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RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
15:20: Video seems to be removed <_< but apparently you can clip through this gate by locking onto a bug on the other side and jumping at it to go through.
Any more info on this? I can't seem to do it. edit: figured it out, thanks to zero. It seems to require at least two jumps, to make the gate swing, and then a second to clip through. And even then, requires the bug to be in a perfect position, and they can't be manipulated at all before i get to the gate, since they stand still until i scare them away. Furthermore, even if i manage to clip through perfectly without wasting any time, i'd also have to deal with the bugs not being right on top of each other. Even if all of this would be possible to do, my time would be better spent trying to improve goat herding. It'd be neat to include, but i really don't see it happening.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
I can save ~7 seconds by skipping the twilight messengers after getting the master sword (by going oob in the same place as i do for EMS, and walking around the barrier). Is there any particular problem with skipping them, or should i do this? Why was this not done in any of the real time runs?
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
rog wrote:
I can save ~7 seconds by skipping the twilight messengers after getting the master sword (by going oob in the same place as i do for EMS, and walking around the barrier). Is there any particular problem with skipping them, or should i do this?
Twilit messengers. Doesn't skipping them prevent the warp from opening? If that's the only problem and you don't need to ever warp back, then why not :P
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Oh, hm, that could very well be the case. I need to warp back twice. So i guess if that is the requirement for opening the warp, i do need to fight them.
Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 33
I want to say that skipping the messengers makes the game impossible to beat, but I don't remember if that's really the case. But yea, you'd lose way too much time skipping them because you'd have to spend a good chunk of time back tracking though the forest, and then again to warp the bridge.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Yeah, ok. I didn't realize warping to the area required the messengers to be killed. Thanks.
RachelB
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Player (130)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Just made it back to sacred grove, a total of 10.15 seconds faster than before. Thanks to paraxade for the detailed critique of my last wip. I'll probably post a new wip when i reach the forest temple.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Can't do any songs during howling, or anything interesting :( During the first two bars or so, i can do basically anything, as long as i stop on the proper note at the right time, but all of the rest need to be done almost perfectly right to count. How sad.
Joined: 11/13/2007
Posts: 30
When you get to the last Skull Kid room, the way he works with the puppets is there is a timer that determines when he blows the horn again. The timer start once you kill one of the puppets. So the optimal way to do that room is to kill one puppet as fast as possible and then avoid all the other ones so you don't end up with any extra hit stops.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Excellent info, thanks.
RachelB
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Player (130)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
I think might put this on hold for a while. I could live with 20-25% emulation speed in a 2d game, but when every single frame needs to be done repeatedly to optimize even the simplest of walking around, this is just getting too tedious for me. Even a single frame advance comes at a noticeable delay. I'll probably still work on it from time to time, but right now, i have no motivation at all to keep working on it, until i have some money to build a new computer. Expect my new wip no later than january 2013.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
rog wrote:
I'll probably still work on it from time to time, but right now, i have no motivation at all to keep working on it, until i have some money to build a new computer.
Sorry to hear that :( What kind of CPU and GPU were you using?
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
bkDJ wrote:
rog wrote:
I'll probably still work on it from time to time, but right now, i have no motivation at all to keep working on it, until i have some money to build a new computer.
Sorry to hear that :( What kind of CPU and GPU were you using?
I am using a laptop with a 3 core 2.2 ghz phenom II, and 5450M >_>
Joined: 6/22/2010
Posts: 8
Aww, that's really sad... :_( I would have donated a kickass Desktop for you if you continued since money is not an issue for me, but due to my past experience of donating... I don't donate anymore until I see an end result. :o But yeah, I hope we can hear for a WIP anytime in the future... be it one year or two year later. Or by anyone else who wishes to continue the run.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
wringer wrote:
Aww, that's really sad... :_( I would have donated a kickass Desktop for you if you continued since money is not an issue for me, but due to my past experience of donating... I don't donate anymore until I see an end result. :o But yeah, I hope we can hear for a WIP anytime in the future... be it one year or two year later. Or by anyone else who wishes to continue the run.
