Yet another warp run for SMB2u. The strategy for the entire run is pretty much the same as Phil. I took different paths just so everyone could actually see that I was doing something different. This movie was VERY hard to make. Phil did an excellent job manipulating the game to do what he wanted. I went through and found frames I didn't think where there. I spent a very long time on this run. I hope that if I am beaten, that it's not by the number of frames I was able to find, hehe. Anyway, here's the rundown:
1-1: -0[0.000s] - unless someone can beat it faster then 2 or 3 frames, birdo will shoot the egg at teh same time within a few frames.
1-2: -6[0.100s] - I found some very mysterious frames, 4 came from teh carpet ride. I tried for a VERY long time to get this one...the other two were mysteriously from birdo.
1-3: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
4-1: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
4-2: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
6-1: -5[0.083s] - Most of these frames were from the sand digging area. How I managed to squeeze out these guys...I thought that sand area was perfect when I first started.
6-2: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
6-3: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
7-1: -5[0.083s] - I saved a few frames on the ladder glitching part.
7-2: -3[0.050s] - I managed to gain one pixel, and when going for the birdo with the key, I manage to start my forward momentum 2 frames faster. I also saved two frames on the last bird head thing, but when I finished wart I was knocked down a frame.
All in all I saved 19 frames, or 0.317s. This time save was also just enough to make the submission time round down instead of rounding up like Phils'. (previous run is 07:54 and the new one is 07:53)
NesVideoAgent: Hi! I am a robot. I took a few screenshots
of this movie and placed them here.
Here goes!
Has only the original author the right to improve his runs? No. Phil improved Sleepz run already, why should not someone else improve it again, when it is possible.
At the other side, the original first author did a great job, when he was the first, who released a movie from a game. He show tricks, which other runner copie and add there new tricks to make it faster. At the end we have a great movie where many different people have worked. So from me much respect for the original author from every movie, and respect for everyone who found new tricks and glitches to make the movies faster.
Sure its always a bad feeling, when a movie gets obsoleted from a different author. But thats show, that the first movie was not perfect. Everyone must live with this feeling, and I think many here know this, that it can or will happen someday.
So I vote yes, but I have still one question:
The Bird head Boss, the one in 7.2 infront of the last Boss. Why all always use the second stone, to defeat him? When Toad carry an item he is faster, so would it not save time, when he carry the first stone and use this as item to defeat the Bird head? He can walk faster from this point to the head.
Or takes the Boss so long, till he wake up that it is not important, which stone Toad pick up?
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run)
WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB)
Matty
Im not sure what you are trying to prove other than to show the differences. But there are no differences, just as there was no difference between Phil and Sleepz movie. Phil's run was accepted which should be without a doubt be in this case too.
Maybe, and the submission describes the differences fairly well.
But people in IRC were asking, and I had nothing better to do.
And I also don't agree with the notion that *who* submitted a movie should be taken into consideration when determining whether to publish a movie or not - judge the movie on its own merit, not on who did it.
I'm co-signing on this statement. Seems every time an SMB2 run gets submitted, half the community has a whiny little hissy fit. I thought perfection was the point. If you aren't going to accept all submissions, don't accept ANY. Or how about you just BAN certain games from being run because you're too bitchy to accept improvements, no matter how big or small they may be.
I just don't like to welcome the atmosphere where your hard work of making a entertaining 10-minute movie will be forgotten because someone else made a movie that's 0.3 seconds faster than yours.
Well, then ban the games or just delete new submissions. That's the way the world works, chief, whether you like it or not. Popular games are going to be run, improvements are going to be made. It's been awhile, so I don't recall who said it - but wasn't there a discussion on the quality of the runs on the site going downhill since it opened? That people just don't seem to TRY hard as they could?
Well shit, if people get targetted like this, who can blame them? If you try and squeeze tiny improvements here and there, you're gonna get blasted by half the community for trying to... I dunno, "dethrone" someone else.
Elitist pricks. "We'll accept small improvements, but only by people who've been around awhile!" or "Despite this being faster, we've got to see what the guy who made the last version says!"
Bullshit. Judge the movie on it's own and stop playing favorites. This kinda shit's why I left. The people at the core of the TAS community are the same and will always BE the same because the general attitude of the place tends to drive away people NEW to it.
So get your head outta your ass, Bis. Else you're going to drive everyone new away.
Voting yes. -.-
Ow. This is even worse than what Phil did to Sleepz.
It's true I am little unhappy but well, that's part of the game. Being bad loser isn't the solution.
Bisqwit wrote:
Vatchern wrote:
wow...I see hardly any difference from Phils..
Indeed. I intend to hold this submission until some previous author, such as Phil or Sleepz, at least attempts to beat this record (*).
I don't like allowing people to take honor from others with mere few-frames improvements on a movie that has so much effort invested in like SMB2u.
*) But not indefinitely.
