Topic by ThunderAxe31

Posted: 10/3/2017 8:05 PM

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

By looking at the first Start press on beginning of stages, you saved 7 frames in s13 and lost 7 frames in s15. By the way, I noticed you named the WIP after the last input frame number, instead of the input amount. I did the same mistake in my last WIP upload. I think the numeration should reflect to the input count by TASVideos userfiles engine. Have an example: Zook Man ZX4 in 73675 frames. Turns out not only Fire weapon is unnecessary for s16, but you even save a frame by not using it. Also, I saved an animation frame rule by modifying the Door Break a bit. 5 frames saved in total. Now we only need to get back the frames from s15 I guess. Edit: Keylie saved 4 frames in Stage 15 and 1 frame in Stage 16, then I saved 2 frames in Stage 16. So Zook now ends in 73668 frames. I think the only thing left to do is getting another 4 frames for animation rule in Stage 15. I have no other leads.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 10/6/2017 12:02 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

I was well on my way to adding entertainment to the Stage 6 boss... ... But then... I found an improvement to the boss! 85 frames by my count. We're not synced up on the 32-frame item cycle. After all that, we got a pretty big improvement. Basically, by pausing during the yappin' boss dialog, we can delay the boss actions long enough to get in an extra hit before that teleport. We were something like 10 frames before getting that next hit. But then I started thinking. I'm too dangerous with my thoughts.

Posted: 10/6/2017 2:56 PM

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

I'm fine with redoing the run again. But first, I need to ask two things: 1) Can Stage 3 boss can be improved with the same trick? 2) Some months ago I've left a 1 frame delay in a certain spot in Stage 6, would getting back that frame save something?

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 10/6/2017 7:49 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

ThunderAxe31 wrote:

1) Can Stage 3 boss can be improved with the same trick?

No. Stage 3 boss actions depend on when we clear dialog, not when it begins existing. Just to keep score: 0) We skip this one 8) We're rather limited in what we can do here 7) Well, we could use an Ammo Tank. Don't think we can win on 11 ammo alone, so the mid-fight tank is still needed 1) No invincibility attack 4) No invincibility attack 5) No invincibility attack 3) Attack depends on when we end dialog, not when boss begins existing. Insert frames before the dialog-clearing A press and see for yourself 6) We found the savings here! 2) Might be worth a few frames -- Delay enough to "wrap around" and get the boss upward slightly sooner!

ThunderAxe31 wrote:

2) Some months ago I've left a 1 frame delay in a certain spot in Stage 6, would getting back that frame save something?

~~Dialog frame rule is not in effect. Only thing left is the animation frame rule. My memory claims we were at 2/4 delay, and a single frame would move that to 3/4 delay. I do not fully trust my memory.~~ EDIT: Wait, the point of the pause is to delay things. If we enter at 0/8 or 7/8 delay, the 7/8 delay means we need to pause another 7 frames, as the boss started existing 7 frames earlier. We need to act sooner relative to boss, so... Dialog frame rule in full force here. I forget where we're at. EDIT2: Made sure to check Stage 7's boss. We can't efficiently win on 11 ammo, but we can on 15: __->11 - 45:10 First charged laser, refill as we fire on a "magic frame" 11->_7 - 35:_9 Second charged laser _7->_5 - 31:_8 Normal laser _5->_1 - 21:_7 Third charged laser _1->-3 - 11:_6 Charge Storage After that, basic can cover the remaining 11 HP in 6 hits. The core of the problem is poor timing. If we pause, we delay the boss. He's at the magical moment where this delay means the sole invincibility attack starts cutting into our time. There are not enough frames between unlocking ourselves from damage and the first laser we need to fire to fully wrap around the attack timings. I can get the invincibility attack a full damage cycle earlier, but then we get a second invincibility attack before our 11th hit. I don't see us getting an 8-frame save on Stage 7 boss.

