1 2 3
6 7
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
That's not so dirty. I'm ashamed to tell you that I tried hard to improve it, but it looks like it's just impossible to.
Well. My technique was to do all the obvious fast things. Can I do this action any earlier? Once the answer was "no" on when I can spawn the flying enemy, the first wall jump, and the boss trigger, and my shot could hit the enemy, I said "good enough" and packed things to go. So there aren't any less obvious sorts of improvements to make there? Curious. If anyone wants a look at Stage 8 now, I synced it in. userfile #38610267158570522 Deleted a frame on entry (animation frame rule), and added 4 frames prior to boss door (dialog frame rule). I do this because I think anything we do in Stage 8 will likely sync pretty well with whatever improvements we find in intro.
USERFILE: Zook Man ZX4 - Stuck in Stage 8 once again. wrote:
Well, we did the boss skip in intro. Nifty. Stage 8 syncs like a dream. Except the boss. The dialog frame rule is out of sync by 4 frames now, which is to be expected after the animation 4-frame rule locked in our entry. I have consumed these 4 frames waiting at the door instead, so the boss syncs too. This has the 3 frames for taking the second ladder route through Segment 3 in Stage 8. We need another frame, and some way to carry these three all the way to the end (they are discarded at the ladder after miniboss), and we'll beat another frame rule. Doing this in case someone wants to poke about Stage 8 instead of intro all the time.
Editor, Player (67)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041
Miniboss skip is possible in stage 6, but you have to set up a miniboss state first: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/38617387944859351 EDIT: This may not be useful in a run, actually. Based on Spikestuff's document, the shortest time to reach a miniboss is stage 5 at about 1500 frames. It takes about 1800 frames to reach the stage 6 miniboss without any segment skips. This looks good, but the number of frames lost to screen transitions when entering and leaving a stage to set up the segment skip is over 500. You also have to add the time needed to get the helmet upgrade. So it looks like this will lose time rather than save it. Furthermore, the enemy I used for the skip seemingly cannot spawn during normal gameplay. Its spawn coordinates are (144, 48). Based on my previous tests, the camera needs to reach a Y-coordinate between 80 and 88 to spawn it. However, the transition to the next segment is triggered when the camera Y-coordinate reaches 96, which is lower in the segment than the enemy. There aren't any enemies to spawn in the segment immediately before the miniboss.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
So, I've noticed that in level 8 is used a trick to make despawn two different enemies. I wonder if that would be possible as well for the green enemies with shield in segment 9. Those are two enemies perfectly overlapping, and one of them is already killed in the current WIP movie, so making despawn at least one of them would save some frames. About the boss fight, I still didn't tried anything. Edit: I couldn't improve the boss fight. By the way, there is a place where I managed to save 1 landing lag frame, but then it caused to have another soon ahead. Maybe there is something that could be done about it, I've tried but I'm not sure. It's during segment 2 of level 8: Movie #38635348763866312
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Experienced player (883)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
As for stage 8, the only thing I could ever think of was the enemy that appears just before the upgrade capsule. I recall we delay about 4-5 frames after the capsule to ensure he's out of the way, but I always thought there might be a way to manipulate him a bit better. I was never successful, but something to think about. edit
Dacicus wrote:
This may not be useful in a run, actually. Based on Spikestuff's document, the shortest time to reach a miniboss is stage 5 at about 1500 frames.
Does this include the stages that we did not have a powerup for? For instance, if we got the flame powerup from stage 1 and then just re-entered stage 1 now with the ability to flame dash. Also we had neither flame dash, nor ground dash for stage 8, or a powerful enough weapon to bypass certain enemies effectively. I think it took roughly 2000 frames to reach the boss to stage 8 without any of those (I didnt count the frames exactly). That being said I still don't think it's possible but just throwing it out there.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (169)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
If only we could re-enter the intro stage.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Editor, Player (67)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041
Exonym wrote:
Dacicus wrote:
This may not be useful in a run, actually. Based on Spikestuff's document, the shortest time to reach a miniboss is stage 5 at about 1500 frames.
Does this include the stages that we did not have a powerup for? For instance, if we got the flame powerup from stage 1 and then just re-entered stage 1 now with the ability to flame dash.