Personally, I don't care if the movie is published or not because I will beat him. But it may take long to do. I need to test several things. But luckily, I already started the run a couple days ago. Now, I must do the warpless and warp version. If only he would have accepted to send me his WIP run...
schneelocke wrote:
It seems to me that the fact that there's been so much effort invested in this game already is a *reason* why improvements these days are only on the order of a few frames.
That's true.
hopper wrote:
Stylistically, I did notice that when Toad throws the Flurry before getting the spaceship in 6-1, the Flurry remains on the ledge instead of falling into the water as in previous runs. Maybe it takes more skill to keep him up there? I don't know. I kind of liked watching the little guy commit hari kiri.
You probably mean 4-1 and I did the same thing. It doesn't require special abilities to do that.
AngerFist wrote:
I dont understand. Why didnt you say this when Phil improved Sleepz run by merely 30-35 frames? Could you see the difference between those runs? I doubt that. Phil did not show anything new, he improved a few jumps, thats all.
No, I did 36 frames faster. Differences were noticeable and I did not improved by just doing better jumps. It's more complicated than that.
Oddity wrote:
Shouldn't Phil/Sleepz be more newbie than the so-called newbie since their time was beaten? Hooray elitism.
As you can notice, many levels are similars. Doing his warpless version, 2 times longer and 2 times more experience than my first attempt at this game and studying my video, obviously, helps him to beat me.
In conclusion, what he found will be very useful in my future movies. There's some things that I wouldn't find myself like apparently moving down with the carpet can help you to jump a little earlier but there's other things that doesn't surprised me like the digging part at 6-1 and improvement at 7-1.
Oh and as promised, I am voting yes.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
DeHackEd wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
Im not sure what you are trying to prove other than to show the differences. But there are no differences, just as there was no difference between Phil and Sleepz movie. Phil's run was accepted which should be without a doubt be in this case too.
Maybe, and the submission describes the differences fairly well.
But people in IRC were asking, and I had nothing better to do.
But you do, killing Drill Man!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Considering Phil's improvement over Sleepz movie was accepted and published I think it's absolutely ridiculous to even suggest that this movie should be put on "hold" or whatever you want to call it. And I don't use words like ridiculuous to describe just anything.
I just don't like to welcome the atmosphere where your hard work of making a entertaining 10-minute movie will be forgotten because someone else made a movie that's 0.3 seconds faster than yours.
It depresses authors easily, especially for newbie authors, who are not confident about "frames" and perfect timing. Knowing that someone can easily beat your work by just making it a frame or two faster (which is always a possibility as long as there are uncertainty sources, such as the precise speed the characters walk and jump), why make a movie at all?
Phil and Sleepz are hardly newbies, though, are they? Quite the opposite - if anything, what you seem to be proposing is, in essence, that newbies can't (easily) obsolete movies done by seasoned players without those seasoned players getting an extra opportunity to keep their records.
But as I said, it's not really the "put the movie on hold for a while so the current author has a chance to beat it again" I find objectable, anyway; it's the apparent idea that this should only apply to veterans. *If* there has to be an imbalance (which I overall think shouldn't be the case), shouldn't it be in favour of the newer players so that they have a better chance of getting something published and will be more motivated?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, of course. :)
To sum up my position, I think that:
a) If a new movie is faster, it should be published, unless it obviously can still be improved (for example, if a new glitch is found, then a movie exploiting that glitch in a sloppy way shouldn't be published even if it is faster; rather, someone should do so in a (near-)perfect way and then submit that.)
b) Entertainment value is good, but it's a very subjective thing; I don't think it should trump time when it comes to evaluating whether a movie should be published. In the specific case of SMB2 (U), I think all the recent movies are more less equally entertaining, anyway; and if a movie is clearly less entertaining than an existing run even though it is faster, somebody (the author of the current published run, for example) can always go and record an improved version that matches the new time but retains the entertainment value of the old run. If that's not possible or if nobody wants to do that... tough luck; then noone should complain about the old movie being obsoleted by the new, less entertaining one, either.
c) (EDITED TO ADD): The question of who recorded a run (whether it's the old or the new one) is completely irrelevant for the purpose of judging the movie and determining whether it should be published or not.
EDIT: On a side note, BTW, I didn't mean to start a heated argument about this - sorry for that. :)
I agree with the "15 minutes of fame" comment. In the world of sports, technology, or just about anything, records are made and broken all the time. When you become the fastest man in the world, you could be the second fastest by the next track meet. As humans, we have a need to continue to compete, to continue to go farther, higher, faster, longer. Those who have their record broken are not entirely forgotten, and no one can ever take away their moment. An athlete trains his whole life to get to the Olympics and have his 15 minutes of fame. He knows his record will be beaten next time, but the quest to have those 15 minutes is worth his lifetime of work. I'm not about to forget Phil's run because of this run, and no one can ever take his 15 minutes away. By the sounds of it, he intends to get another 15 minutes in the near future.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
But this is not the Olympics. This is about Entertaining the audience. This is about Entertainment. Donamers run is hardly any different from Phils run. Not very noticeable to the Human eye(unless you have them side by side thanks to DeHackEd :) ). But the question was "Did you enjoy the movie?". Seeing the same tricks over and over does not make me enjoy the movie.
