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This is an automatically posted message for discussing submission: #1028: adelikat's NES Dragon Warrior 4 in 2:09:07

See details at: http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/1028S.html

Submission status: published
Last edited by: DeHackEd

The submission message follows:

Dragon Warrior 4 is the last NES game of the Dragon Warrior series. This is by far the longest and most advanced RPG made for the NES, featuring in depth battle sequences, AI controlled characters, and a unique chapter system.
Uses FCEU 0.98.12 (*NOTE: this run will desynch in version after this, sorry the newer version of FCEU didn't exist when I started this run!)
MANIPULATES LUCK
Uses Death as a shortcut
Aims for fastest completion
Quotes from the DW4 discussions:
Paulygon wrote: "In battle, of course, it would be relatively simple up until chapter 5, where AI considerations make it much more complicated.. Making do with a battle round's outcome that ends up being "close enough" to the way you wanted may be a necessity most of the time."
Mookish wrote: "To be honest, I don't know...I may run the first chapter this weekend as a trial, just to get an idea. I'd say 5 hours /quote
Hopper wrote: "I once posted that a speedrun of DW4 would be nearly impossible. This is a huge game with multiple chapters, a lot of playable characters, and tons of weapons and armor. I think I said that someone would have to be very brave to even attempt it, and I stand by that."
Well here it is, a run of this game, a Herculean task indeed! This run is done in a mere 2hr 9min (as opposed to the predict 5hrs). Note:
I only get into 2 fights for the sole purpose of leveling up
There is no single instance of "good enough" during fight sequences. If It was possible, I made it happen :)
Making the run:
I began this run in late July of 2005. Nine months of my life have been devoted to the making of this game. WOW! I feel like I've been on a journey of my own. In the process of making this run I have through much frustration as well as excitement. I've watch 2 dragon warrior 1, and a dragon warrior 2 run completed. I've gone through many personal life events. And in the end, I learned far more about this game and TASing than I ever thought I would.
Route Planning: A nightmare! You will notice I use death as a shortcut quite often in the run. I also keep my characters at as low level as possible. I use the return spell/Wings as efficiently as possible to reduce walking distance. Character selection was difficult for chp5 5. I went almost entirely with a Hero, Ragnar, Alena, and Taloon party. This gave me the advantage of having pure attackers, reducing the need to manipulate the AI. Taloon was invaluable for his "sweeping legs" and "awful puns" in order to incapacitate enemies. I kill off uncessary characters to prevent them from leveling up. This saved me several minutes.
Luck Manipulation: This is by far the most difficult part of the run. Unlike many RPG's almost any button pressing are any delay changes the rng. While this is a blessing it is also a nightmare for the author. With so many options I have no excuse but to get every critical hit, miss, etc.
Critical hits: In this game the odds of a critical hit is 1/64 (unlike the mere 1/32 in DW1&2 :P). The only exception is Alena who has a lv/256 chance. (notice that this mean the 2 critical hits I get early in chapter 2 are each a 1/256!) With a systematic use of button presses & waiting I manage to reduce the delay when trying to get critical hits to and average of 10 frames (with a 20max). This results in near-flawless looking fight sequences.
Miss attacks: It is always faster for a enemy to miss rather than to cause damage (even when my characters have plenty of HP). So you will see that an enemy never causes damage to my characters unless I am purposefully killing them off. Also I manipulate them well in order to get a missed attack after only a short delay.
Taloon's actions: it is highly unlikely that taloon will do any one particular action, nevertheless I manage to get the optimal action. Note that Taloon's "army of merchants" is used rarely. This is because it is rather slow and it is much less manipulatable for critical hits (button presses don't affect critical hits in this case which could lead to long delays). In one case I used the "tripping" in order to get a critical hit. This is usually slower due to the added text. But you can manipulate the amount of damage the critical hit does (which was needed to get a few more hp of damage against the final boss). The last hit of the game came from Taloon. I thought it was only fitting that the brave hero trip and accidentally kill the ruler of all evil :)
Smooth walking: This is much easier in this game than others since it is very easy to change the rng. Also up+down and left+right were used to give me more possibilities.
Future Improvements: Like with any RPG there is always the possibility of improvement. As far as route, character selection, I believe this to be as fast as possible. Further improvements would be mainly be from better luck manipulation to reduce wait times between actions. (I believe this to be unlikely without the aid of a "bot") I did sacrifice some time due to inability to luck manipulate: in chp 5, on my way to Keelon, I get stiletto earrings form a random treasure drop. It is slower to have Taloon in the party, but I needed him to steal the treasure chest. The odds of getting the regular treasure drop are 1/4096! I hope people can understand me compromising with THOSE odds :)
Special Thanks:
I want to thank TheAxeMan, Acmlm, and Paulygon for their invaluable insights and help in making this run. It wouldn't have turned out so well without their great advice.
I want to also thank hopper, spoonybard, and mart for their enthusiasm and encouragement. Many times this run was pushing my patience to the limit and I seriously considered abandoning the run. Their moral support helped me keep my motivations.
Well thats it for now, I hope you all enjoy!