Posted: 10/8/2017 8:55 PM
(Edited: 10/12/2017 11:01 AM)

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

Yo guys! I know I promised to not ask again help with resyncing the run but... I need help for just *one* drop so... https://filebin.net/moqbv9bq9pgtu9i8/ZM_s6in56128_9.bk2.tasproj Every time an improvement is found, RNG gets harder to fix. Fate surely has a dire sense of humor. I wonder if it is even possible to make it this time... I've already tried some new approaches, but there is really little that can be done in Stage 2 segment 0 and 1. But if we happen to fix this, then there is a chance we would be able to save an animation frame rule in Stage 15... By the way, after my last improvement I had to come up with a new strategy for triggering the shot counter glitch for boss fight in Stage 6, so here you go: https://filebin.net/moqbv9bq9pgtu9i8/ZM_s6_boss_shotcounterglitch.tasproj Edit: Thanks to lapogne36, the ammo situation improved but it's still not solved. We got empty again in segment 6. By the way, I've tried *any* possible alternative route up to frame 57150 and found absolutely nothing. I'm sure no frames can be saved there. Edit 2: Ammo found and stage resynced, except for boss battle. The help from lapogne36 was crucial, thank you very much. Now, there is something wrong about the boss... for some reasons, the first character in the dialog appears 4 frames later, despite the indicator lag frame is 4 frame earlier as expected.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 10/11/2017 2:27 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Boss is fixed, no worries. I found a few frames at the door, it's got crazy frame rules and such. Although it implies we should be jumping at more doors, not dashing at them... End stages are probably going to be painful with the item drops all over again.

Posted: 10/11/2017 3:30 AM
(Edited: 10/23/2017 4:44 PM)

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

FatRatKnight wrote:

Although it implies we should be jumping at more doors, not dashing at them...

Oh no... I remember Stage 3 is at 4/8... How many frames can you save on that boss door? Edit: looks like there really are no improvements available for prior stages. 8 frames saved in Stage 11 thanks to not caring about ammo drops anymore. Now we only need to double check Stage 14 for possible improvements and save 4 frames in Stage 15 by not caring about ammo drops again. Edit 2: Zook Man ZX4 - Stage 12 in 68487. Boss fight is cool but needs polishes. Edit 3: Stage 12 resync. Now needs to remove the ammo tank usage from Stage 13... Though I'm having some troubles because frame rules. Edit 4: Stage 14 resync. Managed the same time and grabbing a 5 laser refill in the meantime. Edit 5: Zook Man ZX4 - END in 73545. We're here yet again. I've saved 4 frames in s15 and I've replaced one of the two bubble uses in s9 fight, in order to save enough ammo for barrier in s16. Edit 6: I've done some minor entertaining improvements to s4 and s3 boss fights, and I'm trying to revive the incomplete s6 boss entertaining improvement by FatRatKnight. Have this .tasproj if you want to contribute: https://filebin.net/v1cmag4nok40cb2h/ZM_s6_boss_entertain_resume.tasproj Then we will have to polish s9 and s11 boss fights and... We'll be done making the run... Edit 7: I'm having huge problems pasting FRK movie. Here is the current progress: https://filebin.net/4utv46j6xoj05l8l/ZM_s6_boss_entertain_resume_3.tasproj And I didn't touch s9 and s11 boss fights yet. Any help is very appreciated.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 10/19/2017 1:15 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Here's the Stage 6 boss fight. I'm hoping it looks glitchy enough. Did try running the movie to the end. Apparently it desyncs in s15...? I wanted to double-check to see if the movie properly ends afterward.

Posted: 10/21/2017 10:35 PM
(Edited: 10/23/2017 4:44 PM)

Post subject: Uhm...

