Topic by Evil_3D

Posted: 11/26/2017 6:47 PM

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Evil_3D

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Okay I understand.

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Posted: 11/26/2017 8:11 PM
(Edited: 11/27/2017 1:17 AM)

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kaan55

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Yeah. I'm just glad it's a very unnoticeable time loss and that most of the movie sync'd. This could've been much worse. There was a chance I couldn't have gotten any of those levels to sync at all. I also lost 8 real time frames to 4 2 frame pauses in LBZ but that was just to prevent flamethrowers from hitting Sonic or Tails. It would've been the most optimal way to deal with those anyways so I'm sure you won't mind losing time to that. Oh yeah. Are you going to encode the new AIZ2 run as a WIP?

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:34 PM

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Evil_3D

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Sincerely I'm more happy with the new AIZ2, to be honest you old AIZ2 it looked "boring" sometimes for alot of backtracks and look down times. But now looks much very fluid and entertaining :). The slope glitch in Tails with the platform is very unexpected I never tested that :P Maybe in the week I will upload the wip, and how much frames we lost with the sync proccess?

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Posted: 11/26/2017 8:43 PM
(Edited: 11/27/2017 1:26 AM)

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kaan55

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I agree it did look boring and it would've been a bad introduction to the run too. I discovered slope glitch with those platforms on my own. I was seeing what I could do with offscreen slope glitch and accidentally discovered that you can bring it onscreen with those platforms. There is one detail you should know about this. Tails has to be onscreen when the platform completely deloads or else he will automatically despawn. We lost 3 in AIZ, 4 in HCZ, 8 in LBZ to those pauses, and more in MHZ2 due to lag. I'll give you the exact number when I'm done. EDIT: We lost 4 more frames in MHZ2 to lag so that makes 19 now. The movie now syncs up to the end of FBZ1.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:48 PM

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WST

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…As always…

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Posted: 11/26/2017 9:50 PM

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kaan55

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lol that's so true. Do you just have that meme on you? Also I didn't think I'd be able to do this in a day. I just finished syncing the ENTIRE FREAKING RUN! I gained 1 frame in MHZ2 from hitting the capsule a frame early and another because FBZ loaded a frame early for some reason. I then sacrificed those 2 frames to make FBZ2 sync. Here's the gmv if you want to look at it yourself. I am gonna take a break from this like Evil suggested before I start tasing SOZ1.

Posted: 11/26/2017 10:28 PM

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Evil_3D

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kaan55 wrote:

lI gained 1 frame in MHZ2 from hitting the capsule a frame early

Arg.. *Capsules* my eternal nemesys in sonic games, they are my weakness And good job resyncing the movie again, I never spect you do it this in one day!

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Posted: 11/26/2017 11:37 PM

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kaan55

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Dude. The capsules are the true final boss of this game. Seriously though that was one of the easiest capsules in the game. I guess I should pay attention to how you open them from now on. Thanks btw. It took me good deal of luck and skill (mostly luck) to resync the run. I just found out that those 2 frames I sacrificed in FBZ2 counted as ingame frames. I'm currently too exhausted to try fixing it. If you want I can save those 2 frames and send you the gmv to fix it yourself. It desyncs at around 45-57 seconds.

Posted: 11/27/2017 9:14 AM

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Evil_3D

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I prefer don't touch FBZ2 because the magnets have a very annoying frame rule, in some places I gain and lost time. But if you want you can try to fix it. You can jump during the signpost time before it stays still, spend 2 frames there with a jump, but try to maintain the same Y subpixels.

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Posted: 11/27/2017 5:22 PM

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kaan55

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Oh no the positioning is easy. There's a point where Sonic and Tails stayed still on the right side of the screen which is where I originally added the 2 frames. If I remove those 2 frames Tails just ends up desyncing 40ish seconds in because something is offset. You do have a good point about the magnet cycles though. It may not be possible to gain those 2 frames anyways. I think I'll just leave it as it is. Moving onto SOZ1. Do you have your own route planned for that level. It could give me some ideas on how I can improve it. Also do which shield (besides bubble) do you want to start Act 2 with?

Posted: 11/27/2017 6:00 PM

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Evil_3D

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Sandopolis is a very hard level to optimise, specially in this type of goal, the tip I can give is maintain and re-analize you original route but more fluid, calculates the time of the objects between falling and rising to maintain Sonic and Tails in constant movement and try to lost the less time possible with this objects because in your testrun you lost so much time with these damn objects. Sandopolis It can be a big challenge. Just one tip with Tails: when tails jump and start flying his max impulse is starting from 900+ of jump force, personally I use 1274 of jump force.

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Posted: 11/28/2017 6:44 AM

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kaan55

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Goddammit I have to resync the run again. Link to video Remember that 1 ring in Knuckles' 2nd loop that was bothering me. Yeah Tails can get it with slope glitch if he's angled straight down. I didn't think about testing this until now. At least resyncing the run isn't as hard as I originally thought it was. But still I just can't seem to catch a break XD

Posted: 11/28/2017 6:50 AM

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WST

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Yeah, in this game you can never say for sure what is possible and what is not. That’s why it doesn’t make much sense to call some rings “impossible to collect”, much more correct form is “rings, for which there is no known way to collect them”.

