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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:36 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I stumbled upon this by accident, but I found out that yes indeed, you can grab whatever item a guard animal guards, but you'll have to sacrifice a life to do so. You'll once again need the spring shoes for it, and you have to leap and hit the enemy in such a way that your bounce will propel you forward onto the item, and even though you're dead, you still get the item. Unfortunately, this isn't useful at all in a TAS unless you're sacrificing time for entertainment. I've really come across some odd Spring Shoes tricks. Seems that the programmers didn't really keep those things in mind.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 2:35 PM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
HA! I knew that I wasn't crazy! Can you tell us more about the Spring Shoes tricks?
Posted: 10/2/2005 3:04 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I was just referring to the Judge Doom glitch, and this trick to nab the item from the guard animals. I don't know what else can be exploited with this trick, but I'm sure there's got to be something further you can do with them. At least now we can see that the Rattle isn't necessary for game completion.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 3:30 PM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
Well, if we remove all the guard-killers items (cheese and rattle), we do have enough lives to go through them, pick the item and die. (Detonator, and a part of the Will.) That is if we buy the Shoes at the Store. Else, it's 3 deaths, and Eddie has 3 lives... I think... We need to start a little walkthrough now.
Posted: 10/2/2005 3:53 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I think this would be good at least for a minimal item run. Unless you can see that it actually saves some frames by dying. In fact, that is a good idea. I'm gonna go watch that speed run again and garner some ideas. ---EDIT--- - You can die four times before it's "Game Over". So you can die three times with "no penalty", so to speak. - Frames can be saved by not going to get the cheese or the crowbar. - The first items that have to be picked up are the wallet, the dynamite, and the Spring Shoes. In that order. - If you're actually not bothering to use the cheese or rattle, there's three deaths that have to be done in order to get the items without using them. One is a will piece, the other is the detonator, and the other is the rattle. Since we're ignoring the rattle, that means two deaths would be necessary. - Getting the cheese and crowbar can be skipped entirely. Since we're buying the dynamite from the store, that can be skipped too. So basically, as soon as you get the Spring Shoes, you can go right up to the north, outside L.A, and get the will piece there. CURRENT PATH - Get the wallet from outside Valiant's office and leave. - Go to the store and buy the Dynamite. - Stop at Building #23 and grab the Spring Shoes. - Start heading toward Outside L.A. - Stop at Building #18 and grab the Detonator via a death. (Death #1) - Go outside L.A. - Go to the closest cave and get the Will Piece via a death. (Death #2) - Go back to L.A. and grab the second Will Piece via a death (Death #3) - You have the Dynamite and Detonator, go to Toontown now. =D - Basically, the last half of the movie is the same as the movie that was submitted earlier. REQUIRED ITEMS - Wallet - Dynamite - Spring Shoes - Detonator - The Will - Baseball And one last note, are there five or six will pieces? o_O [EDIT] On a second note, another possibility is to actually skip the wallet altogether and just pick up the dynamite from the building. So, here's the second possible path. - Leave Valiant's Office - Stop at Building #23 and grab the Spring Shoes. - Start heading toward Outside L.A. - Stop at Building #18 and grab the Detonator via a death. (Death #1) - Go outside L.A. - Go to the closest cave and get the Will Piece via a death. (Death #2) - Go back to L.A. and grab the second Will Piece via a death (Death #3) - Stop into Building #20 and grab the Dynamite - You have the Dynamite and Detonator, go to Toontown now. =D - Basically, the last half of the movie is the same as the movie that was submitted earlier.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 5:07 PM
(Edited: 10/2/2005 5:19 PM)
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tool23
Player (79)
Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130
I think thats a good idea to get the absolute minimum number of items. Other ideas i had for improving on the time were to use the whistle to avoid having to drive that long zig-zag stretch of road (i dont think possible on the item set i had for my run), and to switch items whenever Eddie has to stop, because to switch items Eddie has to stop and start again. There are always 4 will pieces, and are not always guarded. One time i happened to find the spring shoes sitting on the sidewalk in front of store #1... too bad i didn't save that game! Ideally would be to find the spring shoes, whistle, and detonator somewhere near the store. that way with your spring shoes trick the wills could be gotton if guarded or in a cave. oh, and on the wider roads of toontown oncoming cars can be dodged. also, when playing through a game to see where the items are, the search can be more efficiently by knowing that the essential items (spring shoes, detonator, whistle, will) will always be laying around, and not in a desk or mousehole or something.
Posted: 10/2/2005 5:16 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
If you don't mind and have time, you ought to do both of the paths I suggested and see which one is actually the fastest. I don't think that either of my paths would be that much faster, if they even are faster, but I think it makes the run a lot more interesting. Sometimes with the death trick to get the items too, you won't go into the animation where Valiant falls on his butt and shakes his fist, sometimes he'll just stand there unable to move. I'd suggest seeing if this is possible for at least one of the deaths. If you really want to do a Minimal Item run, use the second path I gave. If you want to use the path I think is quickest, use the first path. I'm kind of curious to see how they all compare to one-another.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 5:36 PM
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tool23
Player (79)
Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130
I'm finding that the wills are always in the same place. so for now i'm trying to find games with more desireable item locations, then hopefully work from there.
Posted: 10/2/2005 5:39 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I believe they change according to which frame you press [Start] on. I've seen an unguarded will in the Gag Factory before in casual playing, yet have not seen the will in the cave as you found it on your submitted run.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 6:50 PM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
Question: do you HAVE to buy the Whistle? Or you can find it in a building? I *think* I found one in a building when I was young.
