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GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (849)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 514
Location: Hell...
I have tried that and it seems to cause Eirika's death...
Current projects: failing at life
Rolanmen1
He/Him
Experienced player (752)
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic
GoddessMaria15 wrote:
I have tried that and it seems to cause Eirika's death...
One thing doesn't have to do with the other, you just need to manipulate some RNs.
Joined: 1/25/2011
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1742778499/gomess%20FE8%20test.vbm Hello i´m new here so sorry if there are some mistakes. This videos show new ways to complete some chapters. Sorry for my bad english
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Prologue looks great. Chapter 1 could be done faster if you disarm Eirika. Chapter 2 looks great, Garcia crits ftw. If you can net a counterattack crit on Bone, it would be much better. Seth would also like some Speed on his level up. Otherwise, nice job so far.
Joined: 1/25/2011
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
It takes too much time to manipulate a crit on Bone. The only problem of chapter 2 is that Vanessa doesn´t win any EXP
GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (849)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 514
Location: Hell...
Interesting WIP Gomess, though as Toothache mentioned, trading Eirika's items to Seth would be faster. Also it'd be interesting to play around with things a little for that crit. And in other news(?), I have an improvement(sorta) to my previous WIP which manages to fix a major problem in the previous attempt. Fixed WIP Encode
Current projects: failing at life
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Ugh, that manipulation on Ch1 looks horrid, and is certainly sub-optimal. Rather than manipulating on two turns, cut it down to a single longer manipulation on Turn 1. It also avoid the horrible move situation Seth finds himself in during turn 2.
Rolanmen1
He/Him
Experienced player (752)
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic
Aside from what Toothache said, you have made some progress on the RNG part, only thing you should know is where to move the cursor to manipulate. I added you to my MSN so we can be on contact.
Joined: 1/25/2011
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1767275399/gomess%20FE8%20test.vbm Chapter 4 Again it was faster to kill the boss in two hits, than to manipulate a crit on him
Rolanmen1
He/Him
Experienced player (752)
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic
*Don't Auto-Fire the Start Button to skip cutscenes *Desactivate Subtitle Help *Why Killing the Boss with Eirika *Don't Save, Press B instead *Disarm Eirika before dropping her in the turn before seizing *Give Seth Speed in every level up *Critical the Boss in chapter 2 *Critical the Boss in chapter 3 I congratulate you for using the RNG so good, but do you use both scripts to TAS this? And why Normal Mode? A TAS should go for the Hardest Mode if it's available from the beginning.
Joined: 1/25/2011
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
*I have to stop being lazy *Forget about this *She has a higher chance of landing a crit And what´s wrong about she killing the boss? *No idea why I decided to save the game *Also forget about this *Another thing I forget *Takes to much time, it´s faster to kill him in two hits *Same thing as above I will redo everything from the start, and I will play in the hard mode this time
Rolanmen1
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Experienced player (752)
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 569
Location: Dominican Republic
Letting Eirika kills the boss implies she getting way more experience, making the experience bar to long more, Seth doesn't get a level up for killing him, plus, you can make him critical the boss with a little more of RN Burning, you can easily see this if you use the RNG Script.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I'm having trouble running Dolphin properly (apparently my computer is garbage), so I'm taking this on as a side project. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1308969828/Vykan12-SacredStonesWIP.vbm 65 frames ahead of Cheetah's run thus far, wasn't expecting such a big improvement from just beating the prologue. My only concern is that I've already thrown away 2 silver lance uses. I don't think that's an issue though, as the weapon's hardly 1HKOing as it is, so its usefulness in that capacity is short lived.
Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Vykan12 wrote:
I'm having trouble running Dolphin properly (apparently my computer is garbage), so I'm taking this on as a side project. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1308969828/Vykan12-SacredStonesWIP.vbm 65 frames ahead of Cheetah's run thus far, wasn't expecting such a big improvement from just beating the prologue. My only concern is that I've already thrown away 2 silver lance uses. I don't think that's an issue though, as the weapon's hardly 1HKOing as it is, so its usefulness in that capacity is short lived.
Playing on hard mode will make the run longer in a lot of places (basically any time an enemy now requires a crit where it didn't before, e.g. the chapter 2 bandit which Vanessa now only 5HKOs instead of 4HKOing), but hopefully the run won't be slower overall. Can't imagine it would be, I've noticed a lot of glaring mistakes myself, just haven't had any real desire to do the run over again.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Chapter 1 Man, that was exhausting. 717 frames ahead of the cheetah. Some interesting things I found out: -I didn't have Seth crit the boss for a reason. Surprisingly, a crit counter only saves 41 frames compared to a regular KO. This is signifcantly less than the amount of frames lost from RNG manipulation required to get that crit along with a decent level-up. -Also to my surprise, having the boss hit Seth takes exactly the same number of frames as having Seth dodge his attack.