No, that only includes what the teams actually did in the submitted runs. Re-entering stage 1 after getting the flame dash is an idea. In order to save time in stage 6 with the segment skip, however, I estimate that you would have to get through the first segment of stage 1 in 500-600 frames with flame dashing. The second segment is almost entirely falling, so that's capped by the vertical falling speed. EDIT: The first segment of stage 1 is about 2300 pixels long. At 3 pixels per frame with flame dashing, it would still take too long.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Expert player (3535)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US
It's possible with the mini boss skip that doing level 7 first is slightly faster over all then stage 8 first. It probably would be pretty close, at least worth looking into if a serious attempt to optimize this is being made.
Active player (308)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Alyosha wrote:
It's possible with the mini boss skip that doing level 7 first is slightly faster over all then stage 8 first. It probably would be pretty close, at least worth looking into if a serious attempt to optimize this is being made.
We wouldn't have the buster upgrade and the laser to kill enemies faster or escape the capsules and boss door for 2 stages
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
GameResources wrote:
Another drawback is 15DC is decremented every time MurderBarrier erases an enemy. If this value is not exactly zero, you can't switch weapons or pause the game. This, and the fact we can't complete the stage by erasing a boss, means there are no known speed uses as of this time.
This is not true anymore. I've found a way to disable Murder Barrier after having erased enemies. Here is the procedure: 1) Charge Bubble weapon; 2) Release and swap to Fire weapon in menu; 3) Charge and use Flame Dash; 4) Release and swap in menu to Laser weapon to enable MurderBarrier; 5) Erase as many enemies you want; 6) Charge and use Laser attack; 7) Change weapon by pressing L/R or via menu to turn off MurderBarrier. Note: if you erase an other enemy after firing the Charged Laser, the weapon will be locked again, and if you don't have enough ammo to fire another, you're stuck again. And here is a quick movie from savestate demonstrating it: User movie #38674058536568982 This works thanks to the ability of Fire weapon to fire multiple times in a row: you're always able to fire as long as you have ammo, even if you have a "Flame Barrier" on Zook, and after using Flame Dash, the weapon gets unlocked and you can do anything you want. Then, after changing to Laser Weapon, you still have the ability to fire again despite the barrier, and so you're able to use Charged Laser to unlock again, even after having erase enemies with MurderBarrier. Edit: Well. It looks like it is possible to charge Laser after having erased one enemy with MurderBarrier. This makes the procedure a little simpler.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Expert player (3535)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
It's possible with the mini boss skip that doing level 7 first is slightly faster over all then stage 8 first. It probably would be pretty close, at least worth looking into if a serious attempt to optimize this is being made.
We wouldn't have the buster upgrade and the laser to kill enemies faster or escape the capsules and boss door for 2 stages
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one, you are right. Also, are we sure this game is emulated well enough that all these glitches are valid? Some of the glitches seem to strain the system pretty hard, and debugging utilities are currently pretty limited.
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
Alyosha wrote:
Also, are we sure this game is emulated well enough that all these glitches are valid? Some of the glitches seem to strain the system pretty hard, and debugging utilities are currently pretty limited.