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 11/28/2017 8:05 AM

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kaan55

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Yeah I've done a lot of testing. It's physically impossible to collect any of the remaining 50 rings because of the death boundary. Even knowing this I'm still not 100% sure if they are truly impossible to collect. However for the sake of keeping AIZ2 interesting and finishing the full run I'm gonna leave those remaining 50 rings as "no known way to collect them". At this point I'd be wasting my time trying figuring out how to get those rings anyways.

Posted: 11/28/2017 10:23 AM

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WST

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The ways to collect some “uncollectable” rings may be extremely tricky, like some kind of memory corruption allowing to change the death boundary using an yet undiscovered ACE glitch :)

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 11/28/2017 11:29 AM

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Evil_3D

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I remember in Sonic 3 alone with debug mode, sonic when collect 50 rings and enter in the bonus stage in the early sigpost next to Knuckles start this eliminated the death boundary and water, I remember doing this on my console when I was a kid xD But Idk if this can work in S3&K I think sega fixed this glitch in the lock-on version.

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Posted: 11/28/2017 3:58 PM

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WST

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Friends, could you please run this script on your run?

Language: lua
memory.registerexec(0x1A8FC, 2, function(addr, range) print("Epic fail @ frame " .. tostring(gens.framecount())) end)

Because it gives me some questions about your Marble Garden 2 :)

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 11/28/2017 5:42 PM

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Evil_3D

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I don't know how to run this script, but what is you question(s)?

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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:46 PM

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WST

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Just save it as file.lua, then in your Gens click “Tools → Lua scripting → New Lua script window”, then “browse” and select file.lua. It clearly shows that you’ve lost some rings in MGZ2. They got unloaded by running too far with the lightning shield.

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 11/28/2017 5:55 PM

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Evil_3D

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Uhm.. that's strange because in my current .gmv the final ring counter shows 593 and this are the max number of rings in MGZ2, maybe you have another gmv or the script causes desyncs? Here is the last .GMV, you can check

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Posted: 11/28/2017 6:08 PM

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WST

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Weird. Maybe the mentioned address gets executed not only when a ring gets unloaded? marzojr, could you please clarify?

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Posted: 11/28/2017 8:37 PM

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kaan55

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Yeah that doesn't work in S3&K. In Sonic 3 alone there's a trigger that lowers the water and death boundary but it was removed in S3&K. Instead the water and death boundary lowers when Knuckles reaches Act 2. I wonder if that trigger still exists in S3&K, but is stored somewhere else in the map. I'd totally be interested in getting more of those rings if I could find a way to break the death boundary like that. I'd also want to find a way to get Sonic out of Knuckles's area. Right now I actually don't want to do figure out how to collect more rings because what's likely gonna happen is Tails will collect them one by one with slope glitch which would just drag on the level. The only reason I went for that ring in Knuckles' 2nd loop is because it sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the remaining 50. To be honest I'm kinda glad I have to redo AIZ2 again. As amazing as that run was I did see some imperfection. Missing rings in MGZ2? Well this is the perfect time to get stuff like that sorted out. Although I'm pretty sure he didn't miss any in MGZ2 or any other level. I checked myself while I was resyncing the run.

Posted: 11/28/2017 8:47 PM

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Evil_3D

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Yeah, I tested it right now and Sonic and Tails can legitimaly enter in Knuckles path in S3 and collect all rings in AIZ2, but I don't know if is possible to trigger this action in S3&K AIZ2 or maybe can be exejecuted with a Arbitrary Code Execution and some help of sonic engine experts like marzojr. Edit: Forgot to mention, there are 3 rings inside the wall nearly the end, above the cave with the bubble shield and 2 ring monitors, these ring got removed in S3&K

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Posted: 11/29/2017 4:53 AM

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kaan55

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I just took a look at it myself. In Sonic 3 alone if you enter Knuckles' area in Act 1 you'll hit a trigger that lowers the level boundary and water. If you enter Knuckles' area in Act 2 nothing will happen. You'll basically get the same results as S3&K. In S3&K that same exact trigger still exists for Knuckles. I'm not sure if it exists for Sonic. If you attempt to enter Knuckles' area in Act 1 the death boundary gets set to the height of Sonic's Act 1 boss which instantly kills him. So unless we can make the game think Sonic is Knuckles I don't think we can get those remaining rings. But we can spend some time with this if you'd like. Arbitratry code execution could work but I'm afraid that's beyond my capabilities. I think Marzo is the one of the only people here who knows how to do something like that. 3 rings in the wall? You know I kinda wish they didn't remove those. It would've been interesting to get them. EDIT: Oh yeah did anybody else notice that there are signpost monitor objects in Knuckles' AIZ2 boss area? I wonder what monitors they are.

Posted: 11/29/2017 6:47 AM

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WST

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ACE is something that’s not even discovered for Sonic games yet. And in theory it can even be impossible, mainly because Sonic games were originally coded in a high-level language (C), unlike many NES games, making it way harder to make mistakes allowing executing something that normally shouldn’t get executed. I was mainly speculating, don’t take my message too seriously.

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