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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Ah ic, but I swear there was one part in a dungeon with a middle block that makes it such that if come up from the bottom then you have to go left or right, but he went to the top and I don't think he pushed it either. Was that a special case or something or maybe he did push it?
If you are talking about this:
then yeah, that's possible... but Link moves diagonally, which I said was possible. You can move fully onto the stone, go left, move fully onto the stone above, and move right, to pass the stone in the middle. Diagonal movement through blocks is possible. You can't pass a long horizontal or vertical line of blocks though.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Why can you only go halfway through a horizontal row? Take 1 block for example you can glitch from the bottom to the top of it right? Why does it matter if there's blocks left or right of it?
If you are standing right on the middle of a block, you can move to the left, right and bottom, but not to the top.
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themidnightbum wrote:
arflech wrote:
Also, the best version of snes9X is probably the TASVideos-modified "improvement 13" of v1.43, available at this site linked from the Emulator Resources page: http://www.bluetoaster.net/emu/rec.htm
that link seems to be broken
Site seems to be down currently, link ain't broken.
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arflech wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Picking a game that you know and like is probably a better choice.
within reason of course, like I wouldn't recommend cutting your teeth on Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask
He said he wanted something easy and 2D, to learn TASing. He never even mentioned that he wanted to make a TAS that will be published for this site... why is everyone suggesting specific games that haven't been published yet, or that they would like to see? It seemed to me that he just wanted to learn the basics to be able to post some movies on youtube...
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Picking a game that you know and like is probably a better choice. TASing on NES with FCEUX is easiest I'd say, but I'm probably biased.
There is a guide to get started at the FAQ: http://tasvideos.org/GenericTips.html
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
So is the first quest in the works now? And why isn't there a media file of that movie yet?
What input do you need exactly for the the trick to work. It seemed sometimes I saw you press perpendicular to the block for more than 1 frame and somtimes I think I even saw away from block. And do you have to press perpendicular exactly right before you touch the block?
Also why can't you use use this to warp up through a horizontal row of blocks?
jprofit22 explained the glitch questions pretty well.
As for a new first quest run... I've been discussing and looking at possible routes for some time, and plan on eventually making a new first quest run. I have some other TASing plans first though, and I'm not in a hurry. The quality of the current first quest run is very good, it just doesn't use the glitch to the fullest extent.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
I was wondering how the glitch works where you place a bomb and walk through a block. Does this require frame perfect precision, or is it possible in real time?
Placing a bomb is actually not needed at all. I discovered it while placing a bomb, and assumed it was needed, but it turned out it wasn't needed after all.
The glitch is done by, shortly before you reach the block, moving backwards a frame by pressing a sidewards direction to where link is moving. This will change the subpixel position in a way that the game skips the solid pixel when link reaches the block. It can move link half a tile into a solid block, which means that you can pass diagonal block formations, as link can stand halfway inside the block naturally anyway. It also turned out that this glitch could be used to move from one side of the screen to the other in the overworld. I'd strongly suggest you to watch the recent second quest TAS, which features all latest findings.
The glitch can't be done in real time, as it requirs frame precision.
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Derakon wrote:
I think your decisions on what does and doesn't count for 100% are controversial. In general for a 100% game I would err on the side of getting too many things than on the side of skipping things. So for example, I would say that a 100% run would have to get all of the heart containers, both bomb upgrades, the magic shield, the red potion, all three swords, the blue ring, etc. Basically, my rubric is that at the end of the game, every flag relating to a gettable item in the game that is not a rupee, bomb, or key should be set, and the player should be as powerful and well-equipped as is possible.
One could be as powerful as possible without the blue ring or the white sword.
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Here it is! The new initial star list made up by what has been posted in this thread sofar. Not that it is in any way final, and it won't ever be. Opinions are always needed, and changes can and will always be made. This list comes closest to what has been posted sofar.
