining anymore. While everyone is allowed to exercise their subjectivity in rating something, no one deserves special treatment if the author has good reasons to believe the "rating" is bullshit also.
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Warp, you have already asked pretty much the same thing on April 13th, and two people answered you at the time. Care to explain what was not clear in the previous replies?
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There's absolutely no philosophy involved. If we accept, as you suggest, that the number is "more irrational" the harder it is to provide a rational approximation to it, then there is an infinite amount of numbers whose convergence properties are just the same as the golden ratio. Convergence properties only depend on asymptotic behavior (how the sequence behaves for large n). As long as its continued fraction is some finite ordering of numbers and after that 1,1,1,1,1,1,..., the convergence properties are the same. That's quite easy to prove if you know the definition of the limit of a sequence. So, Nickolas's remark is correct. Assuming the criteria in the videos you presented, there is no "second most irrational number", because an infinite amount of irrationals are tied on first place.
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Nice solution, Fractal! My original solution without calculus was very different, which is cool. First, suppose the triangle is acute. In this case, the angles A,B and C are between 0 and pi/2. At this range, the cotangent function is convex, and we can prove this easily using Jensen's inequality. From the convexity of cot, we have cot[(A+B+C)/3] = sqrt(3)/3 <= [cot(A)+cot(B)+cot(C)]/3 And from Jensen's inequality, the equality holds if and only if A=B=C, giving an equilateral triangle. The hard part involves proving that no obtuse triangle can satisfy the identity. Let A >= pi/2, rewrite the sum as S = cot(B) + cot(C) - cot(B+C) Since B and C are smaller than pi/2, we can use Jensen: cot[(B+C)/2] <cot>= 2*cot[(B+C)/2] - cot(B+C) We now write B+C = pi/2 - x, and use the formula for the sum of cotangents to find: S >= 2*(1+cot(x/2))/(1-cot(x/2)) + 1/cot(x) Now, 1/cot(x) >=0 and (1+cot(x/2))/(1-cot(x/2)) >= 2, so for an obtuse triangle, S >= 2 > sqrt(3). Therefore, no obtuse triangle can satisfy the identity, and the only solution is the equilateral one we found in the acute case. QED.
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One thing I would like to see included in the version differences rules is the scenario where the PAL version, which is usually released later, might include additional gameplay than the NTSC one. I don't know if something similar has happened on TASable systems, but at least on PS2 there's Final Fantasy X, where the PAL version has some additions, like Dark Aeons and some bosses having immunity to certain spells that they do not have on NTSC. I think these factors are important for choosing the version. In case we ever get PS2 TASes, in Final Fantasy X I don't think there's a lot of difference between PAL and NTSC if you do an Any% run, but if you go for 100%, the PAL version would have more content because of the Dark Aeon stuff. This is an important point, which the rules do not cover.
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I came up with a nice exercise today. Let A, B and C be the angles of a triangle, which satisfy the relation cot(A) + cot(B) + cot(C) = sqrt(3) Prove that this triangle is equilateral. Bonus points if you can do it without calculus!
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Then, why are movies that were canceled before the Vault existed did not qualify to become Vault publications? Technically, if you got rights on it, you could publish it even after cancellation, no? Or you added that claim on submissions only recently?
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I don't see any problem with allowing the submitter to replace files. If, at any point, he/she can withdraw the submission by canceling, it would make sense to give the power to allow the replacement as well, even if the reason is not good and will lead to rejection. Of course, if the movie is eventually accepted, that means the site now claims some CC-BY rights to the file, so it should not be replaceable. I don't agree with the suggestion on the delayed status, though. Delaying something influences the analysis process, and should be done with approval from the judge.
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You don't need a rule for convergence of infinite products, you can borrow the one for series. Do this for your both products: take the natural logarithm of each member. The property of the logarithm transforms the products into summations. Then, it is easy to see why the final result depends on the order. When the terms are less than 1, the log is negative, when they are more then one, the log is positive. So, this is an alternating series. If the series of the absolute value of the logs diverges, it is possible to rearrange the series to give any value at all. See here. This is precisely what happens to the Wallis product. When you take the log, the terms greater/smaller than 1 become -log(1-1/2n)/-log(1+1/2n), which is just +-1/2n for large n. So, for terms of the same sign, you are summing something that grows like the harmonic series. Since the harmonic series diverges, the Wallis product should converge only conditionally, and it should be possible to change the final value to anything using Riemann's construction.
