Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Did you read my post? I said I was in favor of having this new run obsolete mine. I was merely stating that Saturn brings up a valid argument too.
And no, this game should not have 12 different runs. I think there should be 3 different types of run.
1. new game+, quickest ending, starts from save file.
2. quickest run, clean sram, obsoletes my run.
3. full completion, resurrects chrono, gets best ending possible.
But if you think his argument's valid, then that means you agree with him!
and okay full completion, show me a full completion, what's so great about a full completion
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Personally, I hope anybody who does an improvement TAS uses the Japanese version. I feel that if you want to read the text or know the plot, you can play the game yourself. Less time spent mashing through dialogue means more time in battle and doing things that can actually be interesting, and it even lowers your final time as an added bonus.
About endings, I'd say three categories for this game make sense: fastest New Game completion (regardless of ending), fastest New Game+ completion, and fastest New Game 100% completion (sidequests, like SDA's 100% category).
Hi! I'm inichi, who set up 3:49 in game completion time by using console.I'm very surprised to see that you discuss my record and try to translate my Japanese report into English.Though my English is poor, I'll be pleased to answer any questions you may have about my record and report.
To hero of the day
Without watching your run, I would never try to challenge Chrono Trigger Time Attack.Without using your beautiful strategy in most Boss battles until Magus, I couldn't set up this record.
I appreciate you.
I feel that if you want to read the text or know the plot, you can play the game yourself.
For the gazillionth time, it's not because of the plot that I want people to use the English version, it's because of the commands used in battle etc. I don't want to be left wondering what the hell just happened.
EDIT: I also don't get how lowering your completion time by just using a different version is impressive or in any way cool. If anything it takes away from the impressiveness of the final time because people who have only played the English version (which is most of the people who are going to watch the run) don't know how much time is cut because of the version change and how much from good strategy.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
inichi wrote:
To hero of the day
Without watching your run, I would never try to challenge Chrono Trigger Time Attack.Without using your beautiful strategy in most Boss battles until Magus, I couldn't set up this record.
I appreciate you.
Thank you inichi, and welcome to TASvideos. I really appreciate this new strategy that you made for your time attack, it is a very clever idea. I am happy that my run could help you in any way.
concerning which version tu use: actually, i was thinking that using the japanese version would make it easier to compare to the unassisted run. if i do make a run in japanese and everyone wants to see it in english, i'll also do one in english; maybe then i'll submit both and see which get published.
Two points:
1) Why would you be comparing to the unassisted run instead of the assisted one? That goes against the spirit of TASing.
2) Language selection is very, very important in RPGs. English is understood by 98% of this site's users. Japanese is understood by <10% of this site's users.
Please consider this when selecting your rom version.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
1) Why would you be comparing to the unassisted run instead of the assisted one? That goes against the spirit of TASing.
How? Why can't you compare?
Kyrsimys wrote:
Saying that TAS and speedrun times shouldn't be compared is retarded. The stupid saying originated when some people over at the speedrunning community felt offended by TASes and the people here tried to be as politically correct as possible and went overboard.
Of course the times should be compared, the most interesting thing about the time is how much faster it is than the speedrun. There's nothing wrong about it. Even a mongoloid understands that you're not comparing the times directly and thus putting the speedrun time down because the TAS is faster.
upthorn wrote:
2) Language selection is very, very important in RPGs. English is understood by 98% of this site's users. Japanese is understood by <10% of this site's users.
So? So you admit the RPG runs are just big storyfests, or what?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
It would be a good option to not replace his run with this new one but add it in another category, simply because it indeed cuts out alot of the game story and shows a amazingly cool Lavos strategy with Magus, which alone is worth a look.
STOP IT
I'm sick of people who are too scared to obsolete anything. It's not as if the obsoleted movie doesn't have its own page you can always refer back to. And how is the category any different?
Those who can read are in advantage sometimes:
Saturn in the previous post also wrote:
On the other hand, the goals of both movies are pretty identical to aim for lowest possible time, so it's a problem to properly decide again.
I didn't say the new one must not obsolete the current one. It was just a thought.