If you went to a Movie theatre to watch Spiderman. The first movie was done good. But then a new producer got the same crew, and done everything the same, but made it .3 seconds shorter with no new moves or bosses or scenes or anyting. Everyone would want their money back.
Please look at it that way. I stand by my vote.
Well in my opinion short movie is not better than a long movie. In speedruns it is.
First of all, thanks to DeHackEd for his dual-encode. After watching it, I'm voting Meh because I find more style in Phil's movie and he's going to try to improve this version. Still, 19 frames improve is amazing. I never thought it could be done.
Edit: Erm, I already voted yes when I woke up... Oh well.
But that is not why the Olympics started. It was to see who was the Best in several events, squeezing out split seconds out of races, going for the glory.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Vatchern wrote:
Donamers run is hardly any different from Phils run.
And exactly how different was Phils run compared with Sleepz run?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Vatchern wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
Vatchern wrote:
Donamers run is hardly any different from Phils run.
And exactly how different was Phils run compared with Sleepz run?
As i said. I never voted on that movie.
Then you should cease saying you found Donamers run different from Phils because Phils run certainly aint different from Sleepz run. How do you think we felt when we saw Phils run? Was Phils run more entertaining than Sleepz run? F*** No. These kind of comments tick me off, I need Anger Management.
Edit: If you have forgotten what kind of improvements Phil did when he improved Sleepz run, see Phil's former SMB2 submission thread and watch how that ended (Phils argument vs Sleepz).
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
AngerFist wrote:
Vatchern wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
Vatchern wrote:
Donamers run is hardly any different from Phils run.
And exactly how different was Phils run compared with Sleepz run?
As i said. I never voted on that movie.
Then you should cease saying you found Donamers run different from Phils because Phils run certainly aint different from Sleepz run. How do you think we felt when we saw Phils run? Was Phils run more entertaining than Sleepz run? F*** No. These kind of comments tick me off, I need Anger Management.
This excessive layering of quotes is getting confusing ;)
Donamers run is hardly any different from Phils run.
And exactly how different was Phils run compared with Sleepz run?
As i said. I never voted on that movie.
Then you should cease saying you found Donamers run different from Phils because Phils run certainly aint different from Sleepz run. How do you think we felt when we saw Phils run? Was Phils run more entertaining than Sleepz run? F*** No. These kind of comments tick me off, I need Anger Management.
Well then. If everyone felt that way about Phils run, why did it get published. But that is totally off topic and about a different movie. Last time i should have voted and commented, but I never. This time i am. And i was no more entertained with Donamers or either Phils run. I was in fact entertained by Sleepz run. But I guess it also depends a persons opinion of entertainment. If a couple frames improvement seems like entertainment to some people, I guess they will vote yes.
Well then. If everyone felt that way about Phils run, why did it get published. But that is totally off topic and about a different movie. Last time i should have voted and commented, but I never. This time i am. And i was no more entertained with Donamers or either Phils run. I was in fact entertained by Sleepz run. But I guess it also depends a persons opinion of entertainment. If a couple frames improvement seems like entertainment to some people, I guess they will vote yes.
I think that's a moot question, myself. Donamer's run is as entertaining as Phil's run is as entertaining as Sleepz' run - I simply don't see the big difference. On the other hand, though, Donamer's run is faster than Phil's run is faster than Sleepz' run.
Why shouldn't it be published?
And even if Phil's or Sleepz' run was somehow more entertaining... Donamer's is still faster. Make no mistake, I think it's perfectly acceptable to say "we won't publish this just yet so that Phil/Sleepz/just about anyone have a chance to work on an even better version"; so if someone does that, great! (Of course, the same thing should apply to that new run then, too - Donamer should be given a chance to come up with a better version again as well).
But if noone does that (for whatever reason), then I think you cannot justify not publishing Donamer's run.
I don't see the big deal in waiting some time before publishing this one. It was done with Phil's run when it was in workbench; nothing happened, it got published. Same deal here.
And I don't see why this raises such a fuss, it's not Phil who has anything against this movie.
EDIT: I didn't watch the movie and I haven't voted on the poll.
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home."
( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
.
And even if Phil's or Sleepz' run was somehow more entertaining... Donamer's is still faster.
Ok folks. from now on. Take all the entertainment out of movies and just go for speed. Make all the movies 1 frame faster. they should be accepted right schneelocke? "its faster!"
Yeah if anyone's curious about the differences between Phil's and Sleepz version you can just read Phil's submission text.
Oh wait...
Come on, don't start it again. What's the point to write that?
I just thought it was a little funny that there was some confusion about exactly what was improved in your version compared to Sleepz and that people were asking questions about it.
However, it seems to me that you and Vatchern misunderstood. It was a joke.
