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Posted: 9/14/2015 1:34 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (70)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
So here's the link to the unlisted video. I am leaving this unlisted until I get someone to encode the whole thing for me (which will involve some discussion about some BS this game has at the end of it post-"the end" screen). Once that's done + notes are typed up, I guess it's going to be submitted. https://youtu.be/cZOAtR1Q6wI I intentionally didn't time it out for RTA yet, but I'd guess around 1:11:xx . Update #1: So the RTA comparison time is 1:10:40. I also put the TAS notes together today, you can read/critique them here: http://pastebin.com/WrxmCJCF If anyone is interested in helping with 100% for this game, let me know. Update #2: Does anyone know anyone that can encode this for me? That would be greatly appreciated.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 11/30/2015 9:36 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (70)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Okay, so I've been planning/routing SoE 100% for ~month and plan on hitting it and Illusion of Gaia 100% pretty hard next year from the get-go. But I have a slight problem. My personal preference and the RTA definition of 100% is not the same as the current definition on the site. There's obviously arguments for each side, but I wanted to get feedback here before starting the moving because it obviously will have repercussions within said movie depending on the ultimate decision. Here's a quote from the submission text Saturn provided for his 100% (which I would view as Max% or just a collection quest).
while collecting at least 1 of every possible item, geting all formulas and beating all possible sidequests and bosses. It also shows every secret you can find.
The definition of 100% for RTA (and what I routed for, since I routed RTA with LovableLambhop and LemonsX) is as follows: - Collect all Alchemy/Call Bead spells - Collect all Weapons/Armor - Collect all Charms/Trinkets/Market Items (excluding things like Tinker's turn-in items, since they aren't permanent) So as it's probably obvious by now, that doesn't include 1 of every item and definitely doesn't include all bosses. Some justifications for the RTA/my definition, for the curious: - All bosses are left out because there's no way to track it and ultimately they're just a waste of effort/time and in my opinion, do not add much value since they more or less get one-shot anyways. - 1 of every item seems somewhat pointless to me and sounds more like a Max% type thing. I'm not sure if my logic here makes sense or not, but if this is considered a requirement due to being technically tracked through the menu, that's okay and I can route this in. More than happy to compromise here if that's what everyone agrees upon. So given those two things, I would happily accept having to route in the 1 of every item, but I do feel that all bosses should be eliminated from the category definition since they a) aren't tracked and b) serve no real purpose outside of the bosses we still manage to kill. There's also concern over the boss Coleoptera, which is the "guardian" of Tinker's Wheel item. If the people here think that item is worth shoving in the collection process even though under normal circumstances it would otherwise be long-forgotten (it isn't gotten in RTA runs of this game for this reason), I can accept this as well. But I would opt to leave it out otherwise, under the premise that it's normally not there anyways assuming you progress normally. I may take a while to respond to things in the following weeks, but I will at least make an attempt to check things every other day on here to discuss this concern and answer any questions if there are some. Reference Material: - 100% route ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e-G2YKefBxLH5TSkcUezpcM69LJqi1qnTgzDxod4igY/edit#gid=1629734002&vpid=A2 ) - Current 100% RTA record ( http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/2836718 ) - Saturn's 100% TAS ( http://tasvideos.org/396M.html ) - Submission Note for said TAS ( http://tasvideos.org/783S.html ) As always, thanks for anything said in advance and can't wait to get started on my projects next year. [/url]
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 12/1/2015 3:34 AM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2121)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
I say go with the RTA definition. Saturn's 100% runs all go heavily overboard with unnecessary collection, and personally I would argue they should all be obsoleted with more grounded runs that stick to what the RTA communities define as 100%.