Hah. I can reuse most of the parts from my last pc, and i have a decent video card already, so i'd only need a cpu, mobo, and ram. Unfortunately, i can't seem to find a job anywhere, so getting the last couple hundred i'd need for that is rather impossible at the moment. If that changes (with any luck, it may; i had an interview last week that went pretty well), it'd only be a few weeks before i could afford what i need. Worst case scenario, i'll get some money for christmas, and i'll restart it then. I'm definitely not giving up on doing it.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
speed values: sidehop: 28. instant acceleration, 3 frames of 0 speed every 15 frames (on flat surface), for an average of 23.33. sidehop roll: 23 backflip: 24. same acceleration as sidehop, average speed of 20 running: 23 walking sideways: 13 backwalk: 13 crawling (~5 average, changes every frame) walking forward with L target: 16.1 jump slash: 25 spinner: 26 iron boots: 3.68 iron boot roll: 10 (same (de)accel rate as normal roll, though you'll get 10 speed right from idle) iron boot sidehop: 28 (5 on, 3 off on flat surface, for 17.5 average speed) iron boots backhop: 25 autojump off a ledge: 21.6 Walking with ball and chain: 3.68 shield attack: 14 sidehop roll: 25 magic armor with no rupees: same as iron boots. also wearing iron boots in addition to magic armor doesn't slow you down at all. good LJA: 72 flat ground lja: 36 LJA from target over lower elevation than link: 15-30 less shitty lja, but still not good: up to ~56? swimming: 8 swim dash: 13 swim while sinking with iron boots: 1.28. If you take iron boots off, it increase by 3 every frame until it reaches 8. If you put them back on speed drops by .5 each frame until reaching 1.28 swimming up: 22 (increases by 3 every frame up to 12, then accelerates by .75 every time you press A again). Drops back to 0 if you don't press A for 32 frames. Once you hit 22 speed, you only need to press a once per second to maintain it. zora armor swimming: 14 zora armor fast swim: 22 running speed from idle: 0,0,0,0.046,1.06,1.66,3.06,0.96,3.29,6.56,11.2,16,19,20.9,22.8,23,23,23,etc underwater with iron boots: roll: 7.5 sidehop: 8.4 rolling: 7.5 backhop: 7.5 walking: 14.7 jumpslash: 7.5 rolling: with speed <= ~10 (9 frames from standing still): 25 with speed <= ~15: 27.7 speed >= ~22: 32.9 (there's more tiers, but since only the first and last even matter, i'm not testing them all) roll acceleration from 23 speed run: 23, 32.9*15, 31.9, 30.9, 29.9, 28.9, 27.9 repeated. Average speed is 32.15 average roll speed from idle, to 22.8 run speed, then rolling, after 3 rolls: 27.14048 Average roll speed from idle, after 3 rolls: 27.73047619 Rolling right away also accelerates much faster (jumps right to 25 speed), so that third roll happens much quicker. So it is always best to roll on the first possible frame (except on the second roll, wait 3 frames to max out speed). epona: running: 35 OR 42. dashing: 50 OR 73, depending on area... epona slide: 73 wolf: running: 25 dashing: 33 OR 45. After pressing A, it goes to 65 for 1 frame, then drops to 59,53,47,45. Otherwise it never changes. It appears this depends on where you are (?). In some areas it's 33, others it's 45. When it is 33, you get 1 frame of 35 speed then right back to 33 after pressing A. This has instant acceleration, regardless of how fast you were moving before. sidehop: 33 backhop/flip: 30 backwalk: 12 sideways walk: 22 walk forward while L targeting: 22 jump attack: 26 B attack while moving: 30 swimming: 9 swimming (dash): 20. 3 speed/frame acceleration, then stays at 20 forever. autojump: 22.34 wolf run acceleration: +3 per frame until it reaches 25. Memory addresses appear to change every time you change areas or watch a cutscene, but values are consistent and easy to refind... tl;dr here is it's always fastest to roll on the very first possible frame. A single sidehop is also faster than a single roll, from idle, but that's probably never useful. Wolf speed depends on where you are, and it sometimes only just barely faster than rolling. There also may or may not be situations where LGAing (off enemies only, throwing the boomerang is too slow) could be faster than rolling.
Joined: 10/5/2007
Posts: 18
Location: Hiding in your closet
I'd like to point out as well that it is very slightly faster to accelerate fully before doing your first roll (it's a similar situation to TWW where rolling from a standing state is really slow).
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
ING-X wrote:
I'd like to point out as well that it is very slightly faster to accelerate fully before doing your first roll (it's a similar situation to TWW where rolling from a standing state is really slow).
As i said, and even gave some numbers to back it up, that's not true. Here's the exact speed at each frame, starting from standing still, complete with average speed per frame: After the 29 speed roll you get 32.9, just like if you got up to full speed before rolling. You'll notice that at no point is running first faster. It's not even close.
Joined: 10/5/2007
Posts: 18
Location: Hiding in your closet
Huh. That's... really odd. :S This is really gonna fuck with my strategies for my run :(
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
It takes 3 rolls to hit max speed if you roll right from idle, but you just can't beat the instant acceleration.
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
Actually it's probably faster to run for a frame or two after the first roll, so the second hits 32.9 speed, i'll test that later. edit: it takes 3 frames, and is indeed faster.
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
Damage values: wooden sword slash: 5 wood sword JS/spin attack: 15 ordon sword slash: 10 ordon jump slash: 30 spin attack: 30 master sword slash: 20 MS jump slash: 60 spin attack: 60 bomb: 200 spinner attack: 10 bumping into an enemy with spinner: 1 iron boots: 20 (hits twice for 40 damage) bow: 10 ball and chain: 30 slingshot: 0 mortal draw: 400 Slashing whiling running does 2 damage with MS, 1 with ordon sword, and 0 with wooden sword wolf: B: 10 jump attack: 30 boomerang mini boss: 200 max hp first dungeon boss: 50 max hp (it resets when you kill it).
Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 102
Location: Not Japan
You could also test slash while walking forward with ordon/ms and wooden sword (lol) if you want. I'm fairly sure the walking forward slashes do less damage than standard slashes or thrusts.
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
Yeah, i'm going to do some more tests. I'll get around to it sooner or later.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
So the fastest form of movement as human Link is: roll, run for 3 frames, then keep rolling until destination? And as a wolf, 1) dash a while, 2) sidehop a bunch until you can dash again, 3) GOTO 1 ?
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