Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Cpadolf wrote:
Oh and also opening he Maridia tube with a PB the first time you pass through it if faster, and applies to both the 100% run and the any% run.
Are you sure this trick could be useful in the 100% run? Wouldn't it be slower? I mean, after landing the Power Bomb, you charge the shinespark while waiting for the bomb to explode, so it seems it would be slower than the strategy you used in your 100% run, unless you have another strategy in mind. I know TASers usually go for realtime, but if in-game time was a choice, is there any route that could save more time than the realtime route? If so, would it be a big timesaver?
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I hadn't thought of the maridia tube thing for the 100% run. Now I'm unsure if it saves time or not for that run. Anyway, I'm not aware of any different route for a 100% run that would be faster ingame. There might be something but I have never really thought about that, and hero is the master route-maker anyway, I'm pretty bad at that stuff.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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Cp's 100% run pretty much uses the fastest in-game and realtime route. It is the same essentially because all items have to be collected, so there is no trade off like in the any% run where collecting an item wastes 7 seconds of realtime. The only possible (though highly unlikely) change for an in-game oriented route would be doing kraid before norfair, so that the wavebeam can be collected early. The only change that will actually need to be implemented in a new 100% run would be getting the xray scope right after the initial green brinstar cleanup. This is because a new method of charging a shinespark in a short distance has made it possible to shinespark through the entire room leading to the xray.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
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What about picking up ice beam earlier? It seems to me it would be faster (in-game) to freeze the creature and go through the ceiling to pick up Spring Ball than waiting for the graple block to desapear and climb all the way up. The problem i see in picking up Ice Beam earlier is that it would be a little slower in the post-gate rooms due to the fact that you don't have Space Jump or Spring Ball, but probably just some frames. Also, there would be the need of entering the gates room after Maridia to break the PB blocks and go get that annoying missile, so it would be another door trasition for realtime and maybe one more second in-game time wasted till Samus reach the PB block, but this loss would be a trade off for more in-game time when getting the SpringBall with the freeze glitch. Another problem is that the TASer would have to clean all the way using Missiles or he would have to disable the ice beam and to enable it again to fight Ridley would be more two pause screens. Also, it's sure faster (in-game) to go to Crocomire's area having Plasma (for Crocomire), Space Jump (for Power Bombs and the Missile after Grapple) and the SpringBall for the last Missile of the area. Going to Crocomire's area would be probably faster if done like in Console runs, i mean, after beating Ridley, so you don't have to stop Samus while she is in full speed when passing over Crocomire's door. Another concern is that if you let Crocomire for later, you wouldn't have the early power bombs from his area and in that case it would be better to let Kraid for later too, when you would have PB. But if you do that, maybe it wouldn't be possible to go through Wrecked Ship due to the lack of energy because you didn't pick up the energy Tank in Kraid's area, and that could be a problem too for picking up the PB In Crateria before entering the Gauntlet (that would be another problem)... If there was a way of doing all things above mentioned, the route would be: Go to Norfair instead of Kraid's area, get the Speedbooster and come back, get ice beam and up to Wrecked Ship, come back through Crateria getting the PB and the itens in the gauntlet, go for Brinstar Clean up and after that, head to Maridia. After Maridia Head to Kraid, Ridley and after that go for Crocomire's area. There are probably issues i don't remember now that could turn this route slower, if not unfeasible. Also, iirc the in-game time of Cpadolf's last run was 36:03 (?), and if he is right about the time he could save in a new run, the final time would be around 35:30, so even if this route i mentioned is feasible and does save in-game time, if he didn't manage to clean the way using missiles and really have to enter the pause screen to enable or disable the ice beam, it would be probably around 9 seconds slower in realtime, and if the new route (if feasible) doesn't save at least this 9 seconds back, it wouldn't be worth going for it as the run would be slower in realtime than you could do. Anyway, i'm probably saying bullshit here. Edit: Are you sure that going for Kraid first would be faster? If you do that, you'll have to back track later to get that annoying missile. If going for Kraid first would be a choice, then climbing the Brinstar Shaft to get early power bombs would be a better option, so you can avoid backtracking to Kraid's area and could use the Shortcut in Bubble room when returning from SpeedBooster. PB would be usefull too when returning from Hijump boosts. In Console conditions, earlier pb saves around 5 seconds, but it could be different in TAS conditions. Well, This is basically the same route for Console runs, the difference here would be Cleaning Upper crateria after Wrecked Ship...
