40 frames faster than hero of the day's (or 72 from my last one) ... the Monopoly war is not over!
This was already planned since a few days, when Phil was himself improving it by 1 second (just unable to get the last turn to work) and we talked about it together. Two new things were found:
When entering the player's name, the random values change differently, so waiting there also gives different results for the cards, allowing better manipulation. Entering the default "Player 1" as fast as possible just happened to be significantly faster than using 1 more frame for "P", but I'm now 10 frames faster.
A third way to manipulate the dice (which Phil found before me) is to wait at the end of the previous turn, allowing to save a few more frames.
I also finally gave Arthur a break and decided it'd be Erwin's turn to lose, but that's only a visual change ...
Manipulating the last turn took many tries as usual, but I ended up getting a faster winning timing than last time as well.
Maybe because when they submit it, they CANT think of anyway to make it faster.
Plus, I like wars. They are friendly competition with each other trying to squeeze out frames. Like Goonies 1(I think between Phil and Walker Boh). They test the TASer to think faster then usual, and more unhuman than usual.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Competition breeds perfection. Its not like we are fighting each other. The war is a friendly war, and each improvement is motivation to improve the movie further.
Sometimes I wonder if the competition is rushed because each person wants their name on the current fastest submission.
Not in the particular case of this run (since it shaves off 40 frames, which is great for a game this size), but I can see where this is going to go. Eventually we're going to have 5 or 6 submissions where each improvement is only by a couple of frames (like Donkey Kong).
Bring em on then. If people can keep pushing this game to in under 30 seconds I will be happy :).(even though I am happy with the improvements made already :) )
I think you're missing the point. Do you really think it's necessary to submit every single improvement, even if they're only by a few frames and you'll know it'll be beaten in a day anyway? I could've sworn submissions were for the purpose of actually getting published, not showing how fast you got it before it gets improved a few hours later.
Monopoly is pretty much different than DK.
Aside from luck maniuplation, I don't see any differences.
Atro city, just letting you know that you aren't the only one who doesn't find this game, run, or war entertaining.
Phil wrote:
atro city: yeah yeah, big mouth but too lame to try himself.
This is probably the most pointless and childish thing I've seen posted here. It reminds me of "I know you are but what am I?"
If not doing every run that you vote "no" on yourself makes you lame, then Phil himself is lame by his own definition.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I think you're missing the point. Do you really think it's necessary to submit every single improvement, even if they're only by a few frames and you'll know it'll be beaten in a day anyway? I could've sworn submissions were for the purpose of actually getting published, not showing how fast you got it before it gets improved a few hours later.
When you aim for perfected game movies, that cannot be beaten any faster, there is nothing wrong here.
Competition generally works better than pooling your skills -- as when you have a time to beat, you tend to try new things, or anything that can get you under the time needed.
Personally, I couldn't care less if it dropped to single frame improvements -- it's still within the range of this site, and if it has to drop that far they're obviously doing a damn fine job, if it's almost perfected.
The only reason other games like SMB1 or other heavily-attacked games didn't get this flood of submissions and such is because they take considerably longer than 00:31 to beat; short movies like this can be redone over and over, trying tons of random things, relatively fast. A route change here would be nothing compared to, say, the same change in a Meggerman 1 run.
[shrug]
Atro city, just letting you know that you aren't the only one who doesn't find this game, run, or war entertaining.
If you don't like it, then you are unwelcome here. How can you do a movie that is so perfect? Everyone ideas are important. And with competiton between people comes ideas.
And like you said to me, don't read(watch in this case) it.
atro city wrote:
I think you're missing the point. Do you really think it's necessary to submit every single improvement, even if they're only by a few frames and you'll know it'll be beaten in a day anyway? I could've sworn submissions were for the purpose of actually getting published, not showing how fast you got it before it gets improved a few hours later.
That's really not the case. Hours later? Days later instead.
Monopoly is pretty much different than DK.atro city wrote:
Aside from luck maniuplation, I don't see any differences.
That's lot of difference because that. Guess how much possibilities this game can have?
How mature. Just because someone doesn't find this game interesting doesn't mean that they are automagically unworthy to grace this thread with their opinion.
Though on the other hand it is quite annoying when atro city posts his "I don't find this interesting" schtick in every thread on this game.
You're both being idiots. Stop it. Bad for my health.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
OmnipotentEntity: I didn't say that atro city is unworthy because he doesn't like the game but it's just that I don't like the "Come on the game is easy. Do it once and for all" mentality. The game is pretty hard and really painful to TAS. I admire Hero of the day and acmlm's courage.
I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to your comment at JXQ.
Phil wrote:
JXQ wrote:
Atro city, just letting you know that you aren't the only one who doesn't find this game, run, or war entertaining.
If you don't like it, then you are unwelcome here.
That was rude, and completely uncalled for. I understand that you two are having a stupid, pointless spat about something. But at least keep it civil. Ye gods.
EDIT: Comma Error.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Why are you so rude with Phil? atro city talks as if he hadn't taken into account that the only way to know if a movie is the fastest is to test every input, which cannot be done with current technology.
If this movie has been possible, it's just because new ways to manipulate luck in this game were discovered. Without those new discoveries, it's likely that the last movie would be unbeatable.
If you expect people to wait until all tricks have been discovered before submiting a run, most Rockman movies wouldn't be there yet (and probably wouln't in the years to come).
Instead of starting a discussion, why don't you try to obsolete Circus Charlie? It's pretty short, too, and you would get rid of another famtasia movie. :D
Though on the other hand it is quite annoying when atro city posts his "I don't find this interesting" schtick in every thread on this game.
What the hell are you talking about? For one, I never said that I didn't find this interesting. In fact, I've NEVER said I haven't found a Monopoly run interesting. Ever. So I honestly have no clue where you got this from.
Atro city, just letting you know that you aren't the only one who doesn't find this game, run, or war entertaining.
I never said I didn't find the game/run entertaining.
OmnipotentEntity: I didn't say that atro city is unworthy because he doesn't like the game but it's just that I don't like the "Come on the game is easy. Do it once and for all" mentality. The game is pretty hard and really painful to TAS. I admire Hero of the day and acmlm's courage.
Where in any of my posts did I ever say that this game was easy? I'm saying take your time and stop submitting every few days when you know it will be improved very shortly.
atro city talks as if he hadn't taken into account that the only way to know if a movie is the fastest is to test every input, which cannot be done with current technology.
No, just the input that directly affects the luck required to beat the movie faster.
Argh, all you guys do is misquote and misunderstand me, so I'm just going to stop arguing this completely retarded topic, because it's going absolutely nowhere.
Leave it up to Phil to force you to argue over something pointless, then stoop to the level of a child and fan the flames further.
I think this is another case of competition vs. collaboration. Reminds me of the heated discussion that surrounded the last smb2 run.
The way I see this thread, I think astro city was siding with the idea of collaborating to make one perfect run, whereas a couple others argued in favor of competition supporting that it fuels the drive for perfection. Somewhere inbetween, I believe a muddled argument led to certain personal attacks between posters. Now let's extinguish these flames.
1st. This movie isn't crap. Ex. of crappy movie: http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=43
2nd. This will be probably the last movie. Unless someone really wants to try more.
3rd. atro city wrote:
No, just the input that directly affects the luck required to beat the movie faster.
That's what the author had done.
Doing what you really want would require monthes to do. Is there any one willing to lost his time for that? No
Like I said, simple to say but hard to do.
4th. I give my help to acmlm the most as I can by sending my WIP and giving him some advices.
Someone that take his free time doing TAS should never be blamed here.
