Topic by minglw

Posted: 8/21/2006 2:45 PM

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minglw

Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 269

For the YI2 beginning, I think #1 to #4 are about the same. I do like #3 or #4 a small bit more than #1 and #2. They look more stylish. I like #5 the least. It might be a bit more entertaining (probably a tiny bit slower) to watch to let the shell keep going and collect 5 or 6 1-ups. That's a choice between speed and entertainment.

Posted: 8/21/2006 10:15 PM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

minglw: Yes the 6 up is an entertaining option that was considered, but jimsfriend (who is making a small-only SMW console run) is doing that and I want to try and be original. With this is mind, skamastaG said he wants to do option #1 because he has had more practice with it and it is the most original (I didnt realize it when I made the videos, but options 3/4 are almost exactly what VIPer and flagitious do in their TAS). So looks like it's option 1, thanks for the input everyone.

Posted: 8/21/2006 11:50 PM

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skamastaG

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Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

4 is almost identical to the flagitious/viper7 run and 2 is almost identical to fabian's run. I personally like 1 the most but 3 is also really cool. If everyone likes 3 the most then I will probably do that. They are about the same difficulty to perform.

Posted: 8/22/2006 12:15 AM

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Twisted_Eye

He/Him

Active player (332)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA

Ya know, I have no problem with 1 being the one at all, if 3 is too similar to a run already done, yep

Posted: 8/23/2006 4:12 AM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Reply from "Contest Idea" topic being moved here: skamastaG, that sounds like a pretty ambitious project for your first TAS. I would really enjoy wacthing it and helping out with it though, it sounds like a cool idea to me. Just picture Fabian's Awesome, but in every level. ;) Also, if you're going to work on small stuff, maybe you can finally prove if corner boosting works on land or not. I swear you jolt forward a bit when you hit a corner just right, but maybe you dont always save a frame. Check out frames 31080-31111 in JXQ's 11 video (near the end of the dark room in Bowser's Castle, right after he gets the 1up). If you watch it using frame advance, there is definately a noticeable teleportation that occurs (though it's more down that forward in this case). Since this was done on accident, I'm guessing if you could do it even better if you tried to hit the corner in just the right way. Now we just need to finish/actually do some recording for our 11 run!!

Posted: 8/24/2006 2:31 AM

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mrz

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Joined: 8/24/2006
Posts: 119
Location: New York City

wow i saw vipers 86 exit speed run, its awesome!

Posted: 8/24/2006 2:38 AM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Its a 96 exit run, and that has been obsoleted by Fabian's new run. If you were impressed by VIPer's, check out Fabian's, its even better.

Posted: 8/24/2006 2:52 AM

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skamastaG

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Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

I will check the corner boosting tonight if I have time. I have a question about Super Demo World I got the key exit for crystal star world but not the key exit for cyrstal castle but on the world map I can go from crystal castle to star world as if I got the key exit for CC. Does that count as the CC key exit I do I still have to get that? I still haven't watched the 120 exit run yet but I am waiting until I beat Demo World on my own first. I doubt I will find all of the exits. Maybe I will watch it when I get to 100. I have 80 right now. About the small run, I am still thinking about it. The hardest thing will be deciding when to use the hop glitch and when to 8/5. In groovy, for example, I don't think you can do that tricky maneuver at the end where you hit the pirckly with the shell and jump through the way JXQ did it if uyou use the hop glitch. I think you would have to run and do the 8/5 trick but then it would be slower. Maybe getting the star proves to be faster than the one trick if you hop glitch. I dont know. It will be a pretty annoying run to do. I am not sure if this is a good first TAS since it will be over an hour and because it is well known game and I will be criticized on every single little mistake.