Posted: 10/2/2005 7:13 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
You can find it, but there's not much it's really good for in a speed run.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/2/2005 10:45 PM
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tool23
Player (79)
Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130
Well, i've mapped out 9 different ways the items can be placed and none seem as good as the first one i did, so i guess i'll work on improving that one. Rick - youre right, the wills do change... I'm thinking of changing your suggested path a little, because i'd really like to get the whistle to skip the long road in the north of the map. this means one more death (because its guarded by a cat at Maroon Studios), and so I would have to get the rattle to avoid the two other deaths (but I would die getting the rattle too). I think the trade-off would be quicker though. DJ Fozz - the whistle can be found usually at the Maroon Studios or buildings 23 or 20. Also, with animals that guard items its possible to get the item and die without using spring shoes - just charge ahead. but i think this only works with cats and dogs - the rats get me every time.
Posted: 10/2/2005 10:55 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Shoot, I forgot all about Benny in those runs. So here's the plans re-made: PATH #1 - Get the wallet from outside Valiant's office and leave. - Go to the store and buy the Dynamite. - Pick up Benny the Cab. - Stop at Building #23 and grab the Spring Shoes. - Start heading toward Outside L.A. - Stop at Building #18 and grab the Detonator via a death. (Death #1) - Go outside L.A. - Go to the closest cave and get the Will Piece via a death. (Death #2) - Go back to L.A. and grab the second Will Piece via a death (Death #3) - You have the Dynamite and Detonator, go to Toontown now. =D - Basically, the last half of the movie is the same as the movie that was submitted earlier. PATH #2 - Leave Valiant's Office - Pick up Benny the Cab - Stop at Building #23 and grab the Spring Shoes. - Start heading toward Outside L.A. - Stop at Building #18 and grab the Detonator via a death. (Death #1) - Go outside L.A. - Go to the closest cave and get the Will Piece via a death. (Death #2) - Go back to L.A. and grab the second Will Piece via a death (Death #3) - Stop into Building #20 and grab the Dynamite - You have the Dynamite and Detonator, go to Toontown now. =D - Basically, the last half of the movie is the same as the movie that was submitted earlier. --- You're probably right about using the whistle to skip the long roads, but you still go slower on foot than in the cab. I dunno, I feel like all the trouble to get the whistle just wouldn't really be worth the trouble to go dying again. Perhaps instead of going through all that work to get the whistle, try to pick it up at the store after you get the Will piece outside of L.A. since it is the item that shows up after the dynamite, though I don't know if by that time, the item will have switched or not. If it has switched, then bam, just pick it up on the way and use Path #1, since you can buy two things on one wallet pickup.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/3/2005 4:50 AM
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tool23
Player (79)
Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130
here 's the route that picks up the whistle. I hit the toontown tunnel about 2000 frames ahead of my last run. movie
Posted: 10/3/2005 5:15 AM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
Crap... I don't know what happened in my run, but the items aren't at the same places... There's a Rose instead of the Shoes!! :(
Posted: 10/3/2005 5:32 AM
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tool23
Player (79)
Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130
if youre using the same item set as I did, just load up that movie, then start playing once the game starts in valiants office. otherwise, i dont know! the randomization is pretty frustrating
Posted: 10/3/2005 10:31 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
The movie desynchs for me soon after you get the Spring Shoes.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/4/2005 2:39 PM
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Tailz
Former player
Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD
I just watched the version you submitted and it is superb. Great job! I liked how you kept pounding Doom in the face, that was great. Anyway, I had a thought. Why not try a run of this game using a password that gives you everything, just to see how fast you can do it? I think it would be interesting. The password I'm thinking of is this one: LLHHHHHH HHHHHH HHHHHH3B Enter that password at the password screen and you'll start with everything. Everything except the dynamite. Buy it from the store or find it on the street, then you can go straight to Toontown and beat the game. How fast do you think it could be done?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.
Posted: 10/4/2005 5:16 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I'm kind of against that idea personally because most of the entertainment comes from finding the items so fast to get to Doom, and if you take that out, it would just feel like watching your best friend put in the password and beat the game. All nice and all, but there's little entertainment involved aside from watching your friend play.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 10/4/2005 5:25 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1301)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
I asked this at the last submission, but maybe someone here knows the answer: why not use the whistle one more time to skip a long segment of winding roads near the end? It looks like this was already considered in this topic, but there's no explanation as to why it was dismissed.
Posted: 10/4/2005 6:09 PM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
Because we only have 3 whistles. While he "officially" used 2, when you blast the wall to go to ToonTown, you use one by default, since B is used for the dynamite/detonator combo AND the whistle.
Posted: 10/4/2005 6:29 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1301)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
DJ FozzBozz wrote:
Because we only have 3 whistles. While he "officially" used 2, when you blast the wall to go to ToonTown, you use one by default, since B is used for the dynamite/detonator combo AND the whistle.
No, you have 5 whistles, only 4 of which have been used. Try it, there's still 1 whistle blow left after blasting the wall.
Posted: 10/4/2005 8:17 PM
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DJ_FozzBozz
Former player
Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 109
Location: Québec
Ah? I always thought it came in packs of 3!
Posted: 10/5/2005 1:08 AM
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Tailz
Former player
Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD
That's just what they wanted you to think.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.
Posted: 10/5/2005 1:56 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Well hey, give it a try and see what happens. Maybe it'll fix the desynch on the movie or something. *Shrug*
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
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