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[NesVideoAgent]

This is an automatically posted message for discussing submission: #917: nitsuja's Genesis Ecco the Dolphin in 24:14

See details at: http://tasvideos.org/917S.html

Submission status: published
Last edited by: nitsuja

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The submission message follows:

• goal: take no damage
• goal: aim for fastest time
• abuses programming errors in the game

For some (insane) reason I thought this would be too easy, so I added the restriction that I would take no damage. I didn't realize it until much later into the run, but it is not supposed to be possible to avoid damage in this game. Well, I did it anyway, and that includes avoiding damage from lack of oxygen, damage that doesn't visibly change your health or doesn't make a sound, damage from enemies that still attack you while you can't move from dialog/waiting, and damage from getting sort-of close to bosses or looking at them the wrong way. I think it ended up making it more interesting, since it's borderline impossible to never get hit, and taking damage in this game wouldn't require additional planning or allow anything very amazing.

So, besides that, this is also about 3 minutes and 20 seconds faster than FODA's run of the game. FODA knew his run wasn't perfect, and I did gain considerable time from moving more precisely, but he definitely didn't have that much imperfection in the movement. A lot of the time saved comes from abusing bugs/oversights - I won't explain too much more about that since that should be pretty obvious in the first few minutes. FODA's run was, of course, incredibly helpful for making this.

There are a lot of things that look like mistakes but aren't, and some things that are actually mistakes. (I know the movement could still be faster, and it's not consistently done (gets faster partway through), but it'll take someone with way more patience or much better tools to get the movement really perfect.) As incredibly difficult as this game is to play, I think it's even harder to make it perfect in a TAS. Just getting quickly from point A to point B without slamming into all sorts of walls is a challenge, not to mention doing it while dodging enemies and pushing starfish or blocks. And the boss fights were even more difficult to optimize - I'm certain they can be done faster, but it was a nightmare just to find something reasonably fast that didn't involve getting hit.

The most sadistic thing about this game is that, after putting you through a very long autoscroller called "Welcome to the Machine" (which is full of death traps and unpredictably-moving aliens that kill you instantly on contact), you go to a final battle where any mistake is almost certain to kill you, and dying in that final battle sends you all the way back to the start of The Machine!

Enjoy - and I assume there will be questions, so ask away...

Emulator: Gens movie test 9f
(Actually I made this using a custom Gens with 2 different types of autofire for the C button and a way to hide the rock graphics layer so I could see to avoid damage on the Asterite battle.)

[Jboy AAA]

Oh dear lord no...I'm going to have to sit through this horrible game AGAIN...

I'm immensely curious as to how you intend to avoid cutscene/oxygen damage, though.

[nitsuja]

Well by "cutscene damage" I really mean the aggressive enemies that chase you forever in levels with crystals you have to talk to or wait for - that's not such a mystery, I just made extra sure to kill or avoid spawning those enemies on my way there (although there's a place where I instead leave it alive and squirm to manipulate it to just barely not hit me).

Oxygen damage only applies to one level that's so long you would normally have to surface for air early to avoid it, but that's where I managed to surface for air as part of my new route...

Avoiding damage in the Asterite (the helix of balls) battle and the final battle was much harder - they both do damage on any contact, the Asterite is covering the whole entryway to its room past the screen, and ramming the final boss usually results in damage (not to mention the harmful globs it spews out that have a much wider hit detection radius than they should).

The spikes at the bottom of the level directly before the first Asterite's layer are almost impossible to avoid since you're in a tunnel that restricts your turning until you're too close to avoid the spikes, but if you're going at exactly the right speed in the right place you'll catch on a corner and turn before hitting them.

[Gigafrost]

Moooommm, Nitsuja's teasing Death again...

Seriously, I enjoyed it. The shortcuts surprised me. Also, for some reason it didn't feel like it was only 3 minutes faster. I suspect it's because this is the second time I've seen the entire game through. Hmmm.

[nitsuja]

Gigafrost wrote:

[Truncated]

Yes yes yes.

I have no idea how many times I tried (and failed) to get past the crystals without getting the keys. Especially that first one, since it is so far off-center. After I saw this, the first thing I did was to go back and sneak past that crystal now that I knew how. And then back out again. :) Eat that, evil crystal.