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The 4-neighbor argument is sound. You can also modify the arguments to prove that every planar graph can be colored with five colors, proving something nontrivial. Perhaps even come up with an algorithm to color a graph using at most five colors, which might even be more efficient than those that color in four, since the proof of the four-color theorem is so complex.
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Don't worry if you can't find the mistake. I only found it because I know a little bit the story from the four-color theorem. This is essentially Kempe's flawed proof of 1879, it took mathematicians eleven years to find the mistake. It's very complicated for an April fools joke. I'll refer to the written version of the "proof" instead of the video, because it is easier. Look at Figure 2b. The counterexample follows when you flip the red-green ring to pass below (circling the b-y blocks below instead instead of the y block above). Similarly, you can flip the blue-green ring and make it pass above, with the r-y blocks inside instead of only the y block. That's possible when the green block attached to the blue block marked 'b' also touches the one marked 'r'. If the rings circle this way, it is possible that the yellow-blue chain attached to the 'y' block above touches the yellow-red chain attached to the 'y' block below. When you have a blue block from the first chain touching a red one from the second, you cannot swap colors as claimed, and the argument fails. If you cannot understand it with me writing, there's a drawing on Fig. 9 in this article. It's extremely tricky, no wonder it took so long to find the error :)
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Hello, Pokota. I am pretty sure that if I had posted on the thread, the complaint would be that I was trying to derail the thread of a wonderful run. I did not bother to post there because a former staff member already had (although not in a very civilized way) and the post was grued. And, to be honest I am not really interested as to why that particular run was allowed to go through. The word banned means that you should not do it. It can be because the runner is very nice and just did not know. It might be because mupen is the worst emulator ever and he tried to abuse it to get a faster time. From the institutional point of view, it doesn't matter. He's violating the rules anyway. It's also not relevant the reason you decided to ban it. There might be a good reason behind it, or you might just not like the name. Again, it doesn't matter. The important thing is that when you say something is banned, it in fact is.
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Nach wrote:
I will zealously defend our site against anyone who defies this or tries to make us buckle to outside forces.
You know, Nach, you've seen some share of unpopularity in these forums before. I don't think it's because you're a bad guy, it's just that you occasionally make some bad taste jokes (like stating in your location that you torture TASers and forumers) and that you like to judge controversial submissions, but I'm afraid I must press you on this. That looks like it was taken straight out of the soviet Pravda. Could you elaborate on what's morally wrong about suggesting that, maybe it's a better idea to avoid bowing to newcomer tastes in order to avoid institutional chaos? It seemed to me we were having a nice discussion here, and while people were not agreeing, we were making progress towards some understanding. Also, where does your self-appointed zealotry as defender of the faith come from? Do you have a PhD on entertainment business or you just happened to be around when Bisqwit was not having so much time to manage the site anymore?
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@Patashu (1) You have some good points. Sure, maybe it's because I'm getting older, but even then, I don't like the idea of surrendering control of the politics surrounding TAS movies to people who watch them for the first time. From my experience, most people who do any activities just for the flashy things end up leaving after a few months anyway. I am not really impressed that these TASes get lots of vies on Youtube (incidentally, I once asked on IRC whether views were a metric for "entertainment" and they denied, so I think not even this metric is good for the site administration). The answer for this is simple: they were designed to elicit this response from the audience. When you go for speed, you do not have the freedom to do that. No surprise that they end up more boring. Besides, what did these 232k people who watched it contributed to the community anyway? At least if they were paying we would have financial incentives to cater to them, but not even that. (2)
Patashu wrote:
To have an unambiguous set of rules that is set in stone, you have to handle corner cases and borderline cases with an iron fist, and the rules would have to never ever change over time
That's totally untrue. Rules for many things change a lot of the time. Look at soccer, for example. The offside rule was implemented because lots of games were just "get a guy very close to the goal post, make a long pass to him, and have him score". It was a rule change that made the game more competitive and was applied authoritatively, without things like "oh, this was such a beautiful goal, why have it invalidated because the guy was offside?".
Patashu wrote:
Well, maybe if you TAS Ocarina of Time 100% and it takes 5 years to complete, you too can get dinner and back massage of your choice :)
I think you don't have the experience of evaluating someone. This excuse is used every time. Every time a student/competitor says that he/she had worked extremely hard and it was annoying to see the effort rated badly. The thing is: it does not work that way, it really doesn't matter how much work you put on something. All it matters is if what you're doing conforms to the expectations the evaluator has set.
