Topic by nyarlaBROtep

Posted: 10/23/2014 7:53 AM

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nyarlaBROtep

Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States

RachelB wrote:

I have a really hard time believing it's a hard question. Wii version is definitely faster by a ton.

Who knows, it probably is from a few things I have seen, but I am going to just do it on GC.

Posted: 10/23/2014 3:28 PM

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Well, sure. Wii version is faster by a ton. But we were talking about gameplay alone. And there are some significant downsides to Wii version, namely, bomb-rocks. This significantly affects the final boss fight, and can make killing certain enemies slower. Another big difference with Wii version is you can't really c-stick throw as effectively, so you can't throw Pikmin quite as fast as you can on GC. And there's much more RNG than just spawn locations. Nectar luck, the Snagret fight, the Breadbug. Depending on if you decide to do DS on day 4 or 5, you may have to worry about Snitchbug locations. Maybe more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Posted: 10/23/2014 5:24 PM

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PiePusher11

Former player

Joined: 1/5/2013
Posts: 31

Oh, and this isn't about GC vs. Wii version, but another thing you need to keep in mind for making a TAS of this game is part-collection cutscene skipping. If a text box shows up on the exact frame that a part is collected, it comes up during the cutscene. and the trigger for returning to gameplay appears to be scrolling through a text box. So for a TAS, ideally you'll be skipping all part-collection cutscenes (except Main Engine, which appears to be unskippable). Under very specific circumstances, you can even skip the additional cutscene that plays upon collecting the 5th, 12th, and 29th part (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCCUReBWc3o)

Posted: 10/23/2014 5:28 PM

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nyarlaBROtep

Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States

Yeah, I saw the video for the scene skipping, so as long as I am near a piece during the right time, it will be skipped.

Posted: 10/23/2014 6:33 PM

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RachelB

She/Her

Player (127)

Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579

Even just from gameplay alone it's going to be much faster, just because you can move around faster, throw pikmin further, more accurately, and with instant aiming, without having to face the direction you want to throw them. It'll be a lot faster and a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 10/23/2014 7:28 PM

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PiePusher11

Former player

Joined: 1/5/2013
Posts: 31

"As long as I am near a piece during the right time, it will be skipped." You should probably try to route it so that you'll ALWAYS be near a piece at the right time. Why do you say you can move around faster? Is there something I don't know about, about Olimar's walking speed in the different versions? I haven't really played the Wii version much, but I don't think you can throw Pikmin farther either, I thought it maxed out at a certain distance (which I assumed was the maximum distance you could throw on GC). I might be wrong about that, though.

Posted: 10/23/2014 7:43 PM

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nyarlaBROtep

Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States

PiePusher11 wrote:

"As long as I am near a piece during the right time, it will be skipped." You should probably try to route it so that you'll ALWAYS be near a piece at the right time.

Yeah, I know I will probably route it, but not 100% sure if I can be every single piece. I am sure I can though, still learning the program and such so got a while before I try anything major. Might look into that Cheat Engine that Patashu talked about. See if it can help at all.

Posted: 10/24/2014 12:25 AM

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RachelB

She/Her

Player (127)

Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579

PiePusher11 wrote:

"As long as I am near a piece during the right time, it will be skipped." You should probably try to route it so that you'll ALWAYS be near a piece at the right time. Why do you say you can move around faster? Is there something I don't know about, about Olimar's walking speed in the different versions? I haven't really played the Wii version much, but I don't think you can throw Pikmin farther either, I thought it maxed out at a certain distance (which I assumed was the maximum distance you could throw on GC). I might be wrong about that, though.

Yes, his walking speed is faster on wii, and yes, you can throw pikmin quite a bit further.

Posted: 10/24/2014 4:00 AM

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nyarlaBROtep

Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States

Okay, so I have been messing around with Dolphin and have actually finished Day 1, just seeing ho it would go. Question is, when I rewatch it, with sound on, it is kinda choppy and lags at parts. Nothing dsync's at all, but with the number of frames I have recorded, it shouldn't take nearly as long as it does when I watch it. It should only take about 7 1/2 minutes from power to engine cut scene. But it takes about 9 when watching. My guess is that it is just the settings I have for recording without dsync and switching a few things could fix it. Is that the case?

