Yet another warp run for SMB2u. The strategy for the entire run is pretty much the same as Phil. I took different paths just so everyone could actually see that I was doing something different. This movie was VERY hard to make. Phil did an excellent job manipulating the game to do what he wanted. I went through and found frames I didn't think where there. I spent a very long time on this run. I hope that if I am beaten, that it's not by the number of frames I was able to find, hehe. Anyway, here's the rundown:
1-1: -0[0.000s] - unless someone can beat it faster then 2 or 3 frames, birdo will shoot the egg at teh same time within a few frames.
1-2: -6[0.100s] - I found some very mysterious frames, 4 came from teh carpet ride. I tried for a VERY long time to get this one...the other two were mysteriously from birdo.
1-3: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
4-1: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
4-2: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
6-1: -5[0.083s] - Most of these frames were from the sand digging area. How I managed to squeeze out these guys...I thought that sand area was perfect when I first started.
6-2: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
6-3: -0[0.000s] - Nothing new here.
7-1: -5[0.083s] - I saved a few frames on the ladder glitching part.
7-2: -3[0.050s] - I managed to gain one pixel, and when going for the birdo with the key, I manage to start my forward momentum 2 frames faster. I also saved two frames on the last bird head thing, but when I finished wart I was knocked down a frame.
All in all I saved 19 frames, or 0.317s. This time save was also just enough to make the submission time round down instead of rounding up like Phils'. (previous run is 07:54 and the new one is 07:53)
NesVideoAgent: Hi! I am a robot. I took a few screenshots
of this movie and placed them here.
Here goes!
Ok folks. from now on. Take all the entertainment out of movies and just go for speed. Make all the movies 1 frame faster. they should be accepted right schneelocke? "its faster!"
Indeed. I intend to hold this submission until some previous author, such as Phil or Sleepz, at least attempts to beat this record (*).
I don't like allowing people to take honor from others with mere few-frames improvements on a movie that has so much effort invested in like SMB2u.
*) But not indefinitely.
And did you do this when Phil beat sleepz?
Actually I'm kind of offended by that...I tried really hard on this movie. So you're saying that if Phil can beat mine by one or two frames then his will get published and not mine? That's bullcrap dude, that's killing my honor right off the bat without giving me a chance.
wow...I see hardly any difference from Phils..
[edit with reason]The reason i voted no was because the question is "Did you enjoy watching the movie?"
I did not enjoy watching the movie because I already enjoyed it when i watched Phils and Sleepz. I never voted on Phils(I dont think) because it was almost a second improvement. But this one is not. I was not entertained due to i have seen this before.
It's alright, I can totally understand that. I expected to get at least a couple of no's for that reason.
I don't see a big difference in the entertainment value of these movies, therefore time should matter. If something truly amazing was in the previous movie and the successor lacks any form of entertainment a vote based on entertainment over speed can be considered but we're talking about two runs that look completely identical to the layman. In this case speed should matter.
Indeed. I intend to hold this submission until some previous author, such as Phil or Sleepz, at least attempts to beat this record (*).
I don't like allowing people to take honor from others with mere few-frames improvements on a movie that has so much effort invested in like SMB2u.
*) But not indefinitely.
And did you do this when Phil beat sleepz?
Bisqwit at Phil's SMB2u thread wrote:
I haven't watched this submission yet, so I refrain from voting. In any case, I wouldn't hurry publishing this movie.
So, the practice hasn't changed (as was stated a few times before in this very thread.
EDIT: Ah well, let's link the thread here for good measure. Click.
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home."
( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
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YES vote
Donamer, I am very impressed with your work. There are new tricks despite what some have said (although subtle tricks).
Why are so many un-impressed by this improvement. Did anyone here think that phil run could have been improved by so much? I would have been suprised by any amount over 2 frames. Hell, I wouldn't have been suprised if someone proved phil's was frame perfect. In that light, 19 frames is quite the accomplishment.
I hope donamer continues to do TASes, and I wish him good luck and hope that he continues to suprise us :)
I haven't watched this submission yet, so I refrain from voting. In any case, I wouldn't hurry publishing this movie.
So, the practice hasn't changed (as was stated a few times before in this very thread.
EDIT: Ah well, let's link the thread here for good measure. Click.
Well, that makes me feel a little better...but I still feel underminded just a bit.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
I hope donamer continues to do TASes, and I wish him good luck and hope that he continues to suprise us :)
Beautiful said, you keep surprise us with these fine runs of yours :) In my eyes, you are currently the SMB2 King.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Vatchern wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
In my eyes, you are currently the SMB2 King.
Shouldn't the kings be Sleepz + Genisto. since he did discover the latest tricks to this game.
He has both the warp and warpless run records, he is my King. Sleepz and Genisto are legends for discovering the tricks.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Shouldn't the kings be Sleepz + Genisto. since he did discover the latest tricks to this game.
He has both the warp and warpless run records, he is my King. Sleepz and Genisto are legends for discovering the tricks.
Thank you Angerfist. I do have to agree somewhat with Vatchern, I didn't come up with the biggest time saving tricks. All I did was to try and do them faster...
Edit: and when Phil is done with the warpless run he'll be under 20 minutes. I look forward to seeing his.
I just don't like to welcome the atmosphere where your hard work of making a entertaining 10-minute movie will be forgotten because someone else made a movie that's 0.3 seconds faster than yours.
It depresses authors easily, especially for newbie authors, who are not confident about "frames" and perfect timing. Knowing that someone can easily beat your work by just making it a frame or two faster (which is always a possibility as long as there are uncertainty sources, such as the precise speed the characters walk and jump), why make a movie at all?