Super Mario 64 "0 star"
Mario 64 beaten without collecting any stars. Very optimized run, and pretty much everyone agreed that it should have a star.
Gunstar Heroes "2 player"
By far the most popular Gens TAS for a star (not counting Sonic).
Super Mario World any%
While the ‘small-only’-run has quite a few novelties, and might need a star more than the any% run, the any% run had more support in the end. A new 96 exit run might very well take this star though.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
For many this run is an epitome of TASing… but it has been argued that the Sonic 2 run might be better suited for a star.
Sonic Advance 2
Nearly everyone agreed that beside either the Sonic 2 or Sonic 3 TAS, this one should get a star.
Super Metroid 100%
This seemed to be the most popular Metroid run by far.
Metroid Zero Mission 100%
This run was slightly more popular than the Metroid Fusion 100% run. There were some arguments against having two 100% Metroid runs in the list, but they seemed to be far more popular than the any% runs.
Mega Man 2
There was a very close competition between this and Mega Man 1. Since the discussion though, a new Mega Man 2 run has been published, which was very popular. For the time being, Mega Man 2 will get the star, maybe switching with Mega Man 1 some time in the future.
Rockman and Forte “100 CDs”
Very popular SNES run. It wasn’t very clear whether this run, or the any% was preferred more. The 100CD run was picked, with the argument that it shows more of the game. If the any% run is more up to date though, or other arguments for the any% version are welcome though.
The Legend of Zelda “Second Quest”
This was the most popular Zelda run at the moment. The second quest run was picked over the first quest, as the run is more up to date. A new full A Link to the Past run is in the making though, which will probably take this star.
Castlevania
Probably the most popular Castlevania run.
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
This might create some controversy, as there were many people in favour of this TAS, and some specifically against it. This TAS is audiovisually attractive, with some great planning, and a good pace, but doesn’t have the glitching of HoD. Some people argued that certainly for first time viewers, HoD was a lot more interesting. The more glitched run was however already chosen for Sonic 3 vs Sonic 2, and Metroid Zero Mission vs Metroid Fusion. CotM gets it for now, and changes can always be made later.
Ninja Five-0
This was going up against Bionic Commando and Umihara Kawase, which some people love, and some people hate. In the end, Ninja Five-0 was slightly more popular and has a newly published TAS.
Mega Man X + Mega Man X2
Pretty much everyone agreed this concept needs to be represented in the list, and this TAS shows the concept best.
Gradius
Popular classic TAS, which excels at showing how fast reflexes can make autoscrolling very entertaining.
Kings Bounty
Prime example of long game completed quick, and very popular.
Super Mario Bros 3 any%
Current fastest version of Morimoto’s legendary TAS, which everyone felt needed to be present.
Excitebike
Seemingly uninteresting game to TAS made extremely interesting by being able to reach faster than normal speeds. Easy to like, even for people who haven’t played the game.
Battle of Olympus
Popular NES run with high speeds.
Darkwing Duck
Nice fast paced game, with a character that moves to the music. There were a number of popular NES games, this one gets the star for now.
Gimmick!
Unorthodox movement mechanics provide something entertaining and different.
Biker Mice from Mars
A relatively unknown racing game taken far beyond normal speeds letting the camera bite dust.
Sparkster
Either this or Rocket Knight Adventures was voted to have a star. Sparkster was picked for now, with less autoscrollers, but changes can always be made.
Golden Axe
Popular TAS with some unorthodox strategies.
One note should be made, the N64 star category currently doesn't have its star assigned. Most popular was Majora's Mark, but lots and lots of new stuff has been discovered since the last run, and a new run will likely to end up with a star. It might be better if this star goes to another (N64?) run for now. Goldeneye is an option, or the All Quest OoT TAS, or something else? Some opinions are needed on this.
