Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
This was discussed on Discord but here's the summary.
Since using a different character is not more entertaining than the current publication, it'd need to be faster to obsolete it. It could still go to Playground (until rules on different chars in Standard change), though that's different from a publication. A fully entertainment based branch would be publishable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
While I wait for my TAS to finish being judged, I have made this other TAS of a SMW Creepypasta Hack. I would like to send it as a submission, but because of its gore I have doubts whether it will be admitted or directly canceled for this same reason. Is this Hack admissible?
Link to video
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
We couldn't reach a complete agreement among staff, but at the very least publishing such a movie would require a content warning system, which we plan to add but don't have yet.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
hello, wanted to ask a question about a movie for beatmania 2ndMIX i was thinking about submitting, but wasn't entirely sure if i should. it's normally an arcade rhythm game, which would usually probably warrant something like a max score run with a lot of showiness in extra keypresses, due how the game works involving scoring and bonuses. but, the movie i made uses a hidden code/button combination in the game's song select to skip playing any songs at all, jumping straight to the ending (detailed more here -- normally, this allows you to play any song in the game).
would something like this be worth submitting, or should i just abstain and try for something a bit more interesting? i'm not entirely sure if using something that technically falls on the category of level select (even though in a rhythm game, you pick the songs freely) such as that would be considered not OK.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Skipping everything and simply calling an ending sounds like skipping any and all gameplay, which then raises the question "what are you even speedrunning?" But yes, skipping straight to the ending has been disallowed for a very long time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 7/18/2016
Posts: 104
Location: United States
I was wondering what, specifically, the latest movie rules mean by "adding gameplay" when pertaining to the use of in-game codes.
In particular, I want to talk about things like "final boss" and "credits warp" codes, as while almost all instances would remove significant amounts of gameplay over their full-game TAS counterparts, they often times do bring some new gameplay to the table. Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:
I submitted a movie to the site about 7 years ago for the Kid Chameleon "plethora warp", which requires a specific combination of inputs at a specific place in the 2nd level to the warp to the final boss. This was rejected simply for using a debug/cheat code. Clearly however, in-game codes are now allowed, but does this qualify as adding gameplay? While the cheat cuts out much of the game from the current publication, 52% of the gameplay in the video itself is new, as all gameplay after collecting the Red Stealth helmet in the second level is different gameplay you would never see in a full-game TAS.
I found a 1-frame improvement since making that submission so here is the updated video:
Link to video
Additionally, there is the Vectorman "credits warp", which is a code you input at a specific spot in the 1st level to warp right to the credits. Again, technically 64% of the gameplay in the video itself (not including the title screen) is stuff not seen in the published TAS, although significantly more gameplay is removed than is added overall.
Link to video
So my main question is what exactly is meant by the movie rules when the in-game codes must "add gameplay"? If a particular code also removes gameplay, how much must be added to offset what as removed? Do the examples I listed even count as adding gameplay or is this just modified gameplay?
Joined: 4/17/2010
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We define gameplay as "an in-game task or puzzle that is meant to be accomplished or solved by a human while playing the game, by sending inputs to the game and getting its reaction".
If a code instantly moves you ahead in the game, it doesn't add any new task or puzzle beyond what was originally there. It quite obviously removes the task that was there - playing through the levels to get to that point normally.
It would have added gameplay if it unlocked a level or a character, or at the very least an item. While items are not in-game challenges, they were agreed to belong to unlockable gameplay, and maybe the definition above is a bit old now (it was added when we tried to decide whether there's any gameplay still left in #6466: Masterjun & ais523's NES Super Mario Bros. 3 "game end glitch" in 00:00.78). If it was an item that you could use to make shortcuts, it'd fit. But if the code is already the entirely of the shortcut, it's not allowed for Standard.
However it's fine for Alternative now if it's entertaining!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Would maxed out character stats be enough to be considered “added gameplay” for using a password/code?
Here’s a theoretical: the recent boxing game i TASed (NES World Champ) gives a password after beating the game that allows you to carry stats into a new play session (without any other type of save feature). Using that password starts the game in the final weight class (of four).
I know how modify the given password to allow for having the higher/maxed stats for the player’s boxer while still starting in the first of the four weight classes, effectively allowing for a complete playthrough of the game with a maxed out character. This would be similar but faster than a non-password based run due to the player character dealing more damage to earlier opponents.
I assumed such a movie that used the modified password be Alt only? But if it could be standard, I’ll make it.
EDIT: The game does have training modes where a player could max out their stats before fighting any ranked opponents, but it would take around 200 training sessions to max out the character.
Chip 'N Dale: Rescue Rangers (NES)
Is it allowed to kill characters using a special menu? You press Select (it shows up the status screen). There, pressing A+B at the same time shows an special option "Give up? No, Yes". If you select "Yes", you can select the character to kill. After that, it disappears, loses a life and respawns as usual.
