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Sorry for bringing this up so late but I'm still not convinced nano overloads should be avoided.
In the previous thread I asked for opinions and got only one opinion other than the author's, and it consisted of general rhetorics and RTA rhetorics.
The TAS-related point against them is that they cost a couple extra minutes. But nonetheless they are identical in accessibility to all other collectables. Now accessibility is the primary criterion here. You can't access all nano/health/armor/ammo by simply running into them if you're maxed out. Nano overloads you just freely pick up. And as noted by the author, their negative effects (regarding routing) can be manipulated away.
Matslo123 wrote:
But exta input is trivial, all you have to do is press c, enter and esc.
Hourglass is what makes it so hard.
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This is called a workaround. If we can avoid the original problem, none of the workarounds is needed. The original problem is contradicting this rule:
Movie Rules wrote:
Extra input is trivial to execute for anyone replaying the movie
The official preference is also having the full file published:
Judge Guidelines wrote:
It is preferred to contain such input in the submitted movie
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Even verifying they are identical is a pain thanks to HG.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If the community agrees to define it as proper full completion rule set, it won't have to be entertaining.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Now that I'm done with TASing Pitfall!, I'm planning to look into improving this run. Assuming that the time I finish with ties with Spikestuff's time, will the person whose movie gets published be determined by which movie is more entertaining?
Theoretically. But I don't think we allow undefined number of increasingly more entertaining but equally fast submissions to indefinitely obsolete one another. When one movie implements new time-saving techniques, and another just reuses them while trying to be more entertaining, speed competition becomes less meaningful, and it also makes little sense if entertainment value of that branch is low anyway. We only need a tie breaker when 2 equally fast runs are done independently, neither is borrowing techniques from its counterpart, and the only priority difference is entertainment.
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BTW every time I judge this game I find it really annoying to have to use 2 movies. Hourglass is not like any emulator, and it's unpleasantly hard to just keep sending inputs to it after the movie has ended. It can't pause at movie end, it doesn't display half of useful info that emulators display, and it crashes like crazy on top of that. So while verifying both movies every time is unpleasant, working on it to extend the movie (yet not too much!) is a real pain.
I'd very much prefer switching to standard approach to ending a movie that just reaches the credits, shall we? This goes to both current (and all future) submissions of this game.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Is any work planned? This submission is easily rejectable right now.
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Furthermore, at least for Expert mode I can confirm that button presses in the short time-frame starting at the first frame at which a new image search can be started and up to the frame before it is started/initiated can influence the RNG that determines which image pattern one gets, too. But again, I haven't tested this for Normal mode. But if such were also applicable in Normal mode, then according to
LeHulk wrote:
The best I could do was: delay 2 frames for the first level, and 1 frame for the second level.
this would at most allow to reduce 1 frame (directly, neglecting potential consequential further time-saves or time-loss if e.g. the amount of lag would change later on, but I'd estimate that later additional changes of this kind would be very small if they would even happen to begin with), namely in the first instance where a 2 frames delay occured, if it were possible with inputs on the first frame to manipulate the RNG such that one could start the next image on the next frame, instead of waiting 2 frames and triggering it on the 3rd frame.
This saves 1 frame indeed, but I'm unable to get the same optimal pattern for the next level without further delays. So I think this movie is optimal.
What bothers me is difficulty. For this game, hardest mode is not "same but longer", the patterns seem to be different, for example your level 2 is way shorter than in this submission, but I was unable to get this pattern on normal difficulty.
So I'm uncertain as to which difficulty to prefer. I only know we have to prefer some, because there's not enough difference to have them both published. Any iopinions?
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Since the game is unlikely to look too different, and it's still going to Vault, improvements aren't gonna affect the entertainment level (which uses to be the main reason to cancel and resubmit).
Upload whatever movie you think should satisfy the optimality requirements to userfiles, post the link here, and we'll review it.
If you're still working on it after a week, I'll delay it, but lack of activity might lead to rejection as well.
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Here's a tasproject that beats loop 1 19 frames faster.
https://files.tasvideos.org/common/SubmissionFiles/6386S/cabbage.7z
It looks like this submission will have to be redone. Since movement is not constant, but is instead move-move-move-pause every 4 frames (starting at different phase across levels), and jumping is move-pause every 2 frames, these have to be aligned carefully to result in lowest delays. I didn't notice any benefit from delaying the level entrance in order to get different patterns though.
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Is that ID the same for every installation/user?
EDIT:
<fsvgm777> feos: Yes.
<fsvgm777> It's the ID from the Steam page.
<fsvgm777> https://store.steampowered.com/app/260790/1001_Spikes/
<fsvgm777> In this game's case: 260790
<fsvgm777> (and I've tested it myself, so I can confirm it)
<feos> then it should be fine
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Input complexity is a part of technical quality if you will. If technically complex movie results in visually repetitive gameplay, that reduces entertainment. Things that can help with "running right and jumping" include heavy resource management, variety of routing options, level layout that requires lots of direction changes, visually varied movement, and all of that should be apparent.
Indeed some of popular games that entertain the audience are somewhat simplistic. I believe this originates from subjective factors like lots of people being aware of the game and posting feedback, where they use to strongly like the result. For obscure games a few people know about, you don't have this kind of subjective (and not too rational) support. So the game has to offer quite some variety to invite enthusiastic feedback, which I don't consider to be the case here.
Does this sound better?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Svimmer wrote:
"He also fulfills every upstart gangsta's daydream, cashing in on one loophole to dodge all the legwork."
I definitely love this version, even if it ends up nowhere.
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I post here because it's subjective, for which we need more people to assess it.
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There's a disagreement regarding this sentence in the movie description:
He also fulfills everyone's dream to complete the game just by basically messing around.
I initially added it after Moth has approved it, and then Spike edited it out. I noticed that after a while and edited it back in.
What do you guys think of it? Is it good as is, should it be reworded, or maybe completely removed?
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Good, now please reach the level end sooner than our movie does.
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Small changes don't require resubmitting, especially when there's not feedback yet. We just replace the movie file like before.
There's a special field for the game version, we don't put it into the game name field.
Branch labels are lowercase.
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Welp... It looks like I just got usurped.
Nothing is perfect, neither is this run (presumably). You have chance to participate in a frame war :)
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Svimmer wrote:
I'm probably influenced by RTA-runs where they're never considered at all.
Why are they not considered though?
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I must share this! The way I see freedom he's talking about here, freedom is not having to depend on things stronger than you are.
Link to video
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Undesired powerup is an interesting con, even though sticking to strictly one and not two instances when defining a collectable feels a bit weird. I'm not opposed to avoiding this thing, but I want others' opinions too.
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Finally someone has researched it!
The trick with avisynth command here is that it splices video and audio independently and then muxes them. + means UnalignedSplice() which we need here. If we do ++, it's AlignedSplice() and it splices segments preserving the gaps in audio and video.
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Splice
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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AVI should work, its command is:
mame-rr -aviwrite dump.avi
Do you have any errors with it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