Post subject: X-ray climb
Joined: 7/31/2011
Posts: 6
Hello, I'm new to this site. I'm not really interested in doing a TAS of super metroid (I don't think it's possible to significantly improve beyond what already exists on this site), but I am trying to do a 7% run with boring old human skill (the required 6% for using the x-ray climb plus hi jump so I don't have to bomb jump all the way across the x-ray scope room). I understand how to try to walljump off the inside of a door to get stuck in the other side of it, but when I try to do this in the statue room leading to tourian, I get stuck at the ceiling. Does anyone understand the technique Cpadolf used for getting stuck in that door? I don't know if this is some sort of closely guarded secret or something, but I can't find anything on it anywhere. If this has already been explained somewhere, my bad, just point me to it. On a separate note, I've used the x-ray climb in MB's room after dying in that one room in green brinstar (again, see Cpadolf's 6% run), but when I hit the transition block either the screen blacks out or it tries to put me back in the previous room and then freezes. This happens in both snes9x and zsnes. Does this only work correctly on the snes or something or am I doing something wrong? edit: actually, it is possible to get across that room and back without the hi jump, so 6%.
Joined: 7/2/2007
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You can watch Cpadolf's run with input display on to see exactly what inputs he's doing; that should help you figure out how to avoid getting stuck in the wall. As for the MB room skip, my understanding is that the offscreen "terrain" includes a lot of invalid objects that you have to avoid touching, without being able to see where they are (or where you are). Doing this without access to savestates seems implausible, or at least very difficult. I don't know if those invalid blocks change across runs (due to memory being different); if that is the case then an unassisted MB skip would be horribly luck-based.
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Joined: 7/31/2011
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Um... how exactly do you turn "input display" on? I tried downloading the .smv, but snes9x gives some sort of error message when I try to play it without loading a rom first, and won't let me open it when I have super metroid running. It might not help that I don't have the JPN/USA version.
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As far as I can recall you only have to press the comma on your keyboard to turn on/off the input display. Comma = , right of the letter M. ;) Edit: Also I think you have to load the ROM first before you try to open an SMV file. If the ROM is a different version than the one in the SMV, it will not work, at least not properly most of the times. So if the SMV is recorded using the Japanese ROM, you cannot play at all, or properly, if you use the American ROM. Often there is a dialogue box stating that the hash check failed or something like that. That will give you a hint that you might have the wrong ROM version, or a corrupted ROM perhaps.
BigBoct
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If it won't let you open it at all, you're probably trying to use the wrong version branch. Super Metroid is mostly TASed with SNES9X v1.43+, but there's also v1.51+ and v1.52+.
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Well, I recorded a movie with my version of the rom and played it back. Comma does nothing. Just for fun, I pressed everything else and none of that did anything either. I'm using snes9x 1.52 (100) on a mac, so maybe it's a different shortcut. I don't think it even shows up on the keyboard config menu, but I'm not really sure what some of those icons mean so maybe it does.
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Sadly the documentation of snes9x usage on www.snes9x.com is scarce it seems. Not sure how you go about in MAC if you can pass command line options to snes9x or something. In *nix you can use snes9x -displaykeypress for example. Is there any helpfile available for Snes9x in MAC?
Joined: 7/2/2007
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Last I heard you can't get the TAS-enabled emulators on OSX, unfortunately. Unless you feel like figuring out how to compile them from source. So much for input display. :\
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creaothceann
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What about Wine?