Mart · Posted: 2006-03-25 00:50:41 Post subject:

Being one who looked forward to this run being made, I must say that I'm am in awe with the final time mark.

Knowing how awesome the test runs were at an even slower time, I know this is gonna be good.

Currently watching, but from knowing what Ad can do, it gets an auto-yes, for sure!

EDIT: Meh, can't vote, probably due to my low posts number... but hey, you get a moral yes from me, if that's worth anything! :D
_________________
Karma can be vengeful, don't screw around wit it!

adelikat · Posted: 2006-03-25 00:59:48 Post subject:

Mart wrote:

Fro Jackson · Posted: 2006-03-25 01:01:42 Post subject:

I've been following this run (albeit quietly) for quite some time and I'm glad to see that adelikat has finally finished it. It would appear the wait was definitely worth it, though, as I am extremely impressed by (a) the final time and (b) the amount of improvement from his first run to this one.

Obvious "yes" vote and congrats for finally finishing this. : )

EDIT: Adelikat, after you win the tourney in Chapter 2, you step outside Endor (?) castle and a soldier tells you to return to another castle... then you walk outside the town and use a wing. Why didn't you use a wing in the town?

univbee · Posted: 2006-03-25 01:51:37 Post subject:

Publish this. Publish this NOW! I've been following this run since adelikat's v1 run, which was submittable as it was, and this one is more than 20 minutes faster. I watched his last test run, so I'm not sure on Chapter 5 now, but everything else is basically flawless. Unquestionable yes vote if ever there was one.

Mart · Posted: 2006-03-25 02:06:14 Post subject:

Finished watching it (with fastforwarding walking sequences)... and here are some random thoughts:

- Smooth going with Ragnar, picking up Alex's wife just as she came in position.

- How humiliating for Cameleon Humanoid to get finished with a 1 damage hit.

- The final use of a Wing of Wyvern in chapter 2 made me go O_O... :P

- Also liked how the prison part in chapter 3 was played... It was like "Im in ur prisn, helpin ur inmates evade!!!11" (4chan meme variation).

- Another thing that made me chuckle is how Hector says he leaves to study businesses in Mintos... when you just returned to Endor! Good luck getting back there on your own, sucker! :D

- Nice to see that Master Dragon supports jailbreaking: he was so nice as to go fetch the dead body of Cristo in Gardenbur! :D

And by the way... is it mandatory to watch the fake princess kidnapping cutscene? I'm pretty sure I once went directly for the Golden Bracelet, andcame back at night with the kidnappers right there waiting for me... Or maybe it's just me...

Anyhow, that was awesome, as I expected. So the moral yes stands!
_________________
Karma can be vengeful, don't screw around wit it!

Spoony_Bard · Player Joined: 2004-08-17 16:40:05 Posts: 374

Awesome. I don't have time to watch this tonight, but I'll do it tomorrow. To be fair, I'll forego voting till then, but you can rest assured it'll be a yes vote. Great job finishing this off, adelikat!