Posted: 8/24/2006 2:58 AM

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Fabian

Former player

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

skamastaG, It just sounds like the creator of the game overlooked that Crystal Castle/Star World thing. There's still a secret exit in Crystal Castle you need to find. I'm not really sure what you mean in Groovy, but I think you might need to get a shell, then start hopping. I imagine that being the case in lots of levels by the way. Also, a small nitpick, it's called 6/5 now, the trick has been updated slightly. Details on SuperMarioWorldTricks.html

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/24/2006 3:10 AM

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skamastaG

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Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

OK, I thought you made a typo when you said 6/5. I get it now. Dang, I was hoping that counted as the CC key exit. It was hard enough the first time, now I have to look for the key exit. There is a video of the groovy trick somewhere in that SDA individual records topic. If I find it I will give you the link. JXQ made the video but Jimsfriend posted the link. Near the end where there is a wall of pricklies that you can't jump over without losing run, JXQ threw a shell at the bottom body segment then spinjumped through the gap that was made. EDIT: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1290/groovy.smv

Posted: 8/24/2006 4:26 AM

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jimsfriend

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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

6/5??? That's a bummer. I am currently w/o a TV so it seems I have wasted a lot of time in the past couple of days using 8/5. Although I did find something else that's pretty cool, might edit a link to it later tomorrow or something. For SDW. And also for the sake of the walljump discussion in that other topic wherever it is, I've been trying to make one happen for about 3 hours, and still no success.

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Posted: 8/24/2006 4:27 AM

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Fabian

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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

So you've started work on an SDW run? How's it going, how far along are you etc? Links would be nice, cool new stuff is awesome. Good luck!

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/24/2006 4:31 AM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

jimsfriend, you're still going to finish your console run though right? I was really looking forward to that. If you are still planning on doing it, how is the progress coming? If not, you should just submit that semi-decent run you had that you posted about on SDA a while back (the one where you got SW4 perfect). Walljumping isnt that hard on console, its more luck than anything else.

Posted: 8/24/2006 4:36 AM

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jimsfriend

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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

Actually, yes. DS2 didn't work out because you can't take yoshi into those pipes. And the trick doesn't work without Yoshi. Plus, I couldn't manage to get on Yoshi and hold the key at the same time, although I know it is possible. Kind of like that wall jump that eluded me today. And I don't have anything that I actually mind losing and having to redo because I couldn't figure out how to continue adding onto the end of a movie after you hit "stop movie" or whatever the command is so you can go to class or something. I'm sure the solution is simple, but I couldn't figure it out. Mostly I've been working on Misty Isle just messing around and getting used to the process. For the record, 8/5 (and I'm sure 6/5 too) sucks on level ground, but when the elevation changes it is even worse. Regular run will resume when I get a tv/vcr setup in my dorm, and any TAS project would be put on hold. To give you an idea when that might happen... my birthday is October 27. If I am never able to do anything more to it, I will submit the screwed up run.

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Posted: 8/24/2006 4:42 AM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

jimsfriend, would you mind sharing a little more details about your SDW run? I assume you're doing 120 exits with no restrictions like small only, right? What cool new tricks have you figured out? How are you planning to save time over the current run? I think this SDW run will be really cool, and good luck finishing that small run once and for all.

Posted: 8/24/2006 4:43 AM

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Fabian

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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

Here's a quick guide: 1. First time. Record movie. Simple enough 2. Do stuff until you're bored. Make a savestate where you want to continue next time (optional). Stop Movie. When you want to continue the next day or whenever: 3a. Load movie in Read Only Mode. Make a savestate where you want to continue. This is not needed if you made the savestate last session. 3b. Load movie without Read Only Mode checked. Load savestate. You're now recording again. Also, make backups in case you mess something up. I actually started working on Misty Isle for fun the other day when my internet was out and I had nothing to do. I did the first 1½ levels. I agree that 6/5 is a huge pain.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/24/2006 4:54 AM
(Edited: 8/24/2006 5:31 AM)

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jimsfriend

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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