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Yes, there seems to be no market for regular speedruns on an emulator. I think this is pretty logical, since if speedruns get better and better, it is less and less probable that they were done without savestates and frame advance. If you were to do something really impressive (as in, something that might be interesting to watch), it is not possible to know whether it was done legitimally. So the better the speedrun, the more legit statements like "I don't believe this was done in realtime" are... which kinda defies the purpose.
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shozen1 wrote:
im thinking about making my own tool assisted replay for Adams family on the SNES. i am aware this has already been done :)
before i start i will need to know how you JUMP THROUGH THE WALL where alfred the butler is playing the piano, can someone tell me how to do this? cheers
This topic doesn't belong in the General section, but at the SNES games section (in which case it would be good to mention the title of the game in the topic).
I don't have an answer to your question... but I know for a fact that checking the input movie frame by frame, and figuring out on the basis of that how it works will give you insights that no answer by someone else could give you.
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Yeah, this should get going indeed.
What would be preferred... assigning stars on the current date, or posting a updated list, narrowing down choices?
(Some new movies might change things though, as for instance a Mega Man 2 movie was published, and Ninja Five-0)
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hanzou wrote:
FWIW to add to the discussion on how to finish the swordless movie (a debate which has gone on for years)...
I've come to believe this is the best way: zelda_swordless_ending.fcm
Simple and fast. Link doesn't go back and grab the wooden or magical sword, but he doesn't die. This "technique" was discovered long ago by Sleepz, and was used in Phil's April Fools' submissions where it is labeled as beating the game.
I don't know if it is any better than getting yourself killed. I'm still in favor of a magical sword only run.
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jprofit22 wrote:
with the screen scrolling glitch, can you also go west and east or does it only apply to north/south?
You can also go west and east. Once again, watch the second quest movie. You should have FCEUX to watch the fm2 file. Otherwise, you can always download the avi instead.
jprofit22 wrote:
about key pickups: i need 17 keys to complete the game or 12 keys to get the magical key.
Is picking up the magical key allowed in a minimalist run?
jprofit22 wrote:
-i need the arrows immediately for lvl 6 and the meat later for lvl 7 so this is obv why i go there after getting the ladder. i could get the arrows on the way to lvl 6, but im pretty sure this is the optimal route at least for these two items
I think getting the arrows on your way to level 6, and the meat in between level 8 and 2 is faster.
jprofit22 wrote:
-i need to spend more time planning my key pickups so i can decide whether or not to get the magical key. somehow im sure its much slower than just picking up 17 keys since most of these are directly on the path and its only 5 more keys if you dont get it
I'd also think it's slower... in the regular first quest run, all keys are right on your path, and not a single extra room has to be entered to get some key.
jprofit22 wrote:
-the rest of the route is pretty self explanatory. i dont think much will change with the end of this run unless somehow its faster to do the dungeons in a different order
There is a route change which I'm sure is faster. If after level 5, you whisle to level 3 instead, to do level 7 before level 4, then you can reset after level 7 to go to level 4. The reason this is faster is because you can't really whistle right after level 7. Whistling will cause the level to open up again, and not make Link warp. You would have to move down one screen in order to whistle. Changing the order of these last two levels will avoid this, since you can do a reset after level 7.
jprofit22 wrote:
-is there any way to out of room travel in dungeons? i havent seen anything about that and it would obv be of great service to someone who doesnt have a sword and would like to see the credits :)
No, it's not possible to do the screen glitch inside dungeons.
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Looks pretty good... I know it's not for submission, but I'll post a few possible improvements, as you might be interested:
- The boost (for instance at the start) sometimes caused Link to have to walk an extra half a tile. While it might still have saved time in some cases, I sometimes felt a little better manipulation would be possible.
- Probably by entering the room which has the first 30 rupee cave at a different frame, the long wait before the creature appears can be avoided. (Same for the "expensive!" shop later on.)
- The room you enter above the room at level 3 where you have to kill the red darknuts, the room where you got the key... I would suggest not to get this one, and get the one in the third room of the level instead. (No extra screen transitions are needed.)