Patashu wrote:
RTA speedruns ban many things that TASes allow like L+D/U+R, do we now need to strike all TASes that use these from TASVideos?
That is a very complicated issue, and I think the specifics will be extremely difficult to work out. It is important, though, that the final decision is authoritative, enforceable and representative of all the communities involved. Once you start rejecting wrong things that people do for the right reasons, they start obeying, believe me. (3) The number of published movies is a very bad metric for overall relevance, mainly because of the Cobra effect. I know several people who have published hundreds of papers and their contribution to science is very close to zero. Something similar seems to be happening here. Some years ago the requirement to get something published were much more stringent, RPGs sometimes got axed just for being too long. If the videos keep growing, it can be simply because you are constantly bending the rules to make them pass. (4) Fair enough. It is fine to neglect the competitive aspect, especially if one is limited to watching stuff and just saying "I like it" or "I don't like it". Even then, it takes a lot of work to do the TASes, and people who do it will inevitably demand something in return. The recognition that you have, at some point, been the best, is a very low price to pay for the movies.
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Hello Patashu, I don't think the goals you enumerated are contradictory. Most of all, because of what makes a game interesting to run is not some vague notion of "entertainment", but how complex the entire thing is, and then it takes skill to come up with tricks (and in RTAs execute them) so that it makes sense to have some competition. That's why I am not particularly fond of runs that just do crazy stuff to draw attention. It does give publicity to the site, but as a competition oriented way, it's meaningless. Today, when I look at a TAS like Brain Age, for example, I simply think "hey, it's obvious that the algorithm the game uses to detect the drawings has flaws. why is it special that someone is using emulators to draw things to get around it?" Ultimately, an unambiguous set of rules that makes it possible to judge movies, and the definition of branches that are substantially different and have a minimal complexity is up to the community that runs the game, I don't see contradiction. Many people who vote on the runs have never made a TAS, and even some judges only worked at a subgenre and some experiences may not carry out to others. The way I see things working on the site is that there is a small subset of games that people want published no matter what, and people who run them get away unofficially by bullying until the rules get changed or interpreted on a different way, while in other cases the rules get enforced arbitrarily and there's no appeal. As Warp said, it's lazy to think we'll just sit here and people will continue feeding us "entertaining" runs. In the past the site used to provide services not found elsewhere, like allowing to discuss routes, and doing all the publication work, putting things on youtube to advertise the run. Now, if anyone wants to make a TAS public, each game has a discord server and they can stream it on Twitch and save the video. What's left for the site to do is basically a quality stamp, which is very nice, as it shows that the run was properly assessed before being made public. However, if this publication process does not accurately reflect quality, why bother with it?
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I think I have to side with Warp on this subject and say that his possibly cynical view is accurate. I am afraid the situation has deteriorated to a point where the site does not really serve as a way to keep records. Especially in RPGs, where there are many possible goals and many different routes and glitches you can choose to ban or not, I gradually stopped seeing the published movies as the fastest way to do things, but just that someone, at some point, decided to submit a TAS that was made the way he thought best, and somehow during the submission the staff convinced itself it was the proper way so that they wouldn't run out of movies to publish. In any case, I have been around for a long time and I never really understood what is actually meant by "entertainment". Judging by the movies recommended to newcomers, it seems to me it means clickbait superplays like the soccer and Family Feud TASes (and possibly the Brain Age and fighting game playarounds that had stars a few years ago), which have nothing to do with speedrunning at all and just exploit visually appealing bugs, and also runs of popular Nintendo franchises. This is in fact a general trend. The "entertainment" value of a run seems to correlate with the game's popularity, perhaps the notable exceptions are some platformers or action/adventure games that take less than 20 minutes to finish and are not so boring for people who never played them. About the branch rules, the site has been very inconsistent about what obsoletes what, resulting in arbitrary definitions that are not followed by the communities that speedrun the specific game. And I am not really counting all the mess with the rules about emulators and U vs J versions. For example, in my 2011 catch'em all Blue run it was mandatory to use SGB, even if it was slower. This delayed the publication of the run for many days because people could not agree whether they would apply aspect-correction to the encode or not. Then, later they declared SGB to be inaccurate and started pushing BizHawk, that only did normal GB, making it possible to obsolete the run by simply doing the same thing it already did, but on the newer emulator. Then, they introduced tiers, unobsoleted a 2007 run, then changed their mind and obsoleted it again. All of this would only make sense if you were trying to enforce the rules, until an N64 guy submits a run breaking the U vs J rule, after openly admitting it was just because he does not like the site, and people chicken out and accept it. Later, they just continue to use a banned emulator and they are granted an exception. I think it's time to accept that nobody in the speedrunning communities takes the site criteria seriously because they are too chaotic, and start negotiating with them on what's acceptable for each game. This will give runners more safety when working on TASes because it will define clearly what the site actually wants.
