General Informations

  • Emulator Used: FCE Ultra 0.98.16
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Movie ends as fast as possible
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Takes damage to save time
  • No cheats/passwords
Throughout the most part of the run, I abused the Blade/Item Boost (see below) maily with the ninja blade, and picked up all the shurikens and bombs on my way that were easy to reach. I tried my best to optimize the Blade/Item Boost movements in this run, but I think it could be even better.

Version differences

This game is know as Kage in Japan, and it is also know as Shadow of the Ninja in the USA and Blue Shadow in the Europe. There are (J), (U) and (E) releases, respectively.
Besides the text, the differences among the (U), (J) and (E) versions as far as I know are:
  • The (J) and (U) versions were designed to run in NTSC mode, and the (E) version was designed to run in PAL mode.
    • All the movements in the PAL version were adjusted for lower frame rate when the game was ported, in order to make the PAL version feel as fast as the two NTSC versions. However, they weren't adjusted perfectly due to discrete (integral in this case) mathematical problems. As a result, some movements were made faster (eg. the ROF of the blade weapon is once per 10 frames in the PAL version, while that in the NTSC versions is once per 13 frames), while some were made slower (eg. the walking speed is slightly slower in the PAL version.).
    • For the same reasons as that above, some movements result slightly differences in the PAL version. For example, you can jump so high in the PAL version that the enemy on the box at the end of Stage 1-2 can be jumped over from the ground, as well as two-man higher places can be reached without using the edge-sinking glitch, which are something impossible in the NTSC versions.
  • Level designs were modified during both the (U) and (E) porting. These modifications have changed the difficulty. Overall, the (J) version is the most difficult. Some of the modifications are described below:
    • Some enemies' strengths were adjusted eg. the seamen in Stage 1-1 were made weaker in the (U) and (E) versions, as their hit points were reduced from 2 to 1.
    • Some enemies in the (E) version were replaced eg. in the middle part of Stage 1-1, the monkey in the (J) and (U) versions was replaced by a droid in the (E) version.
    • It is said that the bomb weapons in the (E) version were made not so efficient as in the (J) and (U) versions against bosses. [source requested]
    • Some terrains were modified eg. in Stage 4-2, one conveyer in the first shaft was made longer and higher in the (E) version, while a rising platfrom before the last shaft was added in both the (U) and (E) versions.
  • The (J) version has the fastest intro. It is about 10 seconds shorter because the intro is only played once before you can press the start button to play the game in the (J) version rather than twice in the other two versions.
There could be more differences than I've listed here. I chose to make the movie with the (J) version in favour of the NTSC timing and shorter non-motion periods (mostly the intro, which I think plays twice would be boring).

Some tricks for the NTSC versions

The Odd Rule

In this game, when you are walking on the ground or jumping forward, your horizontal acceleration is 2. When you release the D-Pad, your horizontal acceleration will be -4 on the ground or -1 in the air, which is decelerating your velocity. If your horizontal velocity is going to be below 0, the game will set it to 0. If your horizontal velocity is going to be over 25, the game will set the accelation to 0 and keep it below 26. Therefore, if your current horizontal velocity is even, the game will keep it 24, while if your current horizontal velocity is odd, the game will finally keep it 25. Thus it's better to keep your horizontal velocity odd when you are moving. This is called "the Odd Rule" by me.

Blade/Item Boost

A trick called "Blade Boost" (also by me) features in this movie. When you are jumping forward with high velocity, pressing the B button on the controller to swing your blade or throw your item (a bomb etc.) will set you to a special status, where your horizontal velocity is boosted by about 90% and it can exceed 25, while your horizonal acceleration is limitted to -2 for a few frames, until the game realizes it isn't good and suddenly drops your horizontal velocity heavily and remove the acceleration limit. This procedure can be repeated as much as you want as long as you are in the air. The faster your weapon is, the shorter the cycle can be, and the higher average speed you can get. The ninja blade is the fastest main weapon in this game, whose ROF is one swing per 13 frames. The chain weapon has different ROFs in each grade, which are 1/26f in the firt grade, 1/21f in the secong grade and 1/16f in the last grade. The shurikens and bombs are both as fast as one throw per 4 frames. Since the higher the speed is when you perform this trick, the larger the 90% boost can be, it is best to follow "the Odd Rule" to get the maximum boost.
However, this isn't over yet. As soon as you land, your horizonal velocity will always drop down suddenly. Depending on your moving state before landing, the landing velocity varies.
1) Landing as boosted(still unable to accelerate yet) will halve your velocity.
2) Landing as not boosted with Left/Right Button pressed will temporarily set your velocity to 0 for one frame, then it restores your velocity to how great it should be with acceleration.
3) Landing as not boosted without Left/Right Button pressed will decrease your velocity by 1.
Obviously Case 2 should be avoided when moving forward because Case 3 is always better than it. However, Case 1 or Case 3 may result in an even velocity, and in Case 1 the landing velocity may be decelerated too much. Therefore, you may need to wait for several frames before doing Blade Boost or release Left/Right Button before landing to get an optimal landing velocity. Just like in other games that require constantly jumping for a TAS, you have to adjust the length and maximum height of your jumps according to the terrain everywhere, and it gets harder when you are TASing a game like Kage involved in such complicated accelerate mechanism.

