Well, as long as it gets 210 rupees it's good, but I can see how that would be faster. Certainly worth a try. Also, if it doesn't lose any time, there's no harm in getting more than 210 rupees.
So, did you ever test whether it was faster to do stories with grandma or just dance with the scarecrow 5 times?
Since we cannot do any better than having the SoDT right after the Zora Pot game, I suggest we be ambitious and play it right then. then one of three situations happens.
--We get to the ranch after the last possible second. OK, that'll require some redoing, but we'll know exactly what time to play the SoDT, and we'll know that absolutely no time is wasted.
--We get to the ranch at or slightly before the last possible second. No problems.
--We get to the ranch with a fair amount of time before the last possible second. Since we can't play the SoDT any earlier, we'll just have to wait a bit. We could get some rupees from the bushes in Termina Field or something. Heck, if we can get enough from the bushes, we can forgo some of the later rupee sources, saving time in the long run.
So, I think that's advantageous, provided SL is okay with the possibility of having to redo this part of the game if he's not fast enough.
OK, so I tested it myself, and got to the rock in front of the ranch at 2:30 by playing the SoDT after hitting the owl in Ikana. However, I did the swamp fairly suboptimally (I didn't feel like optimizing it >_>), so we can take an hour of game time off that. Now, going from the Zora Pots game to the Ikana Owl definitely takes more than 1:00, so the first SoDT should probably go before the wrong warp glitch, but after the Zora Pot game. Where in that interval it should go, I don't know.
Grunz, I await your TAS. But I strongly suspect you left the Inverted Song of Time on.
Can anyone tell me, how to encode the m64 file?
the TAS will suck for sure, but hey, it's my first one :D
First, start playing th movie file. Then, go to "Start AVI Capture"; it should be under the same menu as starting/stopping recording. Then, when you get to the end, select "Stop AVI Capture".
I'm starting to wonder where Grunz got that time, too. I did a quick test run and it looked as though i wouldn't get to the Ranch until midnight.
Grunz, you didn't make the mistake of playing with time slowed, did you? Because that would do it.
Anyways, I'll try to give this a shot when I get the time.
D'oh!
I just found the solution for our time-problem. It's so simpel!
We go to pinnacle rock two times anyway, right? Well there are only 3 eggs there, so the first time we go there, we only need one bottle and we allready got one pretty early in the game from the witches.
True we will praobably loose the time for one or two warpsongs, but this route should still be way faster (considering that getting the goron mask still takes some time) than the other.
Yes, I think this is probably best. 2 SoSes is about 45 seconds. I'm pretty sure the Beaver Race takes longer than 4:45. Additionally, the Beaver Races don't have that convenient warp to CT to buy more chus.
A trip to Pinnacle Rock adds ~2:00 to the game clock. Now, the Zora Pot game is closed at night. This is a problem if we SoDT immediately. So, if we SoDT after the Zora Pot game, and go to Pinnacle Rock, the question is, what time will it be at the ranch?
the first song of double time should be played directly at the beginning of the 2nd cycle
we have to arrive at the ranch as late as possible
we have to think about something different, too.
we have no goron mask and gilded sword, so what are the best strats for 1st wizrobe battle, odolwa, the pirate's battle, light arrow battle and the bow battle
I used a strategy in my testings for the bow fight, that is only 1-2 seconds slower than using a deku stick or goron mask
in the new route aren't that convenient places to get sticks anymore, so what strats are the best ones?
We can still get deku sticks from the pot outside Woodfall, which nets us 2. If we manipulate some sticks from the mad scrubs (I think we can do that), we can get 5--enough for 1st Wizrobe and the Lizafos.
Odolwa will use the spin attack method. It will just take 7 spins instead of 3.
Pirate Battle will be done as a Zora. Stun->jumpslash.
Garo Master will take 7 jumpslashes, but he's about the same with or without Deku nuts.
EDIT: OK, I need to know what time it would be when we get to the ranch if we play the SoDT immediately upon starting the cycle. Would it be significantly before 2:30?
The route has gone back into question. I need to know the above before I can tell what to do.
btw. @petrie
Why do the bay temple so late in the game? On the way there you walk by the Zora bottle game, which could provide much needed rupees for the rest of the run.
well, the original reason was that so we could pay for it with the rupees from Stone Tower. But we won't have as good an opportunity in Stone Tower to get said rupees now, so the point is moot. Actually, we could reduce the initial rupees by 10 this way and save a Song of Soaring.
