If we're doing discord links you might as well have the one I made for right before I left home.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/289607691796480001/602184006062309380/S3K_Sonic_alone_any.gmv
The fact that Amy has a faster level wrap is actually ridiculous. What time did you end up with? Also if you haven't done so already I'm pretty sure Amy can get enough height to get the frame perfect boss kill.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
kaan55 wrote:
If we're doing discord links you might as well have the one I made for right before I left home.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/289607691796480001/602184006062309380/S3K_Sonic_alone_any.gmv
The fact that Amy has a faster level wrap is actually ridiculous. What time did you end up with? Also if you haven't done so already I'm pretty sure Amy can get enough height to get the frame perfect boss kill.
My time for Amy in Sandopolis 1 is 1:05.31 :)
Working on the second act nowadays, and it’s hard. I may ask for your assistance, but I think I’ll try doing it myself.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Wow, 68 frames faster than Sonic's already fast SPZ1. That's insane.
You know I was actually considering helping you after I finished the Sonic run. Yeah it would help me considerably if you had a finished run of Act 2.
As for own Sando 2 I don't think it'll be too bad. The 2P tas makes for a good base and it doesn't look too hard. The only thing that's probably gonna suck though is trying to clip through that slide.
Kaan knows about these, but I thought I'd share them as others might not follow RTA/ILs as much.
Aside from Sando1. We now have a new skip in Death Egg 1 which might end up being RTA Viable:
Link to video
I also tested a theory of Kaan's for keeping the lightning shield, which seems to be frame perfect:
Link to video
And also have a Solo Sonic setup for Death Egg 2's level wrap, that for RTA purposes is faster than the S+T setup:
Link to video
Past few weeks have been pretty busy with this game :D
Alright so I felt like we should discuss something for improved Knuckles ring attack. I found a way we could allow Knuckles to collect rings by disabling his Super/Hyper transformation.
Only problem is this requires the use of a game genie code. Considering the only purpose of this code is to allow Knuckles to collect big rings without having to deal with his transformation do you think they would allow this?
To be clear, you mean using a cheat code that will just prevent Knux going Hyper when having the Super Emeralds and 50 rings right? Not having a way to go Hyper and then have a way of going back to his normal form?
Edit;
Apparently the rules do cover this...
Tools that manipulate ROM or RAM (e.g. Game Genie codes) are not allowed
They count as hacked versions of the game if they touch ROM areas. Either convert it to a real hack or don't use it at all.
So if I recall correctly, the answer is no; but Sonic3 Complete should have you covered right?
I mean not being able to transform at all.
I am aware that S3 complete covers this but I'd prefer to use the base game if possible.
However, making it into a real hack, as they put it might be a feasible option.
Yeah, my bad; I re-read your post as I made my edit, and you had made it clear what you meant; guess it's been a longer day for me than I'd thought!
I understand the desire to use the base game. The rules as written in my opinion do seem to make it clear, though of course I don't speak for the site at all. Possibly worth getting in contact with a judge if you want a solid answer.
Hope whatever the answer you get a solution though. Ever since the first S+T ring wip, always thought it was a shame that due to how the Super mechanics work Knux couldn't also grab the big rings. And just seeing improvements to that great run would be a blast to follow.
Best of luck!
Okay I'm back. I can't say when I'll start working on the Sonic run again but I definitely do plan on finishing it.
Now I decided to attempt possibly one of the most ludicrously difficult tricks I've ever tried. I decided to try to level wrap Sandopolis 2 with Sonic and Tails using the light switch glitch. All I can say is I hope I won't have to make the improve 2P any% tas anytime soon. I think I'll do some other stuff for now lol.
Here's a gmv of my best attempt. If anybody else would like to try this you're more than welcome to lol.
gmvsavestate
Oh yeah, on a more positive note slide clip is actually a thing you can do.
slide clip gmvslide clip savestate
Oh whoops. The discord message for the gmv was right on top of the message for the savestate so I copied the gmv link (not the dehacked one) by accident. It's now fixed.
As for the level wrap you're more than welcome to attempt it lol.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
kaan55 wrote:
Oh whoops. The discord message for the gmv was right on top of the message for the savestate so I copied the gmv link (not the dehacked one) by accident. It's now fixed.
As for the level wrap you're more than welcome to attempt it lol.