Saving items while making boost

I've found a way to save bombs and shurikens when still get boosted. Just fire them 3 frames before landing. So you may see that I was "just hopping there" after I got bombs in Stage 2-2, but I did got boosted there. However I didn't jump much in narrow passages because of the dropping down of the horizontal velocity when landing.

Sinking into the wall

As far as I know, there are two ways to sink into the wall:
  • Climbing up platforms attaching to the bottom corner of the wall.
Jump to the joint as the "-L" part in "-L___"("-" illustrates the platform and "L___" illustrates the bottom corner of the wall), then climb up as soon as you grab onto the platform while holding down the direction on the D-Pad towards the wall.
  • Falling onto the wall.
The game assumes that you are landing on the ground if you jump and fall to some internal margin. There will be a one-frame window to jump up before you are getting ejected out.
The first way allows you to be ejected upwards very fast through the wall. The second way allows you to reach higher places than expected.

Utilizing invulnerability

When you take damage or pick up an item/power-up, you'll be invulnerable for a while. You can use this to go through enemy without getting hit.

Another way to go through enemy safely

Once an enemy is hit, it will be temporarily invulnerable and unable to hit you for several frames. You can go through it without getting hit, if you are fast enough.

More about items/power-ups

Once you pick up an item/power, bisides temporary invulnerability, it recovers you from some bad status as well eg. being stunned.

More tricks?

There are more tricks in Kage, but I don't want to write a longer discription than this. If you are interested, please feel free to PM me and you'll receive the answer once I've read the messages.

Major improvements

After reading the tricks expalined above, these items should be easy.
  • Faster way of moving.
  • Better strategy of using items for faster movements and boss fights esp. in Stage 2-3, or getting invulnerable to avoid damage (eg. that near the end of Stage 3-1).
  • New zipping tricks for shortcuts in many stages.
  • Reducing more lags by making certain input(hard to find them out during watching, though) and killing certain enemies.
  • Using an unknown glitch to kill some enemy quickly.
  • Reducing waiting time eg. the gap between the gas in Stage 2-1.
  • New shortcuts in Stage 3-1, Stage 4-2 and Stage 5-1.
  • Scrolling the screen better in Stage 4-2 and Stage 5-1.

Drawbacks

  • Having to kill the unskipable monkey in Stage 1-1 rather than the skipable droid there in the (E) version.
  • Having to wait for two moving pads in Stage 1-3. For the first one it was due to weaker jumping ability, and for the second one it was a side-effect of the the first one that I had to wait for the upper pad to show up.
  • Longer boss fights when only the blade weapon is available.
  • For some reasons, some enemy behaved differently and I had to spend more time in dealing with them eg. the mortar soldier one-shot-killed in Stage 4-1 would but shouldn't block the power-wave if I had attacked him on the right, which should have finished off the three of them in two shots.

Potential improvements

  • It can be found that I didn't perform the Blade Boost trick each time I climbed up a platform. I just forgot to do that. Had I done that, it might be either several frames faster now or not, depending on some frame-rule like that in SMB1 and SMB2j.
  • In Stage 4-1, it is possible to sink into the right side of the highest ladder and jump up from there, which can save some frames.

NesVideoAgent: Hi! I am a robot. I took a few screenshots of this movie and placed them here. Oh! I also replaced the ROM name.
  • You indicated Kage (J) [!].nes
  • I updated it to Kage (J).nes

Truncated: Hello klmz, and welcome here.
We already have a movie published for the european version of this game, [856] NES Shadow of the Ninja (Europe) by Xipo in 11:14.56, which regardless of being recorded in the wrong format is faster than this (33728 frames, yours is 35299). In any case you seem to have found a nice glitch, zipping upwards in the wall.
I recommend remaking this movie, on the (U) version, looking at the published movie and incorporating your trick. This one will be rejected.

Truncated: Submission unrejected, see post for details.

adelikat: After discussion we have a new verdict. This movie will be accepted and will obsolete the published blue shadow movie.
Also, any future submissions will be measured from the beginning of the actual gameplay in terms of speed. As a result a theoretical U version submission will not be "penalized" the extra 625 frame it takes at the title screen. All 3 versions (E, U, and J) are "fair game" provided that they are faster using this means of measurement. Also, the E version must run at 50fps.