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

I was hoping to finally submit Zook run before this week end but in the end it's not going how I planned... Some touchups to s6 and s9 boss fights. On s6 I just changed the timing of the swaps during dialog in order to make the result similar to how was in the precedent, incomplete wip movie. In s9 I added some spinning in place because there wasn't much movement that could be done without having lag problems. About the lag glitch in s15. For some reasons, the boss door is invisible and the game lags a bit when the boss explodes. His fragments are invisible as well. After some checks, I've found nothing wrong with allocation memory, nor with objects memory, nor with VRAM. Everything is just as it's supposed to be, I don't even know what's going on. I've also tried suiciding in boss room, and Zook's fragments are displayed correctly instead. All of this started after implementing the extensive glitchy playaround in s6 boss. Could be caused by the intense spikeball swapping, I'm not sure because I didn't do many tests in there. The interesting thing, is that when we get to s16, it gets even worse, having multiple enemies invisible and a ton of lag. So I've tried doing a quick test with cheats, by starting a gameplay straight from s16. And no enemy was invisible there, not even the ceiling enemies. I've taken a look at the DTC6 movies, and in every single one of them the ceiling enemies are invisible; in some the boss projectiles are too, and in at least one even the boss sprite itself. But let's now get to the real bad new. While doing this quick test in s16, I've encountered a strage behaviour from one enemy... The round one with spikes, flying around perpendicularly, you know? It got inside a wall and kept going through, by playing a bit with the camera. The fact is... Remember about the level loading glitch I found some weeks ago? What if could be able to get that enemy to... Uhm... The miniboss?...

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 10/22/2017 12:43 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1172)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

I recall making some attempts at getting a wheel enemy to s8 miniboss. My own results came up negative. Maybe I didn't look in the right places. As for the lag and invisible stuff, I would advise doing some memory compares on the same frame of different branches. I recall checking the two branches of that s6 fights and the memory came up rather different by some marker on s13. Even some things in IWRAM were different, but I didn't save the addresses. So, how should we go about analyzing this? No ideas at the moment, had to deal with life stuff for now.

Posted: 10/22/2017 2:58 PM

Post subject: Submitting the run (not) very soon.

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

Fixed the s15 door glitch, added s11 boss entertainment additions, and fixed sync problem at movie end (needed to add 1 frame...) I have nothing left to do with the movie, so I'm now preparing for submitting the run. In the meantime that MeGUI processes the video, I'm updating the submission text and checking if there are any chances to skip s8 miniboss. I think the movie file could still have some very minor time saves, like 3 frames maximum, so it's fine to submit it already; as long as it's not a major save, the movie file could be updated to the submission. Same goes for the submission text. So if anyone has any objection, please speak now. Edit: My netbook broke. Is not turning on anymore. And I can't use BizHawk while MeGUI is encoding on my main machine. So I'll have to delay the submitting, since I have at least two new skips to research on... Edit 2: Uhm... After some preliminary tests, it looks like it's feasible... Tough a lot of funny things happen. Have some fun: https://filebin.net/574a5ydink4y4vk8/ZM_remote_mine_test.tasproj Edit 3: looks like Zook is in a very bad position. We can kill the enemy from distance, but not enough. The bullets disappear because it gets too much further on the left, and if we face the right when shooting, it will run away before hitting. I'll explain about this Remote Mine. When swapping a Fire shot to Dirt, the middle bullet will get the huge Meteor hitbox and keep travelling, and when hits an enemy, instead of disappearing will become hitboxless and stationary. If we swap to Fire weapon again, it will mutate into a Flame Charge, remain stationary and continue hitting. If we swap again to dirt, it will mutate into a Meteor again, but this time stationary. You can see my failed attempts in this new .tasproj: https://filebin.net/6xw6rgmr6dypy1lk/ZM_remote_mine_test_3.tasproj Edit 4: No. There are no new skips available. The wheel enemy in Stage 8 should go through a lot of walls and stuff, and the glitched Fire-Dirt bullets are refusing to cooperate. I'll wait some hours before submitting the run.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 9/17/2018 12:35 AM

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dekutony

Experienced player (633)

Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2208
Location: Guatemala

So the english version, Rockman & Crystal has been dumped. I wonder if there's any gameplay differences compared to the other version.

Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony

Posted: 9/17/2018 3:21 AM

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Dacicus

Editor, Player (67)

Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041

Kurabupengin wrote:

I wonder if there's any gameplay differences compared to the other version.

The DTC6 publication movie gets through the intro stage, so all of those glitches are still intact. It desynchs at the beginning of stage 8, but I haven't investigated why.

Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.

Posted: 9/17/2018 8:53 AM

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ThunderAxe31

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Judge, Skilled player (1289)

Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy

Looks like Rockman & Crystal introduced some heavy lag in stage 8, as some enemies are invisible.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"