That clip was kinda awkward. You need to have Sonic's tall hitbox to do it because he'll just fall right through if you do it with his small hitbox. That lightning shield monitor basically forced me to land and then walk back onto Tails's hands.
It does look a bit sloppy though. Fixing that will mean that I'll have to redo the rest of the level so I'll do it when we get to there in the actual run.
Yeah I used to have trouble with the objects but I've learned about the braking mechanics since that run.
[<>] is also useful in stages like DEZ1, when Sonic starts entering the viewport from the left, there is one special frame when the game accepts D-pad input, and pressing [<>] gives Sonic slightly more horizontal speed in the beginning of the stage.
I did not know that. Does that also make Sonic gain control sooner?
[<>] is also useful in stages like DEZ1, when Sonic starts entering the viewport from the left, there is one special frame when the game accepts D-pad input, and pressing [<>] gives Sonic slightly more horizontal speed in the beginning of the stage.
I did not know that. Does that also make Sonic gain control sooner?
yes, you gain instantly +128 acceleration pressing "<>" at the first no-lag frame and Sonic/Tails/Knuckles gain control a considerable amount of frames faster, around 6-8 If I remember.
This works in KTE-CNZ1/LRZ1, ST-KTE HPZ and ST-DEZ1
Great work on the continued progress Evil and Kaan, and congratulations on getting the run re synced up and getting on to the '& Knuckles' half of the run. You're doing amazing work.
There are probably a bunch of far more impressive techniques going on for those more familiar with all the mechanics like you guys are, but one of the things I really found neat from the recent set of videos was the way you utilized Tails swim to get get hight when that's not really an intended thing under water in LB2... What can I say, my tastes are simple!
But yeah great stuff all around. Exciting to see kaan as new face, become another good TAS-er of the game too.
Looking forward to MH2 and beyond. Don't think you'll hit it next wip, but not too far off the 1million points arbitrary milestone too!
Edit; oops, update bottom of last page if anyone missed itEvil_3D wrote:
Thanks paused. Tasing this game has definitely been an interesting experience. Maybe I'll tas some of the levels in this run in the future.
I'm 90% sure he won't reach 1M in the next WIP. He'd have to beat the level in less than 1:30 to get a 10k time bonus to reach it.
Also I have a route idea for most of SOZ2. I just need to work out a few things. I've discovered that you can get all the rings without any vertical screen wraps so I might make that a goal for my testrun if I find good enough strats for it.
There are probably a bunch of far more impressive techniques going on for those more familiar with all the mechanics like you guys are, but one of the things I really found neat from the recent set of videos was the way you utilized Tails swim to get get hight when that's not really an intended thing under water in LB2... What can I say, my tastes are simple!
The possibilitys are infinite, most of the time I improvise on the march and sometimes I found very crazy shortcuts or stair clips, as in LBZ2 and MHZ1 :3
kaan55 wrote:
Also I have a route idea for most of SOZ2. I just need to work out a few things. I've discovered that you can get all the rings without any vertical screen wraps so I might make that a goal for my testrun if I find good enough strats for it.
Wow we had very different routes in mind. I still found yours to be helpful though.
So it looks like no vertical screen wraps will be a viable goal. I won't have to derive too much off a normal route to accomplish it.
Here's Sandopolis 2 without any screen wraps. I'm really pleased with how this one turned out.
Link to video
Now all that remains is a testrun for both acts of Lava Reef which I'll definitely do in one gmv/video. Don't expect it to be ready anytime soon though. It's 2 big acts and I want to take a break before I even start.
How do you upload stuff to the userfiles? I can't seem to figure it out.
EDIT:http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/42185670270865281
I hope that uploaded the way I wanted it to.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
For me Sandopolis 2 is always the longest and the hardest part of the whole game, and as a TASer who spent a lot of time TASing this stage, I am really impressed by your testrun. It probably needs some optimization, but I know that Evil_3D is already so good at it. Keep up your work, guys!
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
For me Sandopolis 2 is always the longest and the hardest part of the whole game, and as a TASer who spent a lot of time TASing this stage, I am really impressed by your testrun. It probably needs some optimization, but I know that Evil_3D is already so good at it. Keep up your work, guys!
Thanks. I can see how this level would be a pain. This testrun wasn't difficult to make though (at least everything besides that insane trick about a minute in :p). For one I got very lucky with the cycle at the beginning of the act. It took me very little time to make it optimal. Overall I'm glad it went smoothly.
It probably could use some optimizations. I can't really tell where because there's little to no sloppiness in my run. Although I'm sure Evil will demolish my time when he finishes this act.
EDIT: @Scepheo, Just realized that I forgot to thank you for telling me how to use the userfiles. So Thanks.
Here's Sandopolis 2 without any screen wraps. I'm really pleased with this one turned out.
Link to video
What a pleasure to watch this! the only noticeable improvement I saw is: you can spindash trough the object at at 1:41 instead of doing the carry clip, the run in general is very solid and fun.