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Phil> Imo, using E is not the good way. I didn't watched this run nor xipo's one. I can't tell which one is better. What I am sure is that movies using PAL version of any games did always confused decisions and such. I agree. Like I've said before, my opinion is that we should be enforcing a "U only" rule, so that we don't have to get into arguments like this one, or Bionic Hitler for that matter. >If it's proven that this run is really faster than xipo's run, even if there is some flaws, I suggest it to accept it. It shouldn't be too hard to beat the current movie if your movement speed is higher. I'd rather make sure this movie is up to standards, than make another hasty judgement I'll have to change. Votes are welcome. klmz>It was all my fault, right? So I was taught a good lesson: never to overestimate others too much, especially those who make decisions. Yeah, that was rude. Good thing you apologized.
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Any reasons why this game (Or maybe this run, even) is not 2players? Seeing how it is co-op... it would probably lag... and be slower... but the bosses might be faster with the bolt-thingies, if the players get one each. More importantly, 2 players = awesomeness.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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I don't get why we're favoring U over J, because isn't J usually the first version made? Shouldn't we be favoring the authors' original vision or whatever?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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BoMF: It is outside of this discussion, but I made a topic outlining my reasons for wanting to change the rules in this way. The suggestion wasn't that well received.
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Truncated wrote:
Yeah, that was rude.
I wasn't calmed down then. I'm sorry for that. I should have written the discription more detailed to avoid unnecessary confusion and arguement. However I am glad to see you have your new guideline of judging two movies in different TV modes. I think you can tell whether the (E) version of a game has been adjusted by comparing the BGM with that in the (U) or (J) version eg. the BGM in the (E) version of Castlevania is slower than that in the (U) version, so KONAMI was lazy then.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Voting meh. While the run was alright, I'd rather see it done in U. Shorter intro is a bad excuse. That, and the E had way less places for stops etc, making it more amusing. Too bad on the 60Hz-flaw though. But yeah. Meh.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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Cardboard wrote:
Any reasons why this game (Or maybe this run, even) is not 2players? Seeing how it is co-op... it would probably lag... and be slower... but the bosses might be faster with the bolt-thingies, if the players get one each. More importantly, 2 players = awesomeness.
I did try a 2-player run but got a VERY lagging movie that was MUCH slower. I don't think this game is even playable when two players are moving discontinueously while flickering.
Cardboard wrote:
While the run was alright, I'd rather see it done in U. Shorter intro is a bad excuse. That, and the E had way less places for stops etc, making it more amusing.
Do you mean that either the (E) or (U) is better choice than the (J) version? I don't think the (E) version is better than the (J) although the (E) has a naturally faster Stage 1-3 and boss fighting in Stage 1-1 & Stage 1-4, it has slightly slower moving speed, and in it every enemy has a slightly longer invulnerable time than that in the (J) version. Edit:
adelikat wrote:
Rules wrote:
as an example a shortcut/trick which only works in a different version.
It seems that I misunderstood what "shortcut" meant and made this run. Too bad. Maybe a speedrun for the (U) version next time.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
adelikat
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klmz wrote:
It seems that I misunderstood what "shortcut" meant and made this run. Too bad. Maybe a speedrun for the (U) version next time.
Yes, it is generally agreed that title screen, screen transitions, and anything that doesn't constitute as "actual gameplay" don't count. Perhaps the rules could be clarified. EDIT: Is the ONLY difference between U and J the screen transition?
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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adelikat wrote:
klmz wrote:
It seems that I misunderstood what "shortcut" meant and made this run. Too bad. Maybe a speedrun for the (U) version next time.
Yes, it is generally agreed that title screen, screen transitions, and anything that doesn't constitute as "actual gameplay" don't count. Perhaps the rules could be clarified. EDIT: Is the ONLY difference between U and J the screen transition?
It's clear that this was a conspiracy to give Japanese speedrunners a 10 seconds advantage.
print reduce(lambda x,p:p/2*x/p+2*10**1000,range(6643,1,-2))
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I'm not entirely sure how to vote on this one. After watching both of them, it's clear that Klmz's run does have some improvements. Stage 2 and 4 bosses are clearly done faster as well as a few levels done much quicker due to some zipping. 1 level that I can definately tell is slower is 1-3. Xipo had no waiting for the platforms. I'm not sure how the timing should be done between these movies. But I did find this one to be more entertaining. The elevator scene was better and the zipping added a bit of entertainment as well. So I suppose if you take completion time out of the equation I would have to vote yes, this movie did entertain me better than Xipo's.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
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Cardboard wrote:
Any reasons why this game (Or maybe this run, even) is not 2players? Seeing how it is co-op... it would probably lag... and be slower... but the bosses might be faster with the bolt-thingies, if the players get one each. More importantly, 2 players = awesomeness.
