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The word "translayer" is really catchy and I like it. Somewhat unfortunate to say it loud...
edit: just some research for the word in other software:
QEMU also defines this translationing as the core feature (for emulation purposes):
"QEMU is a [..] processor emulator using dynamic translation to achieve good emulation speed".
QEMU calls his dynamic translation backend as TCG --> Tiny Code Generator.
(linky for QEMU wiki)
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Above post: [3345] NES Urban Champion by klmz in 00:26.84 and [3404] NES Circus Charlie by TheRealThingy & Randil in 03:23.51
26.83 vs 3:23.51: it's more than 7 times longer. While in this situation the DK3 one would have been more than 10 minutes long, more than tripleing 8~9 times this published movie's run time.
Also this published movie wasn't aware of the DK3 ending point (albeit it's aiming for that goal).
I'm not a judge but I wouldn't accept the linked TAS. edit: Just because a TAS can be fit inside another TAS is not a chance for you to break rules (submitting "endless" games in "multi game" TASes without reaching the "no more content" point)
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Thanks feos. However I think it would also still fit on other sites aswell.
- Wiki: PlatformResources only refered from TasingGuide, 4780 page hits, compared to Wiki: GameResources 75731 page hits.
- Especially the Vboy one, these pages contains many game related informations, so I would see no problem in mentioning somewhere on Wiki: GameResources.
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Status update.
+ Already have 4 platforms covered all using BizHawk cores
+ They are mostly polished and covered well
Now the question: Where could these be located on the site to help new and experienced TASers to learn for specific cores?
My suggestions: pages of BizHawk/Core, like A7800 could be linked at least from Wiki: Bizhawk/Atari7800andhttp://tasvideos.org/Platforms.html#Atari7800
So I'm looking for feedback about this before editing those sacred pages.
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Just to make sure everyone is on the same track:
- My published Donkey Kong 3 movie only plays 3-4 stages but later it revealed there's 17 unique levels
Link to video
- This brings Donkey Kong 3 completion time much over the minute barrier, so I think it should be dropped from the objective, so only 3 games to complete.
I don't have any recommendations for a different 4th game, especially to stay in "theme" of Donkey Kongs.
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First of all thanks everyone for the fast and detailed answers!
Just to be sure, 2 more questions based on answers:
- CPU with highest single core speed. PCMasterRace mostly mentions AMD Ryzens for general and overclocking purposes. Intel also have the K ending ones with higher than usual overclocking purposes (for example the one feos mentiones above this post)
- SSD enough for OS and some tools (web browsers and tools for TASing). --> Can BizHawk gain performance increase from SSD (save states, trace logging to file, movie file saving, dumping files through Lua)?
- DDR4 or above with something 16GB or above. What should I aim for: transfer rate, data rate, bus clock...?
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I'm going to buy a new computer for the purpose of TASing.
- Windows 10 probably
- using TAStudio "heavily" (mostly moving mouse over the piano roll and using hotkeys for crud and others).
- I would want to open multiple instances of BizHawk (probably just 2)
- as many states as I could save
- cores I'm looking to have most time spent: NesHawk, bsnes, gbhawk, z80 based ones, some PCE and PSX, no N64 or AppleII or Wii or DS for example.
Question: what to buy for fastest workflow using bizhawk cores and tastudio?
I would also love to see answers elaborated like what kind of tests or details I should know. Let's say a maximum of 1500 USD but what matters mostly are the parts' features not the actual value of the product in whatever store.
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Are you sure about number of loops being the factor here? Currently on mobile but this TAS at 1:50 spider looks fast similar to that 8 loop one. What about other animals velocity or position ranges or spawn time?
Edit: the linked video starts with skill 2.
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0. Movie won't sync on latest BizHawk because of ZX core change Z80 accuracy improvements. Can't compare it to my WIP (not uploaded) but I think this movie is optimal.
1. Can anyone verify the difficulty won't increase? I see this at gamefaqs:
The scenes are still in the same order, but there are more of them.
On level X, you will have to repeat scenes 2-6 (X or 4, whichever is
less) times before you get to the next scene. If you die, you lose
credit for the number of times you've passed a scene.
The monsters, which appear for the first time on the second level,
also tend to go faster as you increase levels.
2. If this somehow goes to moon, I would really like to see the naked smurfette bug.
edit: 3. (16:51) <MESHUGGAHTAS> maybe should have added that not sure how much the smurf TAS stands out from a real time play. speedrun.com only has for the A2600 version
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edit: The rule linked for that section has the title "Rules for consoles" and the aforementioned line only appears at Commodore 64.
So I think you are right and the rule text should be changed? (as well my page)
Ah I see, I should have included your's line in my page as it refers to what images to use (cracked if non cracked not available) while I mistakenly took the "use disk instead of tape" line.
Will update it. (edit2: done, moved to bottom of the page.)
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- TASbot physical% - will be there any gameplay? I mean apart from pressing random buttons, will it draw...?
- Scribblenauts x Twitch chat: hell yes!
- mari0 1:12? Did Masterjun clipped through the wall and wait for 8-1 warp or he uses the RTA trick (go 32-1, suspend, start 8-4)? I mean it's low time but I've thought it will be lower.