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Posted: 12/5/2015 2:11 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (70)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Okay, well since nobody else has replied, I'm comfortable with routing and working on the RTA variant of the definition. In fact, I've already started jotting things down alongside LovableLambchop (one of the runners for the game) and we've gotten it pretty optimized up to pre-Vipers in Act 1. Doesn't sound like a whole lot, but most of our route is theory that I haven't been able to thoroughly test yet to even see if it's possible. That being said, here's what we got so far (for people who are kind of familiar with the game): http://pastebin.com/EnN3uu7Y TY Samsara for the reply, btw.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 12/22/2015 8:40 PM
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ars4326
He/Him
Experienced player (764)
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Late response, but I'm also with Samsara on going with the RTA variation (they're often better defined anyway, since active runners put more work into developing them). Looking forward to the 100% branch, Panda!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 1/3/2016 6:57 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (70)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Thanks Ars for the response. I'd have responded a bit earlier, but my motherboard and processor decided to more or less completely die on me. So yeah, been dealing with that. Either way, I can't wait to get going on 100%, Act 1 is going to be absolutely ridiculous. We actually can't even route past Mammoth Graveyard because there's just not enough tested information. So yeah, gonna be a good time. I'll be working on Illusion of Gaia 100% as well alongside SoE's 100%. The core focus (currently) is SoE, though, but that'll probably change throughout the process. We're also possible getting a hitbox viewer, so that's neat too. :D Anywho, probably going to start it all up post-AGDQ. [assuming everything works good on windows 10? I didn't really have an option this time when (re)building everything]
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 1/3/2016 8:25 AM
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Assassin
Joined: 10/28/2004
Posts: 39
according to the starmen.net/pkhack people circa 2005, Bytes 14-15 in the 74-byte enemy ROM data are the "Collision box size". one of these days, i'll add that info to my guide. they also have a few other things i'm missing: http://starmen.net/pkhack/soe/ntsc/soeenemy.txt
Posted: 1/3/2016 3:21 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (70)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Thanks Assassin, I'll pass that along to the person working on it next chance I get. Progress Update: - Recycled Any% TAS file to get the same RNG on the introduction guardbot fight as well as all of Southern Forest - Figured out how to properly implement Fire Eyes' Cutscene skip - Currently working on getting flowers taken care of in Eastern Forest - They're not cooperating... I'm still very worried about how the route will look post-Thraxx. It's incapable of being tested without abusing TAS capabilities to get there in the first place, at least with any sort of accurate representation. The core problem lies in the Mammoth Graveyard fight with the Viper Commander. We need X Hardballs (amount unknown, unfortunately, due to massive fluctuations in damage output RNG) and Y Call Beads, which we should get from Fire Eyes. This leads us to the following questions/problems: a) How many do we need of each? Realistically, there's no telling. I may have to do this part over quite a few times unless I get lucky. b) Do we pick up extra Call Beads in various places? Initially, I'm not going to, because I want to know the absolute bare minimums and picking any of them up wastes ~20-30 frames. Adds up after 1 or 2 when they may not even be needed. c) Money and 100% equipment requirements? Yeah, it's a pain to route, and there's no telling. d) Crystals? The current theory is to knock one of the enemies post-Thraxx down towards a container which has crystals and then use an ingredient pickup glitch to grab the drop amount out of the container, similar to the method in Any% for the 99 Call Beads in Pyramids. That being said, this is mostly due to money constraints, so finding a better money solution means we can just buy crystals instead of this option. However, nothing I've come up with personally yields any positive results, and nobody within the community seems to have any other ideas. So yeah, I don't know when the next update about this will be, but I'm definitely working on it every day for at least a couple hours. Also trying to learn the 100% Illusion of Gaia route so I can get that TAS going as well as learning Prehistorik Man (All Levels) for running and possibly TAS'ing also. Busy busy... Progress Update #2: - Both Eastern Forest flower manipulations are done and optimized to the get the best outcome for the RNG seed I have on that map. I thought about going back and changing it, but considering the delayed amount is only 1 frame of manipulation, it's going to break even if I went back and changed the seed by delaying a single frame before leaving the village. So this is about as good as it gets so far. :) - Quicksand area + Jaguar Ring Cave went great, the guy's manipulation cost 0 frames and I got both quicksand positions perfect so no losses there either. - The 4 Crystal container introduces a new thing to TAS'ing this game, which is grabbing things with the dog and transferring that "event" to the boy. So as opposed to Any%'s TAS, where I waited for the boy to reach the end of the area, I now just swap to the boy while the dog is "attacking" the 4 Crystal container, then swap back really fast to keep going. - All that combined, and this TAS is off to an awesome start. I still have no idea what's going to happen post-Thraxx though. Will continue updating this post until I do see what the outcome is after things with Thraxx and my current route idea. Progress Update #3: - W.I.P. Video: https://youtu.be/aPmeNMzEL04 - Really happy with how things are turning out so far. Blows Any% out of the water for the most part in terms of even further optimizations/manipulations. - Speaking of Any%, it's more or less completely outdated now. If anyone's looking to start a somewhat large project and is also interested in this game, let me know so we can start up a co-op on Any% to get it up to a much better state. - Not sure when I'll continue working on this, I'm juggling a bunch of projects at the moment but now that Thraxx is out of the way, the real fun can begin. ~~~~This project is currently on hold because I ran out of interest~~~~ If you'd like to pick up where I left off, I am more than happy to help you do so. You can contact me on twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 , SDA forums (Theangrypanda) , or on here/various discords/twitch chats. My interest ran out because certain people tend to overstep their respective boundaries when questioning things and after explaining things repeatedly over the past 3 years regarding these things, I'm just simply too tired of it to care anymore. Sorry guys. :( <3 Panda
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
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