And welcome to TASvideos inichi! Glad you joined, that way we might get much better support while planning the new route with you. :-)
Regarding the ROM language problem:
upthorn has a excellent point. It's much more useful for us to compare how much time another TAS with this new route can save to the current one. Comparing anything to the console run that isn't even available in video is kind of lame, and I think picking the japanese version just because of that would lead to disappointment of most members here as well.
I can't imagine a situation where I'd watch a pure speed TAS for story. Especially Chrono Trigger, this route cuts out so much of the story that it's pointless.
For the 100%, it'd probably be better to go in English because the point is to showoff the story. In the any% you're skipping over so much that you might as well use the Japanese version, especially if the text scrolls faster.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
I would like to offer my opinion on the version switch. It's identical to Kyrsimys's thoughts, so I'll just quote him:
"For the gazillionth time, it's not because of the plot that I want people to use the English version, it's because of the commands used in battle etc. I don't want to be left wondering what the hell just happened."
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
But you speed through the menus so fast anyway! Can't you watch what the characters are doing to figure it out?
I definitely agree with this statement. I believe that by watching the animations, you'll easily know what attack was used. Same goes for items, just watch how much they heal (200 on one person is obviously a Mid Tonic, for example)...or what stat is raised (in the case of Tabs).
This becomes slightly more difficult in the area of equipment, but you should be able to tell some of it from the area they pick stuff up in. But to make things easier, I believe the author should write detailed comments about what is picked up and when it is equipped. That way, if you get confused, just look at the comments and it will all make sense again.
It's a video. I want to watch it, not read about it. Seriously, it completely ruins the mood when you're not able to see what's going on. I don't know the game well enough to know every single attack animation/piece of equipment/item by heart. It's like watching a movie with subtitles, it's just so much more comfortable and makes watching the movie a lot more pleasant.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Kitsune, there is no video for the 3:39 run (which is not a 100% run anyway). Kyrsimys was talking in hypothetical terms, for a future run. If you want to see a 100% completion run, check out the one on the speed demo archives.
Kitsune, there is no video for the 3:39 run (which is not a 100% run anyway). Kyrsimys was talking in hypothetical terms, for a future run. If you want to see a 100% completion run, check out the one on the speed demo archives.
Which is still not a true 100% run. :-)
It just completes all quests, but for 100% you should get all possible items as well (like in Metroid games). If you can handle ZSNES you should check my 100% one (downloadable on my site in the ZSNES section), which gets absolutely everything that is possible to get.
It's a video. I want to watch it, not read about it. Seriously, it completely ruins the mood when you're not able to see what's going on. I don't know the game well enough to know every single attack animation/piece of equipment/item by heart. It's like watching a movie with subtitles, it's just so much more comfortable and makes watching the movie a lot more pleasant.
Well, that info could then be mentioned in the subtitles, right?
Unfortunately I can never get those ZSNES Emulators to work right Saturn.
Too bad you didn't wait until SNES9X, hehe.
I tried watching the SDA run, but it's just confusing. Because then you have to memorize where to stop watching the main run and switch to the 100% segments.
I'll just wait until a true 100% is made. ;3
Well, that info could then be mentioned in the subtitles, right?
Why use subtitles when you don't have to? What really is so especially good about using the Japanese version anyway? As I stated before, a lower final time is not a good excuse to use the Japanese version.
Normally, I'd be all for using the Japanese version, but I'm actually pretty convinced that English would be the better way to go.
I'm kinda curious about an all-sidequests run... would any of the extra items offset the time spent leveling, or do the current runs pick the game clean of the best stuff?
For that matter, would the Lavos battle be faster using Ayla's dino tail (as in the new time attack, if I recall/translate correctly) combined with Magus's attack-spamming?
I imagine Marle would cast haste on Magus. Ayla uses dino tail, killing the left bit, then she either uses it again to possibly finish off the middle body, and/or gets smacked down, allowing Magus to fully go nuts.
Should I shut up because I have no intention of investigating any of this myself? ;)
Has anyone noticed how interesting it is that the Guru of Reason winds up at the end of time, the Guru of Time winds up at the end of life, and the Guru of Life winds up at the end of reason?
Eh, not quite. Balthazar is the guru of reason, and he gets sent to the future. I'm not sure if that makes it more or less "interesting".
It's a bit off topic, at any rate. The forum over at www.chronocompendium.com digs this kind of thing, though.