I bet my first level is faster than yours. At least... if the link isn't broken or something, and if I didn't make some silly subtraction error. Although I did lose 5 frames in the Welcome to Dinosaur Land! screen, and I realized today that I usually start Mario's movement one frame later than I should in all cases. I'll edit in more levels with commentary as I go. mi2 has an unoptimal shell grab and not much fancy stuff because 8/5 is so annoying. Chun-li shell trick concept by me, first demonstrated by JXQ, although I might have been the only person to see that demo, not sure if I posted the link somewhere. Notice in both this level and mi1 mario slides on his butt to gain speed depending on the steepness of the slope. I'll skip mi3 because it probably looks like every other mi3 ever made. mi4 the cape grab is slower, but I think I can fix that and still use the same route. Is the only thing I'm doing wrong that mario must be descending when he grabs the cape? Also, I have no idea if my grab and kick are optimal. As you will see in most of my demos I much prefer hopping to flying. castle. This method was ~200 frames slower. Also, flying down the pipe was slower than getting p speed later by about 8 frames. Laziness can be seen around frame 1250 if you turn button presses on. No re-records in that passage. Is it common practice to play the entire game 1 frame at a time? castle. I saw later that the good method for flying is <-- nothing <-- to make the up swoops, right? I know the boss fight is slow, but couldn't figure out how to fix it and I had to go to class. mi6 although I don't really know what the name of this level is. Except that I probably have that 1 frame delay, I think I got p speed as early as possible. d1 this level is lacking in entertainment for a long portion in the middle of it. Also, getting under the message block was hard. That wall jump that failed. Need it to beat the castle small because I want to see which levels can be beaten small with level continuity on, meaning any unbeatable level prevents access to levels following it. Also, SW5 should be solved small in SMW but the demo has yet to be made. That's all, folks.

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Posted: 8/24/2006 5:02 AM

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Fabian

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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

I don't think you lost any frames on the Dinosaur Land! screen, although you did lose one before that. That's very clever with the slope thing, made it 13 frames faster than me. Very cool. Looking forward to seeing more.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/24/2006 5:25 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Question the first: Why are you putting these in seperate smv files? You can resume recording by playing back the first level (with read-only mode turned off), saving state near the end, reloading that same state, and continuing recording. Question the second: Is your MI2 tactic faster? I think it may be, except that your shell grab looks a little slower. Question the third: Are you going to get the fire flower in MI3? Question the fourth: Are you planning on redoing MI2 with 6/5? Question the fifth: Wow, how did you find all this stuff? Amazing work man. I hope you're able to continue it. It's common practice to use frame advance the whole time, but you can hold it for some of the play, giving you something like 50% speed for easy parts (flying). And yes, fastest air catching is three frames: <-, nothing, <-. Maybe this should be moved to the SDW thread? :D

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 8/24/2006 5:36 AM

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jimsfriend

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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

Answer the first: I didn't know how. Answer the second: Which tactic? The shell grab is slower. Don't know how much. Answer the third: Only after I mess around in that desert level that requires it to make sure it requires it. I'm going to have to start over anyway. Answer the fourth: I'm going to have to start over anyway. Answer the fifth: Besides the butt slide, what stuff? Thanks! I don't think it should be moved to SDW thread because the people that would read the SDW topic probably read the SMW topic too. Maybe I'm too narrow minded, and maybe this topic title should be changed to SMW and SDW discussions.

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Posted: 8/24/2006 5:36 AM
(Edited: 8/24/2006 5:38 AM)

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Fabian

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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

I think JXQ answered your questions so all I can say is this is some awesome stuff and some great ideas. Very good job. Edit: Yeah I don't mind it here, it's mostly the same people anyway and it's good to keep stuff in one place I think.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/24/2006 5:37 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

jimsfriend wrote:

Answer the first: I didn't know how.

Then you should have learned first.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/24/2006 5:39 AM

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jimsfriend

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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

I didn't have internet access at the time, and if I have a readme file then I don't know where it is.

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Posted: 8/24/2006 5:41 AM

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Fabian

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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

One thing by the way: When starting to fly, during the liftoff phase, you can stop holding -> to have a constant speed of 49 during that time, then after a while you can press -> again for 3 frames to get to 51. Saves like a frame I think.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/25/2006 12:11 AM

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thegreginator

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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

These videos look sweet jimsfriend. I'm glad that you prefer hopping to flying, I enjoy watching it more. Two questions: 1) Why dont you do hop glitch at the beginning of MI2? I know none of the movies do it, but I dont really understand why. Maybe it has something to with the shell jump? 2) When you remain flying through the first pipe in the castle, why dont you do it the second time as well? Oh and another question about SW5 small: is it possible to do multiple walljumps (in different spots) before hitting the ground? If so, this would be much faster than grabbing the shell and p-switch. Keep up the good work. EDIT: Yeah I agree the topic should stay here. Maybe it could help get SDW some more exposure.