- The darknuts in the room before the raftroom possibly could have been manipulated better... this seemed rather slow.
- Not getting the triforce with full health is NEVER good. It always costs more time than taking the damage saves.
- I think placing the bomb for the gamble house from the side is a frame or so faster than placing it from the bottom. With the randomness, it's unlikely that this makes a difference though.
- You can virtually instantly reenter the gamble house after leaving, by pressing right or left to make Link walk back upwards again (this should obviously be done before it causes Link to eventually walk leftwards). Also see the published TASes for reentering caves if you don't know what I mean (for instance level 3 is reentered in the published first quest TAS).
- Using the glitch for going through blocks, but not for the screen is a bit strange, but it's your movie, so I don't mind or anything :) Most people woudn't even know you went through a block in that dark room at level 4 :P
- The room right before getting the ladder looked VERY nice.
- You sure that getting the key from the room to the right in level 1 is faster than exiting and entering again?
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Either way, it looks pretty good, certainly for a run just showing a concept, which isn't really for a submission. I hope (and think) you will learn a great deal from this :)
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jprofit22 wrote:
when the rupee game resets every 4 frames is each instance a random event or is there a set pattern. its really pissing me off. ive tried to change my route multiple times to get the best pattern for the rupee game, but because i'd like to have at least 4 50's it becomes optimal sometimes to get the one on the left and sometimes even the right one. any input would be greatly appreciated.
Well... even though it's called luck manipulation, you still need a bit of luck with the frames you have to wait to get good randomness. Just make sure the part before the gamble cave is optimal, and then there is nothing else you can do. Even if you have to wait quite a few frames, getting the 50-rupee in the middle is usually faster, as getting it at a side takes quite some time.
Either way, feel free to post a wip if you want some feedback on it.
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jprofit22 wrote:
I am currently working on a swordless speedrun and will end the video when link and ganon are holding up the triforces. But i had a couple questions about luck manipulation in this game. I know things change depending on the frames like most other games with RNGs but how does killing enemies affect the manipulations? Are there specific rules to manipulating luck through killing enemies or is it random as well? Anyway, heres what i completed in my test run 2 nights ago. Hope you enjoy.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/983374041/ZeldaSwordless.fcm
There is a elaborate explanation of luck manipulation (both enemy movement, and enemy drops) in the submission text of the recent second quest run: http://tasvideos.org/2091S.html
Anyway, I'll check the wip.
Edit: Having watched the first 10 seconds of the run (even though it's only a test), I suggest to read that submission text even more. Zigzagging to the upper right and lower left saved time. Also, I see no reason whatsoever not to use the screen glitch.
Edit2: Well, it's obviously a test run. You did however use the glitch inside level 1. You used the old method though, check the new second quest TAS. I think using the glitch in the overworld might cause some route changes.
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Sir VG wrote:
I know that published movies are removed, but can we remove rejected/canceled submissions from there too? There's no point in them staying, IMO. It'll look cleaner.
It's looking very nice. Are you using subpixel RAMadresses to optimize the sliding? And a lag adress to minimize the lag? I think these are vital for getting the TAS to be absolutely perfect.
Also, you should consider using FCEUX. The fcm file you posted syncs just fine when it's converted to fm2.
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mega_man_3 wrote:
P.S. Are you still working on your MM5 speedrun?
Yes, I'm halfway redoing the Gravityman stage. I've been very busy the past few weeks, so I didn't work on it much, but I should have a bit more time for it the next few weeks. I'll post in the Mega Man 5 topic when I'm done with Gravityman.
then yeah, that's possible... but Link moves diagonally, which I said was possible. You can move fully onto the stone, go left, move fully onto the stone above, and move right, to pass the stone in the middle. Diagonal movement through blocks is possible. You can't pass a long horizontal or vertical line of blocks though.
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