2-players would like be slower in this game. There is would be MUCH more lag. Also, player 2 would follow behind player 1 most of the time and looks like would slow him up during the levels. And there is no guarantee of improving the bosses as it is likely that there is a limit to how much damage can be dealth at one time.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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What I meant was, Player 1 bolt-thingie pssssssssschhhhhhhhhhhhh, then player 2 does the same thing, so not strike at the same time.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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Cardboard wrote:
What I meant was, Player 1 bolt-thingie pssssssssschhhhhhhhhhhhh, then player 2 does the same thing, so not strike at the same time.
And it's the only benefit in boss fighting.... Oh you can abuse death without restarting the Stage X-Y then, with more pssssssssschhhhhhhhhhhhh in boss fighting. Edited edit: Corrected.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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>EDIT: Is the ONLY difference between U and J the screen transition? Hex-edit away 10 seconds and see if it syncs?
adelikat
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Upon closer examination, I retract my no vote. It was cast from ignorance of the differences of the different ROM versions. Watching the movie closely, I am satified with its technical quality and I am entertained by it. I change my vote to yes. Also, according to Cardboard, the intro difference between J and U is 625 frames.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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adelikat wrote:
Also, according to Cardboard, the intro difference between J and U is 625 frames.
On the first frame that the two ninjas appear, I did not compare the first allowed "Press Start Game Frame" for some reason. Also is there any difference between the ninjas? Other than the amazing fact that one is manly purple, and the other a crossbreed of pink/orange?
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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Truncated wrote:
>EDIT: Is the ONLY difference between U and J the screen transition? Hex-edit away 10 seconds and see if it syncs?
I don't know if this will work as you think. It seems that some "random lags" in this game are related to the history of your input and thus the offset of the input may cause desyncs when the game lags. I am not sure....
Cardboard wrote:
adelikat wrote:
Also, according to Cardboard, the intro difference between J and U is 625 frames.
On the first frame that the two ninjas appear, I did not compare the first allowed "Press Start Game Frame" for some reason. Also is there any difference between the ninjas? Other than the amazing fact that one is manly purple, and the other a crossbreed of pink/orange?
You can select one of them in the beginning of the game in 1-player gameplay. They seem to be the same in gameplay, though. Edit: Perhaps, improving this run by playing 2 ninjas is possible, with well-planned death so that you can avoid some lags and take benefits from more bolts in boss fighting and some death warps sometime? It could be very difficult or just impossible....
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Truncated wrote:
Phil> Imo, using E is not the good way. I didn't watched this run nor xipo's one. I can't tell which one is better. What I am sure is that movies using PAL version of any games did always confused decisions and such. I agree. Like I've said before, my opinion is that we should be enforcing a "U only" rule, so that we don't have to get into arguments like this one, or Bionic Hitler for that matter.
Bionic Commando and Hitler no Fukkatsu ARE NOT THE SAME GAMES. You will see when the runs will be finished.
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Sigh. YEAH LET'S NOT FORGET THE LAND MINES IN LEVEL 7 OR WHATEVERTHEHELLITIS THAT YOU SEE IF YOU MISS THE LAST SWING!!!!!!!1111111111111 THEY MAKE IT SO MUCH HARDER!!!!!! Sigh.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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Aside from a few changes in enemy numbers, truck route changes, and storyline censorship stuff, I don't see how Bionic Commando and Hitler no Fukkatsu are vastly different enough to be considered separate games. It's just separate ways of going about the run. My personal two cents in this. Why's this argument going on in the Kage vote thread anyway? o_O Back to the main subject though, the run's not all that bad, I guess, just needs some work.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [948] NES Shadow of the Ninja (Japan) "1 player" by klmz in 09:48.32
Joined: 10/31/2005
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does this game have 3 titles? -Shadow of the Ninja -Blue Shadow -Kage this must be the worst game ever if we talk about consistency (especially if you look at the tas history as well).
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adelikat wrote:
A different version of the game does not constitute a new game (except in some rare circumstances). Comparing to the published , it is 1571 frames slower. And on top of that you say the intro in your submission is 10 seconds faster in your version. This movie is slower, and that is evident when watching the movie. I vote no for failing to improve upon the published movie.
i agree. Frame count is lower in xipo's run and is faster than this. Voted no.
Jungon wrote:
if I was to have a Tool-Assisted real life ... I'd.. I could abuse death, just to see if it saves time ..
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I literally just facedesked. If you read the thread even a little bit, you would know that the previous run was played at 60 fps when it was a PAL game, so it was running faster then it should've been. If this run had been timed that way, it would be a lot quicker and a clear improvement to xipo's movie. Also, why'd you bump this?
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.