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
I guess the same frame rules apply in this game as well as FE6. Each attack and miss there takes around 40 frames, but if the amount of HP lost is past a certain number, the extra remainder adds 1 frame for every HP above that threshold. I never did measure precisely where that threshold is though.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Chapter 3 ==== Notes ==== Chapter 1 (quick revision): Lost 17 frames to give Seth a level-up that includes skill. The added hit and crit should easily save time in the long-run. Chapter 2: I didn’t have Garcia crit the archer because it required too much manipulation. I would’ve been fine if he didn’t switch to the hand axe for no reason. 1126 frames ahead at this point. Chapter 3: Turn 1: The reason I use Gilliam here is to set up a convenient trade with Vanessa. She needs an iron lance to 1HKO the fighter. I have Garcia attack the 2nd wall early for a reason. I get a quick critical manipulation for the fighter he faces, and weaken the archer enough for Vanessa to kill without even needing a critical. Vanessa’s in desperate need of exp right now, as she needs two slim lance crits in a row just to kill fighters. Turn 2: Seth trades with Vanessa for 2 reasons: First, she needs to equip the slim lance to increase her crit chance against the thief. Second, I have to get the vulnerary and door key out of her inventory, otherwise the thief will steal it instead of attacking. Turn 3: It may seem odd that I have to skip across the screen from Seth to Franz and back, but this was the only way I could find to burn more than 2 RNs per frame. Since Seth only has 1 crit on the boss, it’s more time-effective to just manipulate his level-up. 1490 frames ahead. Surprising too, considering all the time I’m losing to appease Vanessa.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Up to Chapter 5X ==== Notes ==== Chapter 4 Trading Seth a javelin in-base takes around 114 frames. However, changing Gilliam’s placement in the formation costs around 85 frames. It’s pretty obvious Seth’s trade with Gilliam takes less than 29 frames, so I went with that. I also concluded by eye that moving Ross is faster than removing him from the lineup. It would probably be faster to kill all 3 monsters in the northwest side of the map on player phase, but again, Vanessa desperately needs to get that str up. 1426 frames ahead overall (64 frame loss). Seems I lost some ground on chapter 4. This isn’t surprising as I had to include Garcia in the mix to compensate for Artur’s offence, and the enemy phase manipulations were much more intense due to requiring more criticals for kills. Chapter 5 Turn 1: I had to grapple with a tough decision here. Have Seth use the silver lance, and 1HKO 4/5 enemies he faces, including Joshua, or have him use a steel sword, and let the hat man live? Turns out both outcomes come out about the same frame-wise, so the swordsman gets to breathe another day. Also manipulated an enemy phase critical to save a few frames. Nothing remarkable aside from that. 959 frames ahead overall (467 frame loss). Obviously Seth not being able to 1HKO any enemy he faced with a steel sword was the reason for this loss. He can still 1HKO with the silver lance, but it’s reduced to 6 uses at the beginning of the chapter, and as I explained before, sparing Joshua is on par with using the silver lance on turn 1. Chapter 5x Turn 2: I hand off Ephraim to Forde so that Orson can 1HKO the archer. When Orson’s holding Ephraim, his skill is reduced such that he has no crit rate on the archer. Similarly, later on I drop Ephraim so that Orson can 1RKO the shaman and fighter near the 1 space corridor. These are both adjustments to hard mode, and probably cost a few frames. 1433 frames ahead overall (474 frame gain). The bulk of the improvement probably comes from disarming Ephraim for the last turn.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Chapter 5X improvement + lag reduction After having watched Toothache's FE6 WIP frame by frame, I learned some advanced tricks I wasn't previously aware of, and managed to save 61 frames overall due to tiresome amounts of hex editing. Also, Rolanmen1 made me aware that changing some of the options would reduce lag in the long run. I managed to save 86 frames because of this. That puts me 1580 frames ahead overall. Now, I'm kind of stuck until I can get the code for making fog of war disappear.