Perhaps I speak for myself, but as a newbie author, I'm far more worried that my hard work might sit in the workbench forever like so many other excellent runs than someone beating my time by a few frames obsoleting one of my published runs.
I like the TAS community and dislike the speedrunners (especially the TG ones) because the speedrunners are quite simply elitist assholes who are secretive about tricks and tactics and more interested in keeping their record than seeing a game they love being improved. It's all about their ego, whereas I was under the impression the TAS community was all about collaboratively working to achieve the closest to perfection possible, the runner himself not being overly important, though being experienced and creative does help a lot. Was I wrong?
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
I'm reading this thread and I get the feeling most of you are not getting it.
Some suggested it's about Phil.
Some mention SleepZ.
Some complain about how it caters to the pros.
Some feel personally attacked.
Some feel SMB2 is somehow different.
Some mention how a run should be judged by itself.
Place others options here.
What Bisqwit was saying actually has nothing to do with what was just listed.
If you post a movie which is faster than the previous one, where you happen to hold the title, it's generally accepted immediatly.
If you post a movie which is faster than the previous one, where someone else held the old title, time is given to the previous title holders to beat it, since we don't need one game having it's movie published 5 times that week.
If you post a movie which has no run for it, then it is judged by itself, just like every other one is also judged by itself, but there is no worry of competition.
In this case, Bisqwit, SleepZ, Genisto, and Phil are all old title holders, they are now being given some time to try to outdo this movie, if they fail, this movie will be published, if they succeed in beating it, then Bisqwit, SleepZ, Genisto, Phil, and DonamerDragon will have the option of trying to beat the new movie before it is published.
The rules are not bent in anyway to reflect any particular individual or any particular game.
The rule is in place for two reasons.
1) It's annoying to encode the same movie over and over again in such a short timespan.
2) The new movie is usually based on tricks of the old one, just improved in some ways, the person who contributed the brains behind the previous one should have a small amount of time to protect his intellectual property (gameplay strategy).
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
2) The new movie is usually based on tricks of the old one, just improved in some ways, the person who contributed the brains behind the previous one should have a small amount of time to protect his intellectual property (gameplay strategy).
I pretty much agree with everything else you said otherwise (although I think that not only the old record holders have a "right" to try and beat the new movie; everyone does), but the idea that gameplay strategy could be considered "intellectual property" [1] is just "out there", if I may say so. :)
1. Itself a meaningless term - there exist copyright, trademarks, patents, and similar things, but to lump them all together as "intellectual property" not only blurs the lines between several very distinct concepts but also fails to recognise that *none* of these even *are* property in the same sense that physical objects can be. Patents and copyrights are time-limited monopolies granted by the state as part of a deal (i.e., in order to encourage the creation of creative works and technologies; and copyrights also only apply to specific creative expressions, not ideas), and trademarks, while not inherently time-limited, have to be actively used and defended in order to remain trademarks.
Given that, I'm not sure what kind of "intellectual property" a strategy for a game should be at all - none of the above can be applied to game strategies in any meaningful way. Of course, acknowledging the giants on whose shoulders you're standing should go without saying really, but the idea that there is a strict legal requirement to do so... that's quite bizarre. :)
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
I had a feeling someone would say that.
I didn't mean he owns the method to the game, he just has a right to reclaim what was his when someone copied him.
And yes, everyone is able to attempt to beat the current movie, however the old title holders are specifically queried if they are still around; since they more than anybody would try to beat it and have a submission war insue.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
I had a feeling someone would say that.
I didn't mean he owns the method to the game, he just has a right to reclaim what was his when someone copied him.
And yes, everyone is able to attempt to be the current movie, however the old title holders are specifically queried if they are still around.
A legal right... no. A moral right... sure, but then, everyone does. :) I think the grace period before a new movie is published should be there to make sure that the movie won't be obsoleted again in a few days already, but that's about it.
Oh well. Sorry for nitpicking. ^.^
Perhaps I speak for myself, but as a newbie author, I'm far more worried that my hard work might sit in the workbench forever like so many other excellent runs than someone beating my time by a few frames obsoleting one of my published runs.
I like the TAS community and dislike the speedrunners (especially the TG ones) because the speedrunners are quite simply elitist assholes who are secretive about tricks and tactics and more interested in keeping their record than seeing a game they love being improved. It's all about their ego, whereas I was under the impression the TAS community was all about collaboratively working to achieve the closest to perfection possible, the runner himself not being overly important, though being experienced and creative does help a lot. Was I wrong?
like so many other runs indeed, ones that have just sat in the submission queue and rotted away.
I would just wait one week (the standard, I'd guess) to see what people thought of the movie... if there's no mention of a new run for the game being made right away, publish it if it is deemed publishable.
Making a new movie for this game would take a while -- at least a week (this isn't Monopoly, guys)... I really don't see why we have to wait so long for it to finish.
Also, whoever was blabbing about 'intellectual property' of gameplay paths: puh-leez. Lots of times, paths are a collaberation of several people, etc...
And, one last thing: all of you need to take one hell of a chill pill:
032311p> <adelikat> whew, I was worried that controversy was dying down
I mean, when something like this pops up, you know you're being far too serious.
But my point is, How can a movie be entertaining if it doesn't add anything really "New". If it LOOKS like the previous movie, how can that be considered entertainment. No doubt, 19 frames is a great improvement, but that isn't the question.
But my point is, How can a movie be entertaining if it doesn't add anything really "New". If it LOOKS like the previous movie, how can that be considered entertainment. No doubt, 19 frames is a great improvement, but that isn't the question.
There are two main goals:
* Aims for entertainment
* Aims for as fast as possible
This run does not aim for the first one.