First cycle stuff (210r)
Buy bomb bag +20c (20c) (80r)
Get into North Bay (19c)
Get Zora Mask, hit Owl statue, go to South Bay
Zora Pot game(170r)
*Song of Double Time should go somewhere in here*
Go to Fairy Fountain
Hover to Ikana (4c)
Hit Ikana owl, go to witches' hut
Get bottle
Kill Big Octos with Zora boomerangs
Get Sonata
Get Song of Soaring
Get Bow (0c)
Warp out to CT
Buy 10c, head to Ranch (10c) (130r)
Get Ranch Bottle (6c)
Warp to North Bay
Get Hookshot+2 Zora Eggs (2c)
Warp back and deposit them at the laboratory
Go back for the other 2 Zora eggs (230r) (0c)
Warp back to CT
Buy 20c more (150r) (20c)
Warp to North Bay, do Pinnacle Rock
Go to GBT, do Zora Pots again (240r)
Do GBT (0c)
Warp to CT, buy 20c (160r) (20c)
Warp to Woodfall
Wrong Warp to Snowhead (5c)
Complete Snowhead
Warp to CT, buy 20c more (80r)
Warp to Ikana, climb Stone Tower
Warp to CT, buy 20c more (0r)
Warp to Stone Tower, complete temple
*get 80r in STT, Warp to CT, buy 20c more*
Warp to Woodfall, complete temple
Back to CT, Moon
Now, the second SODT should be used just after Night of the 2nd day. When should I put the first one?
As before, the starred line is optional, depending on whether we skip the Woodfall Boss Key.
I doubt the Beaver races will come out faster, but you're welcome to try. They're slower than the extra trip to Pinnacle Rock, though, and I'd bet they're slower than the Ranch, too.
Yeah, we probably wont bother with the Zora Cape Owl statue. Too much of a detour, as mentioned.
I thought about it, it was just includet in the "hoover time". :D
But on the other hand: You should be able to water-jump with the Zora to the nearest platform and from there it shouldn't take to much bombs. Maybe you can even staricase your way with normal bombs.
they're for rerecording-v2. But it's not hard to find the Y velocity. Just have link jump off a high cliff and let him reach maximum speed. then have MHS search for the float value -30. The X and Z velocities should be next to it.
Well, as long as we're discovering things, I found the speed addresses in MM.
X velocity: 00CD38C0
Y velocity: 00CD38C4
Z velocity: 00CD38C8
Note that Y is the vertical direction. You are facing in the X direction when your yellow map arrow points right, and in the Z direction when the map arrow points down.
Notable things to come of this are speed values. I'll make a full report later, but the most important thing is this
Goron Spike Roll: 27
Superslide: 27
fascinating, isn't it?
Now, it should be noted that these addresses give merely a readout of the velocities. I have yet to locate the actual velocities in memory. So you won't be able to, say, make a levitation cheat by locking the Y address above to +27. Modifying the addresses seems to have no effect on Link.
Huh...I didn't think of that. Well, let's see how it stacks up.
Getting rupees wouldn't take too much time, as we'd nicely pass the Zora Pots game on the way to the fountain, immediately paying for the bombchus used to hover. Of course, we lose 2 warps (1 into Ikana and 1 back into the Great Bay) and the time it takes to get from the GBT owl statue to Ikana, plus the time it takes to do that stuff in Ikana (probably :30). So I'm estimating time loss of about 3:30.
Going to Ikana takes a good 2:00 at least, and going to the swamp is about 1:30. So we're about even here. However, we also save 10 bombchus by not hovering over the skull kid cutscene. Also, the above times were gathered from Mukki's run, which had the Goron Mask, which made these particular areas faster. Using this alternate route, we get...
First cycle stuff (220r)
Buy bomb bag +20c (20c) (90r)
Get into North Bay (19c)
Get Zora Mask, hit Owl statue, go to South Bay
Zora Pot game, Song of Double Time (180r)
Go to Fairy Fountain
Hover to Ikana (4c)
Hit Ikana owl, go to witches' hut
Get bottle
Kill Big Octos with Zora boomerangs
Get Sonata
Get Song of Soaring
Get Bow (0c)
Warp out to CT
Buy 10c, head to Ranch (10c) (140r)
Get Ranch Bottle (6c)
*Song of Double Time when dawn comes*
Warp to North Bay
Get Hookshot+2 Zora Eggs (2c)
Warp back and deposit them at the laboratory
Go back for the other 2 Zora eggs (240r) (0c)
Warp back to CT
Buy 20c more (160r) (20c)
Warp to Woodfall
Wrong Warp to Snowhead (5c)
Complete Snowhead
Warp to CT, buy 20c more (80r)
Warp to Ikana, climb Stone Tower
Warp to CT, buy 20c more (0r)
Warp to Stone Tower, complete temple, get a lot of rupees while in there
*Warp to CT, buy 20c more*
Warp to Woodfall, complete temple
Warp to CT, buy 20c more, Warp to North Bay
Do Pinnacle Rock
Get NWBN
Go to South Bay
Do GBT
Back to CT, Moon
starred line depends on whether we do the Woodfall boss key skip or not, and thus determines how many rupees to get in STT.