Here is how speedrun utilizes this trick:
Link to video
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Interesting. In Alternative, we allow cheat codes as long as the goal is entertaining. In Standard, we only allow codes that add gameplay (like ones that unlock content). In this case, A+B is a suicide code, which doesn't add/unlock gameplay or content. So it doesn't seem to belong to the Standard class.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Please can the rules for non-Arcade MAME systems be clarified. CD-i was accepted despite being listed as Imperfect for both Graphics and Sound. It seems reasonable to allow anything listed as Working, but I don't know how exactly MAME classifies these things.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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I either forgot about that wording, or was sure MAME bumped CDi to OK, or both. I guess actual glitches are the only real issue, arcade or not. I tried to err on the safe side but reality once again bit us in the ass by ridiculing all our templates. Now I may either throw all our rules out of the window because they are all irrelevant, or gradually get rid of them to pretend some of them are still fine.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
KI Gold speedruns have 2 categories on speedrun.com , one that is very fast with cheats for faster speed and removing blocking as well (i really dislike the fact they remove blocking), and one which is cheatless in the fastest speed possible for cheatless( which would be the second best speed, behind only the cheated speed).
What would be acceptable in tasvideos?
Cheatless and cheatfull?
Cheat for speed only and not use the other cheats to make the game easier? There's a faster speed without cheat codes but it's not the fastest.
you need to use button codes to access these other options and it's a billion of them
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Only the run without using the cheat would be eligible for Standard class publication.
From the rules:
I believe the run using cheats may be acceptable for Alternative class, if it garnered enough entertainment value; but I’d need confirmation from other judges to be sure.
EDIT: If it’s the speed code I’m thinking of, I personally would enjoy watching it. I remember playing (horribly) using that code with friends.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Correct. Ideally such an Alt branch would do something else too to maximize entertainment, nut just the same stuff as the Standard branch but quicker.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 169
Location: San Francisco
I wanted to ask a question if the game hack, Grand Poo World 3, was accepted. I looked on the internet and SMW Central about the hack in November 2023, but it was rejected several days later because of minor bugs, although the ROM hack is playable. I made two WIP movies of this game: the first movie (User movie #638401726796647053) is an unimproved version of all exits, while the second movie (User movie #638442731540730749) started from scratch and made all exits and completed the hard mode of the game with improvements.
As I was thinking about starting an improvement, do I have to overwrite the movie from the load point in the middle of it?
This game didn't appear on the SMW hacks list, so I found one on the user's filebin of SMW Central. It belonged to Barbarian (or BarbarousKing), and I don't know if it was accepted when I submitted this movie. The first two Grand Poo World versions of the series appeared on the list.
Planned runs:
Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS)
Proposed:
Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze)
Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode)
Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions)
In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
It only exists as a userfile, and we don't know if it will persist. Is there any info on the progress of the hack? Is a new submission expected?
I don't understand the question.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 169
Location: San Francisco
The userfile of the hack (Grand Poo World 3) is what the creator submitted in full like it was released on November 17, 2023. Since this hack was rejected, I don't think there is progress, and I don't expect the hack to be released soon.
Planned runs:
Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS)
Proposed:
Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze)
Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode)
Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions)
In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Its current state is too unreliable. Might be a good idea to ask the author about the hack's future.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The RNG for bomberman GB rerolls every frame at the start menu at the very beginning, but not inbetween stages. The RNG is used for stage layout at the start of a stage.
This game has a password system for each stage. Would it be valid to say, beat stage 1-1, then restart the game and use passwords to get to stage 1-2, to manipulate a better layout? The image links would probably die but:
Main screen where RNG changes every frame:
Reset right before reaching here, then using password to get back here after waiting a bit at the main screen above for better RNG. There's 32 stages, so 32 restarts + passwords.
DrDk29 on discord asked for more context, so I will repeat it here:
When you get a gameover, you are shown an option to continue, along with a password:
This is the password for instance, that I will use to get to stage 2-2 after beating stage 2-1 and resetting. The run itself will never see this screen, since I won't die. But as a player myself, I can die outside of the run, see this password, then use it during the run.
While the password would technically have been “earned” by reaching a certain stage; because death/game over is required to show the password, the password would never actually be seen in the run. I don’t think this should be allowable.
If the password were seen (even if only for 1 frame), I’d say it would be a fair approach.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
The same exact situation was discussed earlier in this thread.
A password is an-game code, and we only allow in-game codes to do very specific things in Standard: it needs to add gameplay (unlockables). In Alternative, it needs to help with entertainment, tho it's not preemptively limited there. Whether or not the password has been displayed does not matter.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I've started work on a TAS using BizHawk Dolphin Core, but it is starting to look like it might not be able to sync on regular Dolphin. To be clear, the TAS syncs absolutely fine on the BizHawk build - just not on the corresponding official Dolphin build. Would this be acceptable to submit to the site?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
It used to sync for others, is it at least known why it fails in your case?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.