For one thing, it's important to note that while it's possible to make a movie with a really complicated set of criteria (e.g. "uses glitch X but not glitch Y, and warps past level P but not level Q"), such movies are highly likely to be rejected because they have an arbitrary goal.
Furthermore, it is (obviously) still possible for a new movie to obsolete an old one. For example, suppose the new Foo Glitch is found for game Bar, and a run is made; then instead of renaming all existing runs of Bar to "no Foo Glitch", it is likely that this new run will obsolete an existing run (and that the other existing runs are open to being obsoleted by a faster run with the foo glitch, if and when it is made).
The branch name is not, and was never intended to be, an enumeration of every single glitch or trick that isn't used in that branch. Furthermore, it is not the goal of the site to have a separate branch for each possible permutation of glitches ("A but not B", "A and B but not C", "C but not A" and so forth).
I might sound odd, but that thing I was talking about (if you start calling out the avoided glitch, do it consistently) is still what I consider wrong. I mean, with the system when you skip the label for the fastest run, you will anyway meet one of 2 problems: being inconsistent and unintuitive, or being absurdly precise.
So if the glitched to any% transformation is still being forced, I request to avoid both problems the most. Then I might be considered satisfied (not happy).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I cleaned Super Metroid
Changed instance of less glitched to simply "14%" since like "70 star" the context is well known (and of course it is obvious that it is less glitched if the % completed is higher than the glitched movie). Changed "lowest ingame timer" to "ingame time" since it is implied that we aim for the latest time.
I consider the project of renaming rather done now. Most of the weird labels have been cleaned up and I see no problematic games (aside from hypothetical battletoads movies that may never be made or publsihed and we can cross that bridge when we get to it)
Btw, Thank you very much coolkirby, you did a lot of work for this and I greatly appreciate it.
Any other games that still need looking at?
Alright, after what was done to Super Metroid, I can try making up a guideline for branching that wasn't thought of before Moons appeared.
1. Branch label must reflect what makes a movie unique over other branches (not over the fastest branch alone).
2. Branch label must be clear and short. Once it becomes ridiculous/long, move details to the publication description (known as scrimpy's trick).
3. Once you see what can't be moved, leave it in the label, still keeping in mind point 1.
PS: Use precedents.
Next: What about capitalizing? I don't think it's needed unless something internally capitalized is written.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alright, after what was done to Super Metroid, I can try making up a guideline for branching that wasn't thought of before Moons appeared.
4. The "world record" fastest branch gets no branch label.
5. Generally speaking it would be good to label branches after what other goals they set beyond completing the game (e.g. "all gems", "no warping", "best ending", "no out of bounds" etc); except of course where such names would become overly complex (e.g. the hypothetical "no foo glitch, no bar glitch, no xyzzy, no tapdancing" runs mentioned earlier in the thread).
I Have No stROng OpiNiOn on capitalizaton, really.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Looks great! Good work, feos.
On the capitalization issue, I think branch names should be lowercase unless they describe something that's capitalized in-game (like "Replay Mode" and "Jump Game").
adelikat wrote:
Btw, Thank you very much coolkirby, you did a lot of work for this and I greatly appreciate it.
You're very welcome! Happy to help!
Spikestuff wrote:
That branch name was decided on by a group of actual SMW TASers, and it seems to solve the naming problem we were having before. Why should it be changed?
That branch name was decided on by a group of actual SMW TASers, and it seems to solve the naming problem we were having before. Why should it be changed?
The name works for me, but the movie description might be expanded a bit to explain how this is different from the world record branch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Taking into account SM64 and Super Metroid cases (and some others), it should be "0%".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
[1504] SMS Sonic Chaos "best ending" by mike89 in 14:28.55 should have a branch name of either "100%" or "best ending", right? I assume an any% run would be one that doesn't collect the Chaos Emeralds.
And should all movies tagged "Best ending" have a branch name that includes "best ending" if they don't already?
As Warp stated, if a movie has a goal that disallows it to be the fastest branch (except for difficulty setting), it should have a label. So, for MMX1, full completion doesn't disallow it being fastest possible, so the label is omitted, otherwise it isn't. This way, once the any% run appears for a game that already has the full completion branch, you don't need to relabel anything.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
[2528] DS Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow by mtbRc in 03:30.71 doesn't have anything in its submission text about achieving the best ending, and the glitchy route used appears to be the fastest way to complete the game. Does this one need a label?
And some that don't need to be labeled for the following reasons:
Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening runs don't need a label because the best ending is obtained by not dying, which is the fastest way to beat the game anyway.
In Kaze Kiri: Ninja Action, the bad ending is slower.
In Ninja Spirit, the true ending always appears after beating the mode played in the movie.
Keen 5 doesn't need "best ending", since you get the best ending by destroying the secret fuse in the secret stage, which is the fastest way to clear that level. Getting the regular ending would be slower.
I'm pretty sure the "bad ending" isn't even considered beating the game. It's more like a glorified game over.
(This also goes for quite a few other Castlevania games, by the way, such as all three of the DS Castlevania games/runs with the main character.)
Also, in Symphony of the Night, I believe the actual "best" ending is reached if you get over 196% completion, so it's not a valid branch/tag here anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Here are the graphics. The bad ending has the same "castle exploding" sequence as the good one, just different dialogue.
You are correct that the best ending is 196% (which also looks the same as the bad ending, but with different dialogue).
Joined: 8/14/2009
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Radiant wrote:
Here are the graphics. The bad ending has the same "castle exploding" sequence as the good one, just different dialogue.
It's not just about what the ending consists of. In some cases, such as this one, it's also about how it's accessed.
Pokémon Gold/Silver is another example: defeating the Elite Four leads to the same credits sequence defeating Red does, yet it's the latter that is universally considered actually beating the game (at least, in a speedrunning sense). Here, since it's triggered differently (and much earlier in the plot than it's actually supposed to happen in the plot), it's a different ending, and because it doesn't actually properly conclude the game/plot (the game just kinda stops in the middle of the plot in these cases), it's not considered by players/speedrunners to actually be an "ending" as much as it is a glorified game over, like I said.
Also, even if only the dialogue is different, that still makes it a different ending, right?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