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feos wrote:
How many cases of judge power abuse at tasvideos can you list? Quote input pieces that didn't matter. Quote disagreement that you evidenced regarding sanity of the updated rules.
I am not sure if this is trolling on your part, but you are repeatedly ignoring what I am saying. I am not making any particular accusation against any member of the staff from this site. I am simply saying that usual procedures for something important such a rule change were not followed, namely stating clearly that the text needs updating and invite the community to discuss. I have been a judge in competitions and I have seen two issues. The first was that one judge arrived at the hotel drunk in the company of one of the female competitors after leaving a party. This case was followed by an accusation which caused him to be immediately dismissed and his grades invalidated. Another one was when the coaches complained that some judges were looking at the smartphones during the competitor's presentation. My objection is more like the second case. It is not a grave accusation, but just as it is not acceptable to ignore a presentation you should evaluate and look at your smartphone during it, it is also not acceptable to state in a verdict that you changed the rules. All these things make it look like you're not doing your work properly. In any case, at that time all judges agreed that using smartphones was not appropriate and there were no further issues. Coming up with lame excuses and ask repeatedly irrelevant questions to discredit the complainer does not help your case and just gives the impression that you don't want to be accountable for what you are doing. It saddens me that you, as a judge, do not recognize the importance of procedures.
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feos wrote:
Is TASVideos suddenly a country?
Indeed, it is not. However, I should tell you that I have never seen any serious institution that gives someone simultaneously the power to enforce and change the rules without some due process, which you refer later as "those formalities". You can of course disagree, indeed a member seems to be discontent with democratic ideas. In any case, if you don't sympathize with it either, I suggest that you specify how seriously you take your own rules in the Front Page, it would save the members the trouble to figure out how things really work.
feos wrote:
Is it just your thoughts, or some approved set of meta-rules TASVideos has been obeying for all these years? Because from what I've seen, this is exactly what happened, just without imposing all those formalities you pretend we have.
As I said previously, it was my expectation for any place that wishes to be taken seriously, which I assumed were commonplace. Also, most of the time it's the practice of formalizing that stops abuses. For example, I was in a student union where there were elections, and it was required that the exact date and time of the election should be published in a given manner that made it easy for all students to see, and that it should stay there for a given period, because there were cases where the guys in power would suddenly say that the election was the next day at 2 in the morning, and only his friends would go to vote. After the formalism, it stopped.
feos wrote:
Request it from whom? Moth is an admin and a senior judge.
From the community, why not? If the input does not matter, why don't you request that the Workbench be abolished, while we're at it? Just tell people to send emails to the judges and things show up published.
feos wrote:
It took so long to fix the rules because there was disagreement among staff members (and among users). Here, no disagreement was present. Do you disagree with the updated rules? Do you think the movie would have been judged differently by the older rules?
Abscence of disagreement does not imply agreement. And also, could you clarify to me why you think discussions in IRC are a transparent way of discussing rule changes? I will not comment on the specifics of the judging of this movie, because in my eyes it was just a bad decision from Moth to do it the way he did, and my points have only to do with the "formalities" that you don't seem to like.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (42)
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The issue is: a judge does not change the law, never. This violates the principle of separation of powers. Although you are entitled to your interpretation of the rules (a good thing), another, very different is to change them to state your interpretation, because that imposes your interpretation further down. To me the issue is not obvious. If someone accuses me of something and I defend myself saying I did not break the rules and a moderator tells me he updated them and I am banned. Essentially he's saying he can do anything, for any reason. What I have think you should have done is state that the current text is not appropriate and would make you cast a bad decision, and request the change explicitly. Then, only after theach following discussion, if the staff approves in a transparent way, give the verdict.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
I read a bit of the Math Blaster thread and it's the exact opposite of what you're implying it is. Essentially, a judge decides something and people protest after many pages demanding to reconsider the rule. Then the rules get changed, the dicussion is acknowledged in the change, the decision retracted and the judge casts a new verdict. No problems in the process. Here no one was complaining that the rule is messed up and it gets changed with no mention to any discussion at all in the first decision, so I don't think the case you're referring to applies here.
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