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Isn't there something like Boot camp for MAC? Or some kind of other virtual machine a'la VmWare or VirtualBox? I have been a bit troubled about wine the last couple of days concerning Snes9x. Performance issues, and sound splutters. A bit of fiddling will probably take care of that though.
Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
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Derakon wrote:
Unless you feel like figuring out how to compile them from source.
That won't help much. Whoever added rerecording support did so with little regard to linux or mac compatibility. The sources won't compile any more. I've tried fixing the build problems (missing includes and #ifdefs etc), but that wasn't enough. You'd have to rewrite some features without using the winapi. wine on linux works well enough. Should work on mac, too.
m00
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I haven't yet tried running SNES9x in VirtualBox, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work. Dual booting would also work of course. But OSX native doesn't seem trivial to achieve.
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Well, I'm not going to bother with any of that. I have a PC as well, so I got snes9x 1.52 for it. It's a lot nicer than the mac version, which does pretty much nothing. However, it won't play cpadolf's run because it says it's incompatible with the snes9x version. Are there more recent versions of snes9x that have been around since that run was recorded, or is it just not backward compatible?
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Download and use this version to play any Super Metroid TAS in tasvideos.org.
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Thanks. It's working now, but is it possible to rewind the movie a certain number of frames if you want to rewatch a part of it instead of reopening it and skipping all the way to where you were before? On a separate note, is there any program that can read data beyond the room boundaries and construct an image of what samus would encounter if she were to x-ray climb out of the room? I know tileviewer works for normal rooms, but I'm not sure if it can read outside of rooms properly.
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SNES9x doesn't currently have rewind functionality, so if you want to back up, you'll have to use savestates. As for reading data outside the room boundaries, probably the best you could hope for is a Lua script that the creators of the glitch TAS used, assuming they did use one instead of just memory watch.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
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Err... Didn't someone create a rewind script with LUA? Maybe it was not for this emulator?
Joined: 7/31/2011
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Anyway, Cpadolf wrote:
Saturn wrote:
What I wonder though, you mentioned in the description to use a "cam hack" for optimizing the out-of-room parts. Do you mind giving a bit more information about what it is, and where to get it? This might be a useful tool for everybody who plans to do runs that use OOR travelling.
It's basically a string of codes you put into the Game Genie/Action Replay section of Snes9x that Kejardon came up with. What it does is that it always lets the screen scroll. Any movie played with it for more than a few seconds will desync though. This is the code: 80A5286B 80A7316B 80A70A80 80A6416B 80A92B80 80A8FB00 80A8D300 80A90A80 80A6DC80 80A95780 80A69880 80A98580
It works and it's really pretty awesome, but will sometimes cause universal graphics glitch-esque problems when samus is moving quickly. edit: it also works well for figuring out how the space/time beam will behave if you want to move offscreen after using it.
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This has happened to me once a long time ago is there any way to replicate this? If not I would like to know how it happened anyway. From what I remember its was like he tried to Swoop and Tail Stomp me at the same time. I don't know if that helps, but if anyone can figure it out I would really appreciate it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX2xlRN9y9Q
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
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Joined: 11/26/2007
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Hi-low. Me, Taco and Hero have been secretly working on a RBO, the very same RBO Spoofer and Hero used to work on but then got abandoned because Spoofer disappeared. We remade pretty much the entire run starting from Blue Brinstar, to include a trick which allowed us to collect the Blue Brinstar E-tank early, with a zero momentum CWJ (which saved about 1000 frames (!!)). We also smashed some serious Dinosaur butt, just to CWJ off of it to get into the right position to open the door with a warp around shot and then to finally shinespark through it. We just made it to LN and thought it would be a good time to WIP. Enjoy or something. RBO
BigBoct
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I don't think it's quite an RBO anymore if you're taking out minibosses before the primary bosses, but I'm willing to put that complaint aside on account of HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME.
Previous Name: boct1584