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
In Ch2, would it not save time for Vanessa to hand Ross over to Moulder, so that once Garcia is done killing things she can rescue him and remove the Other Phase messages? Also, does Eirika need such a large level up? Ch3: Why not kill Bazba on player phase with a crit rather than a double attack on enemy phase? Other than that, things are progressing nicely. You didn't scroll the screen in 5x for one of the cav kills however, so there's still slight room for improvement.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I found an awesome trick that saves a few frames on possibly every single character move in the game! There’s a 1 frame window 4-5 frames before the cursor shows up on your character. By inputting in this window, you can select characters, do L switches, etc, 1-2 frames faster than usual. I’m still testing this out, but this is going to save so many frames in the long run. Because of this trick, I’ve manage to improve up to Chapter 5X yet again. This should be the last improvement before I move forward to chapter 6. I went through every single input frame-by-frame, which, while exhausting as hell, got me another 122 frames. 1702 frames ahead overall. That’s almost half a minute, perhaps the goal of a sub hour run can be achieved after all.
In Ch2, would it not save time for Vanessa to hand Ross over to Moulder, so that once Garcia is done killing things she can rescue him and remove the Other Phase messages?
I tested this and your strategy actually costs 64 frames. The problem is that only 1 “Other Phase” screen is prevented by rescuing both characters, which doesn’t compensate for the time required to perform those extra movements.
Also, does Eirika need such a large level up?
I would assume she needs it, the strength is important for a bosskill in chapter 7, and her hp/avo are very important for reducing lategame manipulations when she gets dropped near the throne on the last turn. Also, huge level-ups are flashy and could pass off as a speed/entertainment trade-off :P
Ch3: Why not kill Bazba on player phase with a crit rather than a double attack on enemy phase?
1% crit rate makes the manipulation too time costly. If I want Seth to be getting str/skl/spd on his level-up, the odds of this happening with a critical is only 0.1025%, and that’s without factoring in hit rate.
Other than that, things are progressing nicely. You didn't scroll the screen in 5x for one of the cav kills however, so there's still slight room for improvement.
I checked through 5x carefully and couldn’t find the improvement you were referring to :/ You’ll have to give me the exact frames it happens.
Editor, Player (94)
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does that new trick work in the other gba fire emblem games?
Active player (283)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
Vykan12 wrote:
Now, I'm kind of stuck until I can get the code for making fog of war disappear.
3202BCFD 0000 I've been kind of distracted/busy recently, so I haven't gotten around to looking at the current WIPs yet. I will rectify this situation in the near future.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Up to Chapter 8 Overall frames saved Chapter 6: 47431-43682 = 3749 frames (~62 seconds) Chapter 7: 51704-48252 = 3452 frames (~58 seconds) Chapter 8: 61206-59090 = 2116 frames (~35 seconds) Net frames saved Chapter 6: +2087 (~35 seconds) Chapter 7: -297 (~5 seconds) Chapter 8: -1336 (~22 seconds) ===== Notes ===== I had to hex edit some trades in chapters 1-5, which ended up costing me about 30 frames compared to the latest WIP I posted. Chapter 6: I save a huge amount of time here by better positioning Seth on turn 2, which results in killing a lot less enemies. I also amuse myself with the cursor a little because of the lag that fog of war causes. And, the reason Seth doesn’t crit the boss is because he doesn’t have a crit rate on him. Unlike normal mode, the boss has 8 luck, which prevents Seth from critting even though I got him skl on every level-up so far. I don’t even make the boss miss because I have to manipulate the enemy stats for the next chapter. Chapter 7: The strategy is virtually identical to cheetah’s run. I considered a 2 turn, but it’s impossible because the boss will attack Vanessa at 2 range, and she can barely damage him with any weapon she uses. The time lost here is due to additional RN manipulations. On normal mode, Vanessa will be ORKOing those archers without a crit. Chapter 8: Again, very similar strategy. I deploy Vanessa here because there’s a mercenary that moves, but won’t suicide into Seth because he’s long gone move-wise by then. Instead of having the merc move every turn, I let him suicide into Vanessa. As a side-advantage, this also makes 2 soldiers attack Vanessa instead of Seth, giving her a much needed level-up and extra xp. I’m surprised how much time is lost here, aside from the few hundred frames of extra RN manipulations, there are more enemies on this map than on normal mode. Most notably, there are 2 mages near the boss that attack Seth after he disposes of their leader. Don’t expect an update in a while. The next 3 chapters are all rout maps, which take a considerable amount of time to plan and test, let alone execute.
does that new trick work in the other gba fire emblem games?
Yes.