Posted: 10/24/2014 4:01 AM

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Zanoab

Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 174

nyarlaBROtep wrote:

Okay, so I have been messing around with Dolphin and have actually finished Day 1, just seeing ho it would go. Question is, when I rewatch it, with sound on, it is kinda choppy and lags at parts. Nothing dsync's at all, but with the number of frames I have recorded, it shouldn't take nearly as long as it does when I watch it. It should only take about 7 1/2 minutes from power to engine cut scene. But it takes about 9 when watching. My guess is that it is just the settings I have for recording without dsync and switching a few things could fix it. Is that the case?

What is the framerate when you watch it? It might be that your computer isn't fast enough to play at full speed.

Posted: 10/24/2014 4:14 AM

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nyarlaBROtep

Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States

Zanoab wrote:

What is the framerate when you watch it? It might be that your computer isn't fast enough to play at full speed.

It jumps a bit, like the opening menu it is about 15fps, but then the opening cut scene it plays it at 30fps. Then back at game play it is about, 20 to 24ish. I would say, not home currently to look for certain. Could it be my computer? I have a pretty decent one.

Posted: 10/24/2014 6:23 AM

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RachelB

She/Her

Player (127)

Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579

Yes, it's your computer.

Posted: 10/25/2014 3:09 PM

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Espyo

Joined: 6/7/2008
Posts: 123
Location: Portugal

PiePusher11 wrote:

But on the Wii version, in addition to the cursor being disconnected from your movement, you can also skip the end-of-day cutscenes, saving around 34 seconds per day (a little under 3 minutes over a 6-day run)

Actually, you can skip the end-of-day cutscenes in the European version of the GameCube game. Over the last few months, I tried documenting all I could about the differences between all versions of the game, both region and console-wise, as well as some other technical tidbits of the sort. I put them up on the wiki, so these pages will be very helpful (even if sometimes incomplete):

We also have pages about glitches and such on the wiki. Like PiePusher said, TASing Pikmin is NOT easy. You need to know every little thing about the game, if you want an optimized run. I'm no speedrunner, but I know the ins-and-outs of the game considerably well, so I'll try my best to help!

I'm Espyo from the SRB2 Forums. Current project: A Pikmin fan engine, Pikifen

Posted: 10/25/2014 3:28 PM

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andypanther

Any

Former player

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1095
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

I'm pretty sure Pikmin is one of the few first party games for the console (I think there are only two, the other being Luigis Mansion), where the European version is not in PAL 60. This would make it very bad for TASing.

Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.

Posted: 11/11/2014 3:49 PM

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kirbymastah

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 84

erm I personally wouldn't trust anything on that wiki if I were you, there have been quite a few things wrong. Take everything there with a grain of salt (i.e. white pikmin do not attack faster <_< )

Posted: 11/11/2014 4:14 PM

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jlun2

Skilled player (1707)

Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"

Espyo wrote:

We also have pages about glitches and such on the wiki. Like PiePusher said, TASing Pikmin is NOT easy. You need to know every little thing about the game, if you want an optimized run. I'm no speedrunner, but I know the ins-and-outs of the game considerably well, so I'll try my best to help!

I think maybe making a Games resource page here to document TAS-related tricks would be helpful.

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 11/15/2014 5:52 PM

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Espyo

Joined: 6/7/2008
Posts: 123
Location: Portugal

kirbymastah wrote:

erm I personally wouldn't trust anything on that wiki if I were you, there have been quite a few things wrong. Take everything there with a grain of salt (i.e. white pikmin do not attack faster <_< )

What? That's ridiculous! ~~Where did you read that?~~ Removed it. You know, just because one thing is wrong doesn't mean the entire wiki is crap. This wiki was built over the course of nine years. The information within is accurate. Of course the occasional slip-up exists; remember: wikis are places anybody can edit.

I'm Espyo from the SRB2 Forums. Current project: A Pikmin fan engine, Pikifen