I think that second (first on your way) wall may be forcing your alignment to be unsuitable for the level-wrap, despite enough speed. It needs some calculation though. Made a quick attempt on breaking it, also failed…
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Oh lol I never replied to this message. Anyways I know that the level wrap is possible despite the first wall messing up the alignment. If I can get Sonic to clip through the first wall with a bit more speed it will work. The main problem I'm having is I keep getting stopped by the slopes.
Since the new 2 player tas won't be made anytime soon we don't have to worry about it for now.
Now onto a tas that is currently being made. I've just finished my testrun for SPZ2 with 0:52:34 as the current time.
Link to videoInsert weird name for gmv here
Here's SPZ2. It actually wasn't that bad, although I do feel like I got off a bit easy. For one the cycles weren't really a problem. I needed to go with one specific part of it for a 4-5 frame optimization in the beginning of the level which also happened to put the other moving platforms in good positions. After that the rest wasn't too hard.
I also did LRZ1 up to the drill cutscene. Got any advice on said cutscene? I could get hit by a fireball but I feel like there's a faster way to handle that.
sand, now also comes from above
Also I found another dumb S+T level wrap. This time in LRZ1. I didn't do any optimizations at all and it's already like 9 seconds faster lmao
Link to video
What are the walls in this game made of? >_<
kaan55 wrote:
I also did LRZ1 up to the drill cutscene. Got any advice on said cutscene? I could get hit by a fireball but I feel like there's a faster way to handle that.
Check the currently published Amy@S3K run, maybe that way is good enough?
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Well you see, the walls are merely a part of our imagination. Like Sonic you too can overcome these illusions if you find inner peace.
Anyways sorry about the late-ish update, but here's the run up to SSZ. Even went back to improve a few levels. I'll just list out the levels.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1985736661/S3K%20Sonic%20alone%20any%25.gmv
AIZ1- Saved 13 frames here. This wasn't actually my doing. Some time ago I asked Aglar if he wanted to help me with this run. Unfortunately he doesn't have the time or motivation for a run like this, but he did take the time to do a quick attempt with this level which I am greatful for. This level just felt slow and he pretty much cleaned it up. I couldn't improve it further so I just left the inputs as they are.
AIZ2- Saved 30 frames. Most of that came from not using the yellow spring after hitting the switch. Managed to save a few more frames by doing a loop zip.
FBZ2- I decided to take a look at this level due to the nature of slope glitch. Saved 6 frames by doing the jump at the top layer of the level in a way where I immediately killed my upward momentum. I found that by complete accident :p
LRZ1- I ended up asking Marzo about the cutscene. Apparently all I has to do was hold left to stay onscreen. Surprisingly I did the level wrap about 5 frames sooner than the 2P run despite losing a decent chunk of time to the spindash elavator. The boss (more specifically the twin turrets) took some time to optimize. Sadly the time ended up being just shy of sub 50. Maybe later I'll find a way to save some frames. For now this is all I could muster.
LRZ2- I saved 1 frame with better camera manipulation. The rest is pretty much the same.
HPZ- Nothing to really say about this simple stage. Sonic loses out on about 10 seconds from not being able to do frames perfect oh noes alone.
SSZ- pretty simple stage. Only ended up being 4 frames slower (1 teleporter frame rule) than 2P. I had to do a micro pause to change Mecha Sonic's pattern.
And with that there's only one last, but certainly not least, zone left. Death Egg.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
Anyway, I love how Knuckles instantly self-accelerates at frame 1361 and turns back instantly at frame 1403, then stops at frame 1443 (and then laughs!).
Also, I love how you enter the gate from ICZ to LBZ from the Launch Base zone side. =D
I think you should really kindly ask Aglar to try his hand on SPZ2 level-wrap that you tried to set up…
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Anyway, I love how Knuckles instantly self-accelerates at frame 1361 and turns back instantly at frame 1403, then stops at frame 1443 (and then laughs!).
ah yes. It's the little things that bring me joy sometimes.
WST wrote:
Also, I love how you enter the gate from ICZ to LBZ from the Launch Base zone side. =D
It's also the fastest way to get there :)
WST wrote:
I think you should really kindly ask Aglar to try his hand on SPZ2 level-wrap that you tried to set up…
Considering how difficult that level wrap proved to be Aglar may not be the only person I ask :p
That can wait however because I just reached the end of my Sonic run. I will check for improvements later to make sure I saved every frame I can. I can't say when the submission will be out but it probably won't be long. I also wanna make sure I have at least some of the submission text done before submitting it.