Actually, there is a graphical glitch in E Mo Dao, a GBC game by the same developer, which is visible on Gambatte, and not on VBA. So no, there is no way to be sure that there aren't any emulation inconsistences... The only way would be to replicate the glitches on actual GBA, which could be a bit difficult since the actual cartridge is quite rare.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I did talk briefly about route 871 versus 781, and concluded there isn't enough advantage for 7 first even removing the miniboss advantage from the skip. So, speaking of the miniboss skips, the idea is we shoot a normal enemy as the miniboss (or boss) loads. Destroy this enemy, and the game thinks the miniboss (or boss) died instead, for useful results. Let's list out minibosses: Intro - Game over -> kill first enemy, except game over is too long. Stage 1 - An enemy is barely out of reach of spikeball and laser... Stage 2 - Team 7 got the skip Stage 3 - Team 7 got the skip Stage 4 - No useful enemies near Stage 5 - Confirmed by Exonym Stage 6 - No enemy near that corner Stage 7 - Team 7 got the skip Stage 8 - No visible enemies near END - What? No minibosses In addition to the four known skips, it is also confirmed the intro boss can be skipped using the same method. This is not possible with any boss other than intro: * The door itself is the trigger * Somehow scrolling the boss room in without the door doesn't load boss * * Keep in mind there's an invisible wall in the way * Door erases all enemies upon contact Anyway, we have 4 confirmed minibosses skipped, 3 that doesn't appear feasible in any way, shape, or form, and 2 that looks tantalizingly close to possible. I want to talk about those two. Intro: Well, there is a flying enemy, but it is so far back that we'd waste more time waiting for it than killing the miniboss. The miniboss segment itself has a camera position trigger that would get us to the next segment right away (camera X needs to be 0x0100 to 0x0110, or 256 to 272), but the camera will not scroll that far. We can set up a Segment Skip, then do that skip while the camera is in that magic range during Segment 0 so that when the miniboss segment loads, we're there and already loading the next one after that. The only known way to set up a Segment Skip from intro is to meet the miniboss and game over against it. A regular death is not enough, it has to be game over. If that is done, then we can see the curious effect where we skip right past the miniboss. A game over itself takes more than one screen transition, and we'd also need to throw away the spare lives the game gave us, so the set-up is more costly than fighting the miniboss. If a faster alternative is found, then this might work, but until then, we're not skipping the miniboss. Stage 1: There is an enemy right before the miniboss. This enemy stays loaded right up until the miniboss appears, so if we can hit it, we skip the miniboss. The problem is, from Exonym's observation, that anything we do with spikeball or laser just won't reach. Other stages really want the Flame Charge for general time savings, particularly Stages 2 & 4 for breaking the auto-scroller, and Stages 3 & 5 to jump out of Ghost Fall (alternatives are not Ghost Fall or die). Even Stage 6 would like the bubble barrier, which requires Stage 4, and there's no way we're doing that before Stage 1. It would be nice if we can get these stages to work, but still, we have 4 minibosses and 1 boss skipped this way. The skip is useful already, but it would be really nice to get these as well.
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Well, we just discovered a potential for skipping bosses too, not just the intro boss. Problem is what is available. After using the laser to break the control lock on doors, just move left. If there's an enemy that can spawn right around the door area, then an enemy may spawn there. In the main stages, there generally aren't any enemies around the door. The final stage is crowded, so it is worth looking through it in hopes that something spawns in the right place. I looked at the first door myself, but the enemy that spawns is exactly and precisely far enough away to despawn when the camera stops in the boss room, down to the pixel. Other parts are being checked by Exonym, I believe.
Editor, Player (67)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041
This Lua might help find those spawns: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/38688648943863044 You'll want the left edge of the screen to be within the green boxes if you're moving backwards (to the left).
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Editor, Experienced player (883)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Well there were a couple of locations that looked ideal at first glance, but my tests show no positive results. Stage 6: There were multiple helicopter enemies just before the boss door. Great, we could probably respawn them and have them fly into the boss room right? Except that just before you reach the boss door, you load a new segment.. a segment which does not contain those enemies, therefore we can't respawn them. End stages: As already pointed out the first of the final stages, the enemy was 1 pixel away from being useful. I went on to the stage 4 clone, and was surprised to find out we could respawn one of those flying enemies after touching the door. However, for whatever reason the enemy is stuck in place and will not fly to the right. Edit: In fact if you shoot and kill it, there is another one there, and this happens infinitely as far as I can tell. EDIT I have found one in the stage 6 clone of the final stages. The enemy before the boss door is stuck between a very small pit in the ground and exists when the boss room has loaded. Now all we needed to do is charge our trusty star weapon, since that goes offscreen as far as it wants. Bam, we skipped a boss. Hooray. Yet another edit Confirmed boss skip for the stage 7-like boss in the final stages: The stage 8 clone stage boss is also skippable: The stage 2 clone boss is skippable, but this one was a bit harder to set up. Basically spawn the wall enemy as late as possible, so that he's still low on wall when the boss room loads. This locks him in place so he doesnt move upwards out of range of the camera and despawn. Then we just have to wall dash up and fire our charged star attack to the left, and the result:
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Been getting myself distracted on a new game I got. I probably needed that break, I suppose. So, I saved less than a second on Stage 7 by miniboss skip. userfile #38755128054343687 Haven't tried a different route where the player is much closer to the right edge of the screen, favoring player position over camera, with the thought we want that flying enemy drifting over sooner. Also fixed up the external radar script so now it has spawn points displayed. Joy. One possible improvement is a set of rectangles describing the regions where a spawn might happen should a point enter one of them while moving in the correct direction. Should I continue, I will just keep picking the most convenient stage select delays that preserves the early parts of stages as long as possible. The intent isn't to produce a submittable run, it's to have a "master file" that includes the latest tricks, while minimizing time on item drop manipulation. Once we have a better idea on what to expect, then we remove the delays and put real effort on item drops. The skips tally is now 4 minibosses and 4 boss re-fights. That leaves 3 minibosses with set-ups worse than the skips save, 2 minibosses with no skips, 8 main stage bosses, and 4 end boss re-fights.
