Topic by Cpadolf

Posted: 5/9/2009 7:23 PM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

Why did you need to go kill the hobag in Egypt? Pretty sweet run anyway, but there where a lot of lag from time to time, is this because the emulator or is it due to the character switching? If it is the latter then it would probably be faster not to use it at places where it causes a lot of lag (spots that comes to mind are when you leave the shop and when dracula does the flame attack). Oh, and what equipement do you buy besides the holy claymore?

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 5/9/2009 7:29 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

I dont use anything beside holy claymore, theres basicly nothing usefull on the road I get an armor on the shop, but not realy of any uses, its basicly to spend money (and get shop points, you need to spend 250000 to get claymore available) The shop doesnt realy offer anything interresting beside the shuriken (witch is usefull on the way to dracula, but poor damage on him, only 16 and cost lots of mp) Also, considering im very low (im only lvl10 vs dracula), theres nothing beside holy claymore who will deal sufficiant dmg (see charlotte does only 1dmg to drac, coz her weapon is not holy) The lag is located in save rooms (the shop been one), from using darts on sandy boss or if he use green balls attack, the huge wurm in sandy, and dracula super-fire-ball-from-wings stuff, partner switch/call doesnt lag, the only way i can see to lag the game by yourself is using darts, but its not realy an option Astarte (sandy grave boss) is mandatory, its him who unlock the quest for glitching money

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Posted: 5/9/2009 7:58 PM

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Serris

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 65

Sweet. I'm somewhat surprised it's "only" ~4 minutes faster than my console run, though. As for possible improvements, if you suspend in the first Sandy Grave room, you can grab the High Tonic in the room above for Astarte, and maybe take the upper route while you're there. It seems to me you actually lose quite a bit of time from being underleveled by skipping Behemoth and Keremet and skipping the detour for Speed Up, money and mastered Dart. After all, the Holy Claymore route mainly exists because it's a much more real-time-play-friendly alternative, but with a TAS, definitely do try going straight for the Final Sword and Drac. Partner jumping Bat Moon while backdash canceling your slow, crap-damage-dealing weapon with zero potions suddenly sounds a lot more fun. :P Of course, you could try doing another Holy Claymore run following the real-time route or a slight modification of it. Would be interesting to see what's faster.

Posted: 5/9/2009 8:03 PM
(Edited: 5/9/2009 8:11 PM)

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Actually serris i raped your console run in term of game timer The last strike to dracula is exactly at 9:00 I start to fight him its around 5:50 In a TAS alltought, all is counted toward the end time, including SG, witch is not on your console run Im not sure what 16min stand for, if its for post dracula + skip end, then my run is like 7min faster than yours, witch is over 40% speedup I dont skip the end dialogue in this video, witch result in 12:10 but its pretty much useless info actually, it was just to show the ending actually In the incoming improvements, i buy a tonic, simply, it cost only 300 I tested the upward route in sandy, its like x3 time than bottom one, theres 2SG to do and theres unavoidable fights too Ah and i tested master dart trough your original route, doesnt add much damage, not enought to worth the (huge) detour of speed up ect...

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Posted: 5/9/2009 8:04 PM

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zefiris

Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[

How does one get 1000 blades attack? Or what was its name? Because single such attack on final guard leaves him with exactly one hp - if you can manipulate sword drop after that - it might be worth it.

Posted: 5/9/2009 8:06 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

You would do like less than 30 damage to dracula (Whatever is NOT holy will be /2 damage against him, see charlotte...) This was an option mentioned previously in the thread and in serris posts over personaworld, but its not a viable option i think Alltough, its very possible to get there early and drop this sword (even without 1000 blades) Edit: allright ill give a look but i would be so low level(4?) im quite sure it would end been a gigantic battle with dracula (like 500hits...) Also that idiot have a attack pattern i cant (fully) dodge without double jump witch mean he hit me, im ok when i have mp left so its charlotte who take the hit, but it would be lethal to a lvl4 with no armor, not sure how long i could fight him that way

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Posted: 5/9/2009 8:24 PM

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zefiris

Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[

you can doublejump using stylus when both characters are on screen. You make secondary character jump with stylus, then change character and press jump while changing when last circle apperas if i remember correctly. I did it in realtime often, try to find exact frame to do it. Or having secondary character in background is not an option?

Posted: 5/9/2009 8:28 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

I use this in the run to get past a high plateform yeah Its kinda costing frames, but yeah, that eventually possible, in this run he use this attack only once so i just get damaged its faster Klmz did explained me how work the damage, but i dont fully remember... its possible whatever is not holy will do 1 with my crap level, else charlotte would do 8... or 6 or 2 but not 1

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Posted: 5/9/2009 8:57 PM

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zefiris

Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[

Does not final guard give nice amount of exp? I don't remember... He dies fast by 1000 blades so you can grind on him a bit if mp allows that.

Posted: 5/9/2009 8:59 PM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

arukAdo, are you REALLY SURE that it isn't faster just to warp to Dracula?

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 5/9/2009 9:01 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Only 500 exp for final guard, pretty much nothing (lvl4 max i believe) pirate: its faster, but i do 1 damage... i didnt realy tested the sword but well, its supposly slower afak

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Posted: 5/9/2009 9:02 PM

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zefiris

Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[

oh. sad... I guess fighting some boss that is not THAT out of the way is not an option too... Death is around there, but the time it will take won't make it worth it...