Player (98)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
This post is more or less me thinking out loud about chapter 9, which I've discovered to be a complete nightmare. First problem, hard mode adds a few pirates to the mix. This creates 2 problems: first, Vanessa gets attacked twice, even with a slim lance equipped she’s facing hit rates of around 64 display hit (~74 true hit). Here’s some probability breakdowns: Vanessa gets hit twice and dies: 54.76% Vanessa gets hit ½ times: 38.48% Vanessa dodges both attacks: 6.76% The most favourable outcome is already in the realm of probability of a critical hit. If we let Vanessa take a hit, that creates more burden of manipulation on future turns, though she will have more avoid to work with. And, obviously I have to actually kill those pirates. This is made more annoying by the fact that 2/4 of them have hand axes. There is actually a way to get all 4 of those pirates attacked on turn 1 enemy phase. See picture below. Since Artur can be 1HKOed, the pirates prefer attacking him to Vanessa, even when both are in range. Problem is, Artur can’t 1HKO back, even with a crit, and he can only double the ones that use a steel axe. Garcia can achieve a 1HKO, but he has 1 crit. Eirika can too, but she’s only in range of 1 pirate since we can’t change her starting position. Also, she can’t 1HKO unless I manipulate enemy stats, and she can’t double either. So, while this doesn’t prevent a 4 turn completion, it does put a serious strain on time lost (requiring 2 rounds of combat on most of those pirates) and manipulation (Artur surviving, tons of crits). Oh, it gets better. On Cheetah’s run, the mercenaries were doing 0 damage to Kyle, and he could cleanly 2HKO them with a javelin. Now the mercenaries double him for a total of 8 damage, and he can’t 2HKO even if he uses a javelin + steel lance combination. Also, on normal mode the promoted archer is weaker than a normal one, and Kyle ORKOes with a javelin. Now he can’t even double or crit (the sniper has 8 luck!), and he 4HKOes with a steel lance, which, if he equips, will get him doubled and reduced from full hp to 1. I think the worst part is, he only has 3 crit before factoring in enemy luck. He needs 2 level-ups before he has 4 crit, and the enemies he faces have 3-4 luck. So, even if I pull off godly manipulations, those enemies will still take a while to KO. The only way to salvage his offence is with slim lance criticals, and even then he still needs 2 rounds of combat to take out mercs. Tl;dr Kyle sucks now. There’s no chance in hell he could handle the west side of the map. I thought of having him and Forde team up for player phase kills, but that creates its own set of problems, in that Forde sucks even harder on enemy phase. The only high-move units I have left are Tana, who’s busy with a pirate way left from the group of other pirates, and Franz, whose bases are worse than Kyle/Forde. So, unless I’m missing something obvious, goodbye 4 turn. This is really bad because now I have to kill an extra 6 reinforcements including Amelia. ========= 5 Turn plan ========= My tentative idea is to have Tana ferry Seth to the south, and have Vanessa handle the west side. Let’s start with the south: With this set-up, Eirika kills 1 pirate with a rapier crit (not too hard), and Seth ORKOes the remaining pirates easily with a javelin (only slight hitrate issues). Next turn, Seth moves up to Tana, and she’s in exactly the same position as Vanessa is optimally starting on in turn 1. Nice. The bigger concern is the west. Vanessa’s offence with a javelin sucks, and there’s three 1-2 range enemies she has to face (2 archers and a mage reinforcement). She also has to kill 2 pirates that are moving away from her on player phase. Apparently they’d rather burn villages than attack Vanessa, and this is highly problematic. A quick runthrough using some codebreaker codes tells me that even in the best case scenario that Vanessa gets all the player phase crits she wants and at least 1 enemy phase critical, she still has a lot of trouble taking out all the enemies in 5 turns. Of note, she has a hell of a time taking out the sniper. Without the slim lance, she’s forced to 2 round. With it, she can only 1RKO by procuring 2 crits in a row, a measly 0.16% chance. Getting that on player phase is in the realm of burning 1000 RNs, and burning RNs at a generous rate of 5 RNs per seconds, that’s 200 frames, or over 3 seconds of cursor movement just to kill that 1 pesky enemy. When you factor in Vanessa having to crit, possibly levelling up (desperately needs str/skl/spd on every one, possibly even force def now), all the dodges she has to make, particularly from those archer 1HKOes, and other irritating factors like hit rates, we’re talking about manipulation hell on each turn. I’m starting to think the optimal strategy here is to have Seth do a C turn around the map, even though that means the map will take at least 6 turns. This kind of combat failure will be short lived fortunately, as I’m receiving some awesome units in the upcoming chapters: Gerik, Tethys, Innes, Saleh (!!!), and Dozla make units like Kyle and Forde look like complete chumps.
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