USERFILE: Zook Man ZX4 - stage 7: 37 frames saved by miniboss skip wrote:
f16207 *** STAGE 7 *** f17161 Segment 0: 954 f17975 Segment 1: 814 f18502 Segment 2: 527 (T4:501 ; T7:565) f18712 Segment 3: 210 (T4:106 ; T7:200) f18781 Segment 4: 69 (T4:236 ; T7: 69) Segments 2 to 4 in 806 frames. This is 37 frames off of Team 4's no skip, and 28 frames off of Team 7's skip. Also, one laser shot is far less costly than 2 laser charges, so that's another plus over Team 4. Did not attempt to optimize a version of Team 7's route through, that is, "glue" myself to the right edge of the screen and navigate that way. Might get the helicopter going to the right earlier. Might be too much damage before that slowing us down. Camera will also be worse at the miniboss room by probably 30 pixels, though that might not affect time. Note that this file delays 24 frames at stage select so I didn't have to get here re-manipulating luck. If an 8-frame rule is saved in Stage 8, this means a delay of 32 frames, except it wraps to 0 delay as the item drops are on a 32 frame cycle. In a sense, this delay is an optimistic one, expecting precisely one frame rule saved (or five, nine, thirteen...). I really need to keep track of credits for each stage... Intro: Team 4's movie as base, plus some optimizations from... Someone, and a skip by... Someone else. Stage 8: Team 4's movie. Stage 7: Team 4's movie, implementing a skip from Team 7.
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
This is probably useless, but i want to point out that I noticed something strange in stage 0. Look at the terrain map: In the right up corner, there are four ceiling tiles to prevent Zook from jumping above screen. It is actually pretty easy to pass through them but still, nothing in particular happens. I wonder if they did put these four ceiling tiles as a quick workaround to some bad glitch, then later were fixed by an actual improvement of the code: that would explain why they did not implement such ceilings in level 6 as well. I still hope to discover some way to walk above the screen like in Super Mario Bros.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Player (79)
Joined: 8/5/2007
Posts: 865
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
This is probably useless, but i want to point out that I noticed something strange in stage 0. Look at the terrain map: In the right up corner, there are four ceiling tiles to prevent Zook from jumping above screen. It is actually pretty easy to pass through them but still, nothing in particular happens. I wonder if they did put these four ceiling tiles as a quick workaround to some bad glitch, then later were fixed by an actual improvement of the code: that would explain why they did not implement such ceilings in level 6 as well. I still hope to discover some way to walk above the screen like in Super Mario Bros.
Why not hex edit those tiles out, then see what happens?
Editor, Player (67)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041
I replaced the entire right wall with empty space (terrain 0x00) until the level of the ladder. You cannot move beyond the right side of the screen.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Active player (308)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
yeah you can't move beyond the segment's boundaries, it's like solid blocks
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Well, here's an updated External Radar script. Now with spawning zones. Still a rather heavyweight script, though. If you really need the information, it's probably worth the slowdown. Won't mind more efficient ways to display this stuff. At least it makes more sense on what things spawn and how we avoided some of them. The corners only kick in if moving diagonally, so moving straight across will avoid spawning things just off screen, and if you move enough for the spawn point to get basically within the normal viewing area, the spawn just doesn't activate,
Post subject: I'm not up to TASing this, it seems.
Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Sub-22 looks possible, with all the skips we've been finding. However, it's becoming increasingly apparent that I'm just not getting into the mood to try. So, while I'm still thinking about it, I'll give out all my routing thoughts on every stage before I completely fall off. Before I forget, remind me what the secret team did that no one else did. I have since lost that piece of knowledge. Intro Team 4 has most of the optimization already, but then we found the same concept that the Miniboss Skip works on will also work on bosses. I'm not expecting further frame savings, but I also realize not much more investigation has taken place after the skip was applied and optimized. It is theoretically possible to skip the miniboss here. Unfortunately, the only set-up known also takes longer than it takes to defeat the miniboss normally. I don't consider myself a good glitch hunter, but I'm not sure of any other way to keep the miniboss flag state. Stage 8 Almost certainly the first stage we go to for an optimal route. We get Arm Upgrade and Laser here, both of which are rather useful, especially together. Team 4's run was basically used. Assuming the intro faces no further improvements, we're currently waiting 4 frames at the door (conserving boss fight). There was also a spot of optimization on Team 4's run that moved 3 frames forward to a ladder after the miniboss. I delay at the ladder thanks to animation frame rules, meaning one more frame there should carry the other three over to the door, and in turn save us one dialog frame rule. Although the Miniboss Skip removes the advantage of getting a good charge-up weapon for the second miniboss we fight (okay, third. But I'm not counting Intro), 8-first still overwhelms 7-first from how long it takes us to beat the first (if counting intro, then second) boss with 3-damage shots rather than 2, plus other sorts of cute bonuses in Stage 7 by having laser and arm upgrade, including breaking the capsule lock and running off with its animation. Stage 7 Almost certainly the second stage to go to for an optimal route. We get Leg Upgrade and Spike Ball here. Dashes are nice, and so is giant spinning spikey doom. Once again, Team 4 optimized the snap out of this stage. The key difference to make here is the Miniboss Skip, which by my attempts, saves something like 36 frames. It also lets us exit the room with more laser ammo. I'm not certain what other changes to make here, though. Stage 1 Almost certainly the third stage to go to for an optimal route. We get fire. Charged, it gives an aerial dash that lets us mid-air jump after its down. Needed to break Stages 2 and 4 wide open. There's a lot of flat ground to dash on. There's also a Ladder Dash in here, which needs the Leg Upgrade. 1-second would mean flame charge in Stage 7, but this advantage actually competes with the invincibility trick we do with the laser there. It's likely route-871 is better than route-817 due to what Leg Upgrade brings over flame charge on Stage 7. Yes, Team 4 also optimized this one to a ridiculous degree once more. It's the end of their frame war rampage, though. As for the Miniboss Skip, there's an enemy that apparently exists long enough for it to happen, but it is too far off-screen for any of basic, spike ball, or laser to reach. Star charge can easily reach, but that requires 6 before 1, and we'd be short both flame charge and bubble barrier in 6, which may overwhelm the savings we'd get for skipping the miniboss here (which is done in 3 hits). Aside from that, I'm not sure what more we can do here that Team 4 didn't already do (Warning: Over-inflated ego detected, FatRatKnight identified as participant in Team 4). Stage 4 Very likely to be the fourth stage to go to for an optimal route. We get Bubble here. The barrier has certain inconveniences, but they are side-stepped beautifully with Charge Swap, and ignoring object damage has some advantages. Well, this stage is basically the big reason for Stages 8 and 1 before this one. Team 4 starts off faster, reaching and beating the miniboss before anyone else. Segment 3 was apparently faster in two other teams, but the excuse here is setting up Ghost Fall. The Ghost Fall itself and the segments that follow are better done by other teams, judging by the table. At this point, the stage order is rather uncertain. Or perhaps very fluid, and we can re-order however we please. Keep in mind there are animation frame rules between stages, which may cost us a few frames even if the stage order has less input involved. Due to the uncertainty, I'll list them in stage order (2356) rather than winning order. Besides, what can be determined as winning order anyway? Stage 2 We get Whirlwind here. Does nice damage uncharged, but the charged shot is practically worthless. The other big reason for Stages 1 and 8 early in the route. Ground is overrated. The bests of the teams are basically all over the place here, so tracking down who did what faster is going to be time consuming, to say the least. Miniboss Skip is done here, so be sure to pay attention to Team 7 there. Stage 3 We get... Well, I call it dirt spike. The basic shot does good damage, but I've