WST wrote:
For me Sandopolis 2 is always the longest and the hardest part of the whole game, and as a TASer who spent a lot of time TASing this stage
I know that feeling, after doing 15 times this ACT with Knuckles in the any% movie and later find 1 frame improvements this was my reaction.
Link to video
memes serve to express
What a pleasure to watch this! the only noticeable improvement I saw is: you can spindash trough the object at at 1:41 instead of doing the carry clip, the run in general is very solid and fun.
Thanks friend :)
Oh believe me I tried to do that but I just couldn't do it. I found that those wide objects are very strict about letting you spindash through them from the left side (I was barely able to clip through the one at 2:15) and that particular one does not give you good layout to work with. I think what you're suggesting is a Knuckles exclusive trick. Unless you can prove me wrong.
Your reaction (love that meme btw) pretty much sums up how I would feel about doing heavy optimization run of this act myself. You might find the Sonic and Tails ring attack to be much more enjoyable to tas though.
What do you use to trace your routes on the maps? Because I'm not sure if I can do either act of Lava Reef by memory.
I usually draw a line with paint as I study the map taking into account possible glitches, but in the end the route ends up being a bit different while doing the TAS.
I kinda do the same. Study the map and go ingame to test out potentially useful strats. Sometimes I find one while making the tas. Sometimes the route changes slightly based on what happens ingame.
I just want a general reference to my planned route so that I don't forget what to do while making the tas.
Also I kinda goofed with the userfiles upload. There was no way to download the savestate for the gmv. I added a link just now on that page.
Thanks for those routes. They'll definitely help me with mine.
I found this unique strat. It probably won't be optimal but I'll try it out in my testrun anyways. It'll be a good way to confuse our viewers though.
Link to video
So I'm pretty much done with the routing in act 1. Just to make it easier on myself I won't route act 2 at all until I'm finished with act 1.
I almost forgot to ask. Should level wraps be allowed in this? I'm asking because it could have use in act 2.
Also I did some testing in Sandopolis 1. You can use the offscreen slope glitch exploit to the the 3 rings in the wall. It's faster than the other method but I don't think it'll be as entertaining.
As a guy who generally prefers low glitch runs, I'd say what's wrong with level wraps in this case?
Max rings requires a whole bunch of glitches to achieve its goal. If there is a run to not allow certain glitches, it should be in a specific glitchless run, not in a run where glitches are required to attain the goal in the first place. You've already open pandoras box here, might as well go hog wild.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
I suppose you will be performing level-wrap in the very beginning of the stage, to reach some point faster while being inside the terrain after act 1 boss? In this case, it can actually be useless, because if you zip right directly, the camera will start moving right earlier. So, it’s useless unless you want to level-wrap to some far position. But I have no idea why need to do it, because you’ll still have to go back to collect rings anyway.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
@paused, You have a good point. Some of the stuff done in the run is arguably more broken.
@WST, The only thing I really intend to use the level wrap for is to start from the very end of the level. The route idea for that is to backtrack through Knuckles' area and then reach the end from Sonic's area.
Right now I barely know anything about what Sonic and Tails can do in act 2 so I don't even know if I'll use it. The extent of what I know is how they can traverse through Knuckles' area.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
Oh, now I finally got it, that makes sense, thanks.
I would not ban level-wrap in this case, because it would not affect the entertainment, and even look fun.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
For me ring-attack+glitches, it complements each other very well because it tries to grab every single ring in each stage in any way possible and the glitches allow the goal to be met without problems, adding entertainment and "WTF" "OMG" "unexpected" moments in the course of the level. If we talk about a ring attack "glitchless" I would not feel comfortable seeing it, that we have already found ways to get 100% of the rings in all zones thanks to the glitches, personally the goal would not be completed knowing that you can grab all rings with the "glitched" way.
And Any%+glitchless is a better conbination for me, seeing that level warps can be made at almost all levels actually literally see Sonic doing 3 to 15 seconds of input to make the level warp and then you see the camera moving horizontally another 10 seconds then you see Sonic appear instantly in the boss zone. The bad thing about this conbination is that it requires more development time and effort from the TASer than a normal Any%, since you have to optimize each route in detail so as not to suffer an "obsoletion" in the future, but yeah, is not impossible we just need time, effort and people committed to doing it.
Yeah I figured you would all approve. I just wanted to be sure there weren't any objections to me doing it.
I wouldn't want to see a glitchless ring attack either Evil. I feel the glitches are what makes ring attacks whole. Without them the run would lose most of its entertainment value and possibly drag on longer than it should.
Also does this stair climb look okay? I tried to change it to where I climb more of it 3 steps at a time but I lost 20 frames and didn't get Tails to land.
Link to video
What a pleasure to watch this! the only noticeable improvement I saw is: you can spindash trough the object at at 1:41 instead of doing the carry clip, the run in general is very solid and fun.