So, if 220r is significantly faster than 270r in the first cycle, perhaps we should use this? Ugh, I hate trying to figure out whether massively different routes that differ by seconds in total time are faster or not.
The second Song of Double Time could be held off to immediately after night of the second day or immediately after dawn of the third day. It's best to play it in a place where the "dawn/night of the x day" message doesn't cause a cutscene.
EDIT: As ZFG so kindly reminded me, since we have the Zora mask, we can just boomerang the Big Octos.
I can do it in 25, but that seems to be the minimum.
You need not worry about this Swordless. We already have the maximum number of chus for Stone Tower, so it can't affect the route.
To clarify: We're getting the rest of the 270 rupees from the field (after getting the chest in the inn), right? I'm about to go on the rupee run, but I can't remember if we decided that the Deku Playground was better.
I don't think we decided that; I remember coming to the conclusion that it should be tested.
Also, there's one more thing I should probably mention. One of the egg tanks in the fortress has a 20r chest. Since we'll be right there anyways, if it's significantly faster to get, say 250r on the first cycle, we should probably go with that. Lastly, we can manipulate a few incidental rupees; 5-10 could probably be done without too much trouble, though I wouldn't count on any more.
Let's see here
-time lost from not having Goron Mask in Swamp: <1 min
-time lost from Pinnacle Rock instead of Goron Race: ~1 min
-time lost in Snowhead from not having Goron Mask: ~1 min
-time gained from not getting Goron Mask: ~6 min
So...we should have about 3 min to spare to cover any other things. I just can't imagine any other time losses adding up to that. Not switching masks can probably make up for a lot of time, and superslides and extended superslides reduce the time loss even further. We don't even use the Goron Mask that much aside from the things listed above.
ok, we have to drop the idea of getting dampe's bottle. we wouldn't have the hookshot at this point, because we have to visit pirate's fortress with 2 bottles.
we would have to warp away after getting the bottle, but then it wouldn't be faster anymore, I think
Well, that pretty much ensures that the graveyard bottle won't work out. It'd add another 30s at least.
Yes, we can wrong warp from the Great Bay fairy fountain to the Ikana one, but that'd require another 20c. The graveyard bottle wouldn't be much of a time saver in any case, and getting the extra rupees for the chus would probably put it over the edge.
On the upside, that means the route I posted earlier is final.
the whole thing is combinated with ikana access, so have to compare everything like this:
way to ranch + aliens + ikana access vs. my whole video
the loading zone is pretty small, but it should be no problem, I think ;)
I know; I took that into account.
And on an unrelated note, Jabo's Wireframe mode does not render the collision surfaces of rooms, just the textures. Such a shame.
I'll see what I can do with this; fewer bombchus is a given, but how many fewer depends on a few things. Hopefully the loading zone for the grave extends pretty far below the ground. Obviously, your manipulation of the Poe pieces could be better. Two on the ground and one up above is better. I don't think three on the ground is possible, though.
The Ranch Bottle takes 4 minutes, while your video takes 5:30. I might be able to strip a minute and a half off that time, but I wouldn't count on it.
The most surefire way is to use Utility of Time look through the scene files for ones that contain multiple rooms. You can Wrong Warp with any scene that contains multiple rooms that have different loading zones or warpers.
Also, Jabo's 1.6 has a wireframe mode? I must try this out. Would make navigating unloaded rooms so much easier.
So if you manage to skip the scarecrow that should save almost 2 minutes assuming you can get a bug from somewhere relatively close to the path you're taking. Where would this be? Is there one in the Kakariko cave that you're jumping in to reset cuccoo's? (Can unfortunately not check myself at this moment).
There is, but we don't have a bottle at that point. There are some under a rock behind the Skulltula house, though, which should be just as good.
BTW, if we skip the scarecrow's song, do we also skip the Hookshot?
I don't suppose it would have been any faster to go to the castle from Lake Hylia without taking the owl? You lose the drawbridge lowering time, but you gain the owl dialogue and flying cutscene. Of course, getting the the Castle is not exactly a short process, so the time lost going that way may more than make up for it.
Do you? I thought you could technically roll under his legs - as long as you can get to his tail and hit it, you can damage him enough to get the Master Sword. It was either that, or as long as you can actually hit him with anything that can reach his head (Hookshot, etc.), you can get close enough to land a hit. It'll only stun him for a split second, but it should work. If my source is true.