consistently seen some nasty lag with its charge shot. The segment times are all over the place again. Since this is another stage that I haven't analyzed much of, I've got about as much to say as I did on Stage 2. Miniboss Skip is possible and viable here, as well. Stage 5 Head Upgrade is here, letting us leave a stage early, and preserving the miniboss state, except the set-ups are just too long. We get missile. Perhaps its main advantage is the fact the charge shot is consumed the instant it hits something, freeing up a sprite for lag and also letting us switch weapons afterward. Useful somewhere? Teams 3 and 4 are paced closely together here. Those two should have most of the fastest strats in there. If I had more to report, I would write them, but I'll just point you to the Miniboss Skip and attempt to distract you while I run off on the next stage now. Stage 6 Body Upgrade is here, with no confirmed effects other than disabling its capsule and lighting up a sprite on the pause screen. We get star. If there are miniboss skips that need them, this thing can go very far off screen, but I'm not sure if any of Stages 2, 3, or 5 can make use of it. Miniboss Skip is possible, but requires we do a Segment Skip. To be fair, the Segment Skip will skip the first segment and takes us straight to the end of the second segment, where we can then spawn an enemy to skip the miniboss. Three segments skipped at once, essentially. Only problem is the Segment Skip itself has a nasty set-up, making the savings from what we bypass lost on just having it happen to begin with. Not much else to report, again. Pull together the best of the teams (Team 3's got the lead for the most part), then execute the combined awesomeness? END A sequence of mini stages leading to boss re-fights. There's something unique about these boss doors: There are enemies that will spawn while the screen scrolls. But only if we travel left. Breaking the lock we get on the door using the charge laser, we can move left and trigger spawns. Four of the bosses here have been proven skippable this way, which is awesome to see, and should save a full minute or more. Other than that, the usual "find the best team and copy their movements" strategy is what we should go with. So, sub-22? If we're going to publish something, may as well make it as short as possible so we don't have to see too much of it, right?
Post subject: Re: I'm not up to TASing this, it seems.
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
FatRatKnight wrote:
Sub-22 looks possible, with all the skips we've been finding. However, it's becoming increasingly apparent that I'm just not getting into the mood to try. So, while I'm still thinking about it, I'll give out all my routing thoughts on every stage before I completely fall off.
Don't worry, you've already provided enough data for making a very good run. I just hope you'll consider picking up this project again later before it's done. I also want to point out that until now we had less partecipants than what I've expected. I ask to anyone who is reading this, to please consider contributing to this run; every tiny help is welcomed. And about that, we should beginning to list anyone who is contributing, for authorship referencing. Since this is not a trivial matter, I need FRT to specify every single person from which he got help, strategies, and data that he didn't already had by himself. Now getting back about the work. In my opinion, stage 0 is impossible to improve further, except in the eventuality of new glitches or tricks behing discovered. Then there is level 8, in which I spotted a place that may be improved by preventing an enemy to spawn, by using camera trickery. For this reason, I've written a quick script based on the External Radar by FRK, which only features spawn borders and enemy spawn positions, by using the game screen instead that using a new window, resulting in a very lighter script: User movie #38787806393105666. Apart from this, I have currently no other things to add to what FRK already said. The route 8-7-1 looks very solid, and there may be changes only about later stages, for very minor time saves.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1279)
Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France
I am currently on another project, but I will come back at ZX4 after if it's not over yet in the meantime (seriously, I need to take a break from this game...)
Judge, Skilled player (1289)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
lapogne36 wrote:
I am currently on another project, but I will come back at ZX4 after if it's not over yet in the meantime (seriously, I need to take a break from this game...)
Don't worry, I perfectly understand, I also need to have breaks and get to work on different projects very often. By the way, I have news: as I thought, it was possible to prevent that enemy to spawn in stage 8. This resulted in 7 frames saved, tough due to frame rules this made the boss battle to desync a lot and get 2 lag frames. I don't feel like fixing it right now, so here is the desyncing movie file, just for informational purposes: User movie #38889985897884222
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
1 2 3
6 7