>The most sadistic thing about this game is that... dying in that final battle sends you all the way back to the start of The Machine!

I wonder who the hell thought that could possibly be a good gameplay device. The sensible thing is of course to just input the code for the last boss which you just got instead of playing that dreaded level again.

I have beat the two final levels (in sequence, I think), but never the fourth level (The Lagoon). :/ In any case this is great, good job!

[hopper]

Yay, another Ecco run! And this one is much shorter!

You're right. After watching this run, it can safely be said that there is no way you should be able to do anything close to that without taking damage. That was just awesome. I love the diving through the wall glitch, and the sneaking past the crystals trick. The graphics in some of those levels is just amazing, and some of the music is surreal. This is a very weird game, and a very weird TAS, but it definitely gets a Yes.

[IdeaMagnate]

I understand why you owned my Pulseman WIP now. That was amazing. I want to pick it apart before I vote, but I seriously doubt I'll find anything major.

Edit: I found some strange things:

* 1:12 - Why do you use that wierd movement pattern to get by the octopus. It looks like there's a window you could go through between the spike and the octopus' tentacle.

* 1:54 - Why do you do the weird loop instead of hugging the rock. Can't the jellyfish be avoided or stunned and killed without circling backwards before going on?

* 2:27 - That crab evasion is unlikely. Very unlikely.

* 2:48 - I thought those spiky shells were supposed to hurt you.

* 2:52 - Why do you use the sonar here? There were several other places I couldn't figure out its purpose (mainly when you didn't use it to stun enemies in your path). This is only an example.

* 2:54 - Where you hit the floor looks a little too far to the right of the rock.

* 11:52 - Um, you're cheating or something. Those horseshoe crabs are supposed to hurt you.

* 17:29 - Interesting bug. It doesn't do anything useful as far as I can tell, but it's cool to see Ecco jump between two locations at 30 Hz.

[MattyXB]

Yes,

wow, fast, entertainment and full from glitches. Nice run.

[nitsuja]

IdeaMagnate wrote:

[IdeaMagnate]

Thanks for the detailed responses. The movie makes much more sense now. If this doesn't deserve a star, I don't know what does. The pervasive abuse of bugs and the way you avoid taking damage do a great job of demonstrating what this site is all about.

[moozooh]

Oh my, this is so wicked fast! o_0

I think the only thing that can prevent this movie from getting a star is that casual audience probably isn't able to follow your movements. %)

Anyway, it's a sure 'yes' from me — despite the fact I cannot vote yet.

[nico]

had no idea how innovative this game was, and it moves so fast. really cool run. love this game's soundtrack.

[nitsuja]

Truncated wrote:

[FODA]

Wow. You never cease to amaze me, nitsuja. I'm really glad someone made this run, and no damage! yay for no more damage noise.

I would have never had the energy to try something like this. Recording this game was extremely stressing to me. If it wasn't to you, wow you're good. If it was stressing, wow... you have a lot of patience. These movements looked very optimal. I don't think there will be someone crazy enough to try and beat this.

Of course, nice tricks there. The machine level was also cool.

My vote is yes, of course.

[OmnipotentEntity]

Just as a question, I've done a little experimentation, and I noticed you said you had two types of autofire for the C button, what was the quickest method for acceleration you found?

(Because it seemed to be 3 on 1 off, or something like that iirc (which I probably don't), but it also seemed to be based on where in the movement animation Ecco was, I then promptly got a headache and quit expermenting...)

[nitsuja]

OmnipotentEntity wrote:

[Atma]

wow, very nice. you swam through rock.

definitely a yes vote for entertainment, with the exception of the last 2 stages because they suck and take ages regardless of wether or not you want them to. (they account for about a third of the run on their own).

[Tailz]

HOLY CRAP! This has to be on of the most impressive things I've ever seen! This game is one of the hardest I've ever played and I myself haven't been able to get past the 8th level (the one with the big blue whale) so to see someone beat the crap out of it is a big treat. Not only did you clobber the game but you did it without taking damage! That in itself is amazing. You bypassed crystal barriers, swam through solid rock and did it all in under 30 mins! Simply amazing.

Voting YES of course.

I have just one question, ever think of trying your hand at Ecco 2: Tides of Time?

[Tub]

wow, nice one. I'd vote yes if I could.