Posted: 5/9/2009 9:13 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

The point of Astarte is simple: 1. he give the good quest (easy quest) to glitch up 2. he is dartable (you see a "target" when you dart him), witch is pretty much the only way to kill anything at lvl1/2/3/4 3. he give 3000exp Death give 4000 or 5000 exp, and not dartable i think If the final sword grant me 30 damage against drac, it will work, i need to test but its likely to be much less than 30

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Posted: 5/9/2009 9:15 PM

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Serris

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 65

Thanks, your post explained a lot. Yeah, my time comes from looking at the save after skipping ending and credits. 1000 Blades is located in Sandy Grave - you wouldn't go there in a Final Sword run. With your crazy canceling techniques, you wouldn't even need Whip Skill 1, anyway, just Final Sword and something to push back the wings (Raging Fire/Summon Skeleton).

Posted: 5/9/2009 9:19 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Apparently i can kill the wings if i fast swing sword (cancel with partner), i got raging fire in that video, but i dont think its mandatory, i didnt even optimized that part since it seem to be not affecting dracula HPs Also 1000 blades probably need lots of MP, im like 80 mp lvl1 Did you ever realy tryed final sword? dont remember damage dealt maybe?

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Posted: 5/9/2009 9:39 PM

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Serris

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 65

I only manipulated a Final Sword drop on the first kill once, and I didn't have Stone of Flight, so beating Drac wasn't a question of tenacity, but pretty much impossible. However, I do seem to remember saying somewhere that FS did roughly half of HC's damage. Of course, the FS run didn't kill anything but the Final Guard beforehand, while the HC run had EXP gains from three bosses. It's been far too long, but I do think it's definitely worth a run. Also, if you find a way to SG into the Speed Up room, it could be of help against Drac (like crouchsliding beneath True Drac's feet).

Posted: 5/9/2009 9:43 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Oki, shouldnt be too much complex to test for me, since i get most my exp from astarte, i can test from the big warp and go directly dracula More on this later :p

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Posted: 5/9/2009 9:54 PM

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Apo123

Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 212
Location: Virginia

The test run looked very nice, although I'm sure the switching noises will be annoying. Also, where is the Whip Memory/Richter on the map (I assume he has to be loaded somewhere on the map, even if the room itself isn't shown)? Would it be feasible to warp there, kill him, and get the Vampire Killer unlocked?

adelikat wrote:

It started off fairly tame, but as more balls entered the picture it sure got a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 5/9/2009 9:57 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

I dont think its reachable trought the map warping Some people explored the "outside" and i never heard of such thing as loading external parts like richter battle or just the extra areas in wifi mode So i would say apparently its not feasible

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Posted: 5/10/2009 2:43 AM

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errror1

Active player (292)

Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 458
Location: Houston

nice run but I would have liked to see a tool assisted save drawing

Posted: 5/10/2009 7:39 AM

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Catastrophe

Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA

arukAdo wrote:

Oki here whe go, first test run Went pretty cool like i did planned Theres few optimizations to do, but overall its well done i think Edit: For those unhappy about the sound fx not here (the soundtrack is from por...), i just have to say, you wont have to wait long, and you gonna hate it Basicly, every 15 frames you will hear "charlotto!!!" or "jonathan!!!" witch is VERY boring (for me it became very boring at least) Its even worse vs dracula (every 6 frames!)

I should be talking about the game and the route, but your encode is awesome! I really like the way you treated the top screen as a minimap. I also like the way you showed the horizontal SG. (At 1:50 in the youtube video.) This might be a bad suggestion, but I think you should fade the dubbing out at some point and fade the original audio back in. Maybe only for 15 seconds or so. Just long enough to make the viewer say to him or herself "Oh that's why it was dubbed." :)

Posted: 5/10/2009 9:15 AM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Thanks Well, it wasnt official or whatever, just for fun, i think minimap was enought of an effort regard to the fact its just junk material (not a real tas accomplishement...) Alltought what realy is important to me, is i finaly used vegas and well, it turned out to be very apropried to make those kind of stuff (minimap or anything else) People wont have to wait very long to get the official encode i think, im hoping to submit a run next week error1: if i could i would ! :p Drawing T.A.S. as my logo would need to spend frames

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Posted: 5/10/2009 11:14 AM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1432)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

arukAdo wrote:

error1: if i could i would ! :p Drawing T.A.S. as my logo would need to spend frames

IMO waisting a little time to draw something cool really fast could be worth it.

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 5/10/2009 11:32 AM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Im not sure if its a good idea... this game will be highly competited i believe, i think aiming for speed is a good goal Edit: tryed several times and i cant get the sword for the love of god Anybody know how i can cheat it up or how the rng work? It sound like its going to be a big hassle if that come to be the fastest way Edit2: somebody help and give cheat code for luck or sword, else its holy claymore and that it, i lost 2 hours trying to figure out and bleh, i sux at it

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Posted: 5/10/2009 2:55 PM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2106)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

You seem to have forgotten something. Go figure :) As to Final Sword: Damage to Dracula with Final Sword = (ATK-22)*53/64. You won't do more than 19 dmg to him at such a low level. You can deal slightly more to Death, though. BTW, any dark weapon will only do 1 dmg unless you level up a lot.

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do