Gotta solo fast
As for my comments on DEZ. I do have to thank the rta community for finding a couple of the large time saving tricks used in this zone long before I tased it. Besides 1 thing (which I'll get to) I'm pretty happy with how this zone turned out. I'm even more happy about how this entire run turned out :D
Act 1- The clip with the moving conveyor belt is one of them. I figured out how to do it without losing the lightning shield to the spikes. They also found a way to skip the gravity room by getting hit with a missile, but it didn't save nearly enough time to compensate for having to lose the lightning shield.
You may notice an imperfection with phase 1 redeye with hit 6. Instead of hitting redeye with the insta-shield I used it on the way down to go through the metal balls. I just couldn't do it the optimal way because the spikes ended up in the worst spots possible.
Act 2- The new level wrap is the other trick they found. I used a slightly altered version to save time. The other big thing is I managed to 2 cycle fingers.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
In all honesty, it’s the most crazy-looking fight against the final bosses of this game I’ve ever seen. It’s a pity that you couldn’t skip the engine room though. I did it once in one of my old Amy@S3K WIPs, the idea is to go offscreen far enough to fly through that room at a very high speed.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Yeah I've kinda been looking forward the final boss not gonna lie. It always makes for a good finale in these tases :)
WST wrote:
It’s a pity that you couldn’t skip the engine room though. I did it once in one of my old Amy@S3K WIPs, the idea is to go offscreen far enough to fly through that room at a very high speed.
I tried that too with the zip I used to enter the gravity room. The exit was just too out of reach. Can I see that WIP btw?
I did find a fast gravity skip for 2P though.
Link to videoEDIT:Glad I decided to check for improvements. Found a way to clip through the spindash elavator in LRZ1.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
kaan55 wrote:
I tried that too with the zip I used to enter the gravity room. The exit was just too out of reach. Can I see that WIP btw?
Of course, here it is. Remember, it’s a very old WIP, if you then decide to check the fresh one, it is here (though I didn’t make MHZ boss and FBZ2 level-wrap improvements yet).
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Oh wow that is an old WIP. I'd really have to go out of my way to do that gravity room skip. I did check the fresh one. Those are pretty nice improvements. I spotted a couple myself.
MHZ2- Amy can do the same stair clip Sonic did right before the boss.
SPZ1- We might be able to do the second clip a bit faster.
Here are a few improvements in my run
LRZ1- Thanks to that new spindash elevator clip I found I was able to save 95 frames. More than enough to not only get sub 50, but to also beat the current 2P time by 15 frames.
HPZ- Saved 1 frame here by activating the teleporter from a lower vertical position which made me land a frame sooner up top. Honestly the only reason I even noticed this is because I noticed a 3 frame time difference between this and the Tails run (I was comparing times out for fun) when a teleporter frame rule lasts for 4.
SSZ- I was able to remove the micro pause I needed previously to manipulate Mecha Sonic's pattern.
DEZ1- Saved 1 frame by braking better for the spindash after the engine room.
The last thing I really want to do in this run is fix phase 1 redeye which is yet again proving to be difficult. This gmv will let you see why.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1566057271/S3K%20Sonic%20alone%20any%25.gmvEDIT: Improved engine room by 23 frames. Still having trouble with redeye though.
gmvEDIT 2: Saved 25 frames in Act 2. This was done in a separate gmv so I won't be sharing this one right now.
Hey all. I confess I haven't been following the thread very closely lately but I was just curious how things were going on the Atlas version of the ST rings TAS? Also thought I'd weigh in on the following...
kaan55 wrote:
Well spz1 was all him. hcz1 I found out I could use the same clip I used to get into Sonic's area in lrz1. I even found the lowest spot you could do it off of which is 295 with a subpixel range of 48-87.
Here's 2 more discoveries. Apperently it's possible for Knuckles to get all the signpost monitors in icz through pretty much the same means as Sonic and Tails. Except you kill his own act 1 boss first.
Are you saying you managed to glitch into Sonic's starting area in LRZ1 as Knuckles? That's huge, if so! I tried for ages to do this and couldn't, so, congratulations if you did and if so then could you please share more about this?