Now... how's the propects for a DW3 run? :D

adelikat · Posted: 2006-03-25 06:24:59 Post subject:

Thank you everyone, your complements make it all worth it.

Mart: unfortunately you have to watch the princess cut scene (I assure you a tested every possiblity and it is the only way to make them appear in the graveyard)

Also, how humiliating that the ruler of all evil be taken out by a character that trips :)

But I think my favorite moment is ragnar hitting himself for a critical hit and killing himself :)

Spoonybard: you can imagine that I am pretty burned out on RPG's, but after a brief rest I will get on DW3 ;)

quietkane · Posted: 2006-03-25 07:40:17 Post subject:

*eyes bug*
DW4 in less than 4 hours? I can vote yes for that without watching the damn thing! (Though I will be watching it, you have my assurance.)

adelikat has my enduring praise.
_________________
If life were an RPG, I'd be an NPC.

mookish · Posted: 2006-03-25 08:45:49 Post subject:

quietkane wrote:

Shingen · Member Joined: 2004-11-23 07:58:06 Posts: 61

The reason for exiting Endor in Chapter 2 is because a strange force will stop the wing/return spell from working, even though the forced story event occurred.

But then again I'm a putz and didn't read the note about the version, thus I get desynchs at the 5th battle in Endor.

namflow · Posted: 2006-03-25 09:36:47 Post subject:

Awesome job. I don't really know what else to say besides I can't even begin to imagine how long it must have taken you to manipulate all those crits / misses / etc. I've been keeping track of your progress for a while now and I'm glad to see it's finally finished. Congrats!

Warp · Posted: 2006-03-25 10:08:03 Post subject:

DW4 is perhaps the best nes game I have ever played and which I have the warmest memories about (it feels incredible how much empathy you can feel towards a 3-color 16x16 pixels sprite on a computer screen).

While I'm a bit too lazy to actually get the emulator, the rom and watch the movie (and thus to vote), I'm really looking forward for the avi...

Tombad · Posted: 2006-03-25 11:02:55 Post subject:

Extremely well done. You even made the luck manipulation look so effortless, that's worth a commendation.
_________________
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home."
( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )

MattyXB · Posted: 2006-03-25 16:35:48 Post subject:

Yes from me.

Looks well done and fast for me. Some things wonder me at the beginning. But they explain thereself in the run.

1. I wonder me, why you circle around the one town in the first part. First I think the movie desync. But all work fine after you finally enter the town. Later I saw, that this game has a day and a night part. So it was easy to see, that you must enter the town in the night.

2. Later in the game I wonder me, why you enter towns or places and leave again. But then I saw, that you use magic or an item to warp to this place again.

3. Later you fight against so much enemies what wonder me to a bit. Was this for Level Up maybe have I think. But then I saw, that you everytime get some items which you need for the one shop owner or king.

But everything is clear for me after watch the run complete and it looks well done. The luck manipulation looks to great. Near no enemie appear and so less fights.
_________________
My Speedruns

Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run)
WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB)

Matty

NecroVMX · Active member Joined: 2004-08-14 01:48:05 Posts: 203

two words: holy shit

oh and a third: yes

Spoony_Bard · Player Joined: 2004-08-17 16:40:05 Posts: 374

Finally watched, so yes vote from me. Congrats again, adelikat!

getter77 · Newbie Joined: 2005-12-16 01:03:14 Posts: 28

This sounds like it could wind up having a Star by its name. DW4...in 2ish hours.....inconceivable!

:tips hat at runner:

Guybrush · Posted: 2006-03-25 23:51:15 Post subject:

This was the longest TAS I've ever watched, and it was fairly entertaining for a RPG-run. Congratulations Adelikat, you finally finished this and did some awesome job. Voting YES!

FreshFeeling · Posted: 2006-03-26 00:11:34 Post subject:

I'm doubting that this'll get a star because those are generally recommended for new viewers. Not only are large portions of this movie going to be boring for people who haven't played it, but for those who have it may be setting the bar too high.
Yes vote. Despite its length, it was entertaining.