Regarding the signpost monitors: interesting, I actually just rewatched the ST rings TAS the other day and I remember wondering at the time whether this very thing might be possible with Knuckles. It's such a cool glitch too, and amazing to watch as a viewer.
kaan55 wrote:
Alright so I felt like we should discuss something for improved Knuckles ring attack. I found a way we could allow Knuckles to collect rings by disabling his Super/Hyper transformation.
Only problem is this requires the use of a game genie code. Considering the only purpose of this code is to allow Knuckles to collect big rings without having to deal with his transformation do you think they would allow this?
That would be pretty epic if the improved version included giant rings. All things considered I think this game genie code would be a reasonable exception to TASVideos rules although I wouldn't necessarily expect them to accept it, and fair enough. S3 Complete being such a well known and well done hack helps the case for using that instead of the official version, but - and this may be a minor issue - it's still not the official version; more importantly, doesn't it also include numerous bug fixes that can't be disabled? From the perspectives of both the author and the audience of such a TAS, that could either be a good thing or a bad thing.
One other option could be to just allow super/hyper transformations.
In any case, one thing to note regarding a Knuckles rings TAS improvement is the (I think) 3 additional rings that may or may not be available to Knuckles, newly discovered embedded in the wall somewhere in FBZ by kaan55 and Evil_3D.
Hey all. I confess I haven't been following the thread very closely lately but I was just curious how things were going on the Atlas version of the ST rings TAS?
@TheYogWog, Back from the dead I see. Welcome back!
To be honest I'm not sure where Selicre is with the atlas encode after he made that rough draft encode. I'll have to ask him later.
TheYogWog wrote:
Are you saying you managed to glitch into Sonic's starting area in LRZ1 as Knuckles? That's huge, if so! I tried for ages to do this and couldn't, so, congratulations if you did and if so then could you please share more about this?
Wait did you actually forget about that? I figured out how to get Knuckles into Sonic's LRZ1 starting area sometime last year. You even replied to it. Here's the testrun Evil made because of that find.
Link to videoTheYogWog wrote:
Regarding the signpost monitors: interesting, I actually just rewatched the ST rings TAS the other day and I remember wondering at the time whether this very thing might be possible with Knuckles. It's such a cool glitch too, and amazing to watch as a viewer.
Yeah I like that glitch too. I still find it funny that we collect all 5 signpost ring monitors by getting a 2nd signpost.
I'm considering making a testrun for Knuckles in ICZ. This glitch simplified ICZ for Sonic and Tails as it allowed them to start Act 2 from Knuckles' area. With Knuckles however it had the opposite effect as there's now a few things that need to be worked out with himv(mainly the 3 rings before Knuckles' Act 1 boss).
TheYogWog wrote:
That would be pretty epic if the improved version included giant rings. All things considered I think this game genie code would be a reasonable exception to TASVideos rules although I wouldn't necessarily expect them to accept it, and fair enough. S3 Complete being such a well known and well done hack helps the case for using that instead of the official version, but - and this may be a minor issue - it's still not the official version; more importantly, doesn't it also include numerous bug fixes that can't be disabled? From the perspectives of both the author and the audience of such a TAS, that could either be a good thing or a bad thing.
One other option could be to just allow super/hyper transformations.
I mean that pretty much describes my thoughts on the matter. Evil and I already asked about that and they didn't accept it. If you really wanted to you could try your luck in convincing them although I doubt they'd change their minds which is understandable.
Also let's just keep the transformations out for now.
Here's another option. Evil suggested using the game genie code anyways and not submit the run to tasvideos (we'd likely still post updates here though).
TheYogWog wrote:
In any case, one thing to note regarding a Knuckles rings TAS improvement is the (I think) 3 additional rings that may or may not be available to Knuckles, newly discovered embedded in the wall somewhere in FBZ by kaan55 and Evil_3D.
3? I remember there being just the 1 that's similar to the one in MGZ2.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
kaan55 wrote:
Here's another option. Evil suggested using the game genie code anyways and not submit the run to tasvideos (we'd likely still post updates here though).
It’s a nice idea. I recall at least one brilliant run made this way. It really breaks the submission rules, but, at the same time, it’s clearly a tool-assisted speedrun (and a good one).
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