- CV ok
- I would love to see setting up the OOB macros and then randomly trying between walls. Like trying to get whatever walls we see. Not the most updated but latest compilation of oob's: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/9cj0r6/major_discovery_in_the_legend_of_zelda_breath_of/
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"Physical interaction" - I included this as alone (cart swapping) as well as real life hazards (under TODO, currently kick console, cosmic ray, etc...). According to a recent post by feos (which was one of the main motivation for me creating this page), We do not allow events of the physical or hardware world to be used in TASes. Because these can't be emulated. .
Regarding this, I hope this will change. Somehow. Someway.
Components aged, failed: This is also something I believe we should take advantage of (and listed under todo). My most famous favourite malfunctioning is obviously Battletoads finishing the game by pressing the reset button.
Link to video
I don't want to go in details (as I'm more about collecting informations rather than solving it on other's behalf) but this is a case where someone played so much that the game cartridge got broken, making only him possible to do this because of sole posession.
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I've made a page listing of techniques not allowed/possible currently for submitting TAS. The goal is mostly "allow submitting movies that were done in real life". The page is subject to change as I'm gathering more examples and dimensions.
http://tasvideos.org/MESHUGGAH/ForbiddenTechniques.html
I would be happy to read feedbacks/discussion about these things. Probably this shouldn't be that thread (as the page consists of many different ones) but somewhere had to "highlight" this page.
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Possible speedrun paths of this game:
#0 - play the game from level 1 to end -> [3271] SNES Prince of Persia by Challenger & Odongdong in 33:31.20
#1 - without using any password, use [GAME END] glitch warping to stage 8 and finish the remaining 12~14 levels -> probably shaves off 10 minutes
#2 - Abusing a developer oversight: dying and checking the password when the text "press any button to continue" shown, the password generated will get you to level 20 with current time left, probably because it also will show level 0 when you are total dead.
That's why we can commit suicide, wait for text, press the menu button, you input password, go to boss, save bitch -> something 3 minutes overall long
#3 - we can commit suicide even faster by mintlody's miracle trick: game end 3 times with an instant 41 level reset and continue as input password, go boss, save bitch -> 1:41
So back to your question feos:
"Is it possible to avoid using the password?": Yes for the routes #0 and #1. With current knowledge, only level 8 is the highest stage to be manipulated. mintlody manipulated level 41 but it's still the first level, so it isn't progressed further.
"Why is the password required again?": To abuse the developer oversight, we can get the password to the nearly very final level of the game. Note that this isn't a "hidden cheat" or secret, I'm fairly certain about being a bug.
- using a password which is generated on the fly allows us to skip a large portion of the game.
- there are multiple password (password consists level and time left at least, many combinations) also doing these corruption glitches won't yield the exactly same password.
- the password system is a bit different between JPN and USA/EU because of different characters
The only thing I didn't mentioned in part of calculating possible end game time is the possibility of adding the cheat glitch probably found by xxNKxx, so we can kill boss faster (if applicable)
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Feos: No, with current knowledge.
Mintlody warped to level 41 and it was still the first level.
As already mentioned, the game has a bug unrelated to this that shows the level 20 password when you died and check the password in the menu when it says press a button to continue.
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I'm going to edit the previous post as it's deals with mintlody miracle instant warp and translation request, while this post is my understanding of the warping.
- The 1st game end warp can be done anytime, no need to use different action, different times, Y glitch etc. It's good as it is. Didn't checked cheat glitch possbility here.
- The 2nd game end warp can be done ONLY after a specific number of non lag frames (framecount - lagframes). HOWEVER if you don't want the state we would otherwise need before 3rd game end warp, you are free to jump very early which 95% results in softlock or not activating any glitch and just retrning you to the intro (mintlody doesn't mentions this thing but it's an always happening thing when you successfully activated the glitch)
- The 3rd game end warp is very similar to the 2nd game end warping but here we have nealy 6 possible outcomes.
Outcomes I manipulated:
- stage 7
- stage 8
- training 1
- main menu freeze
- 0hp glitch
But mintlody fucking instantly respawns at level 41 with 90 minutes remaining.
Please SNES gods spare me.
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TL;DR: Need translation because unable to replicate a glitch.
I'm unable to replicate a glitch and I'm confused because either mintlody had pure luck (~1600 rerecords!) or he was able to understand the problem and wrote down it in japanese.
I've bolded the part of the route where I have only softlocks or warps to stage 7, training and NOT respawning on the level.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after running jump while bumping the wall (can lead to crash under some specific circumstances)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after maybe ducking and jump down? (sprites already garbled)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after "heavy corruption" (you look like a soldier and sometimes a skeleton), jump down
- He straight ahead respawns and probably press menu right before dying because of 0 health bug
- He checks the menu and it says level 41 95:49 and password can be seen
- He inputs the shown password to warp to level 20
- Somewhere near the end of the movie it says 36 minutes left from time and as far as I see the Prince saved the Princess
Here is the video again what Patashu linked in already: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29365530
Here is the images from the 0:26, 0:36, 0:46 scenes:
https://imgur.com/a/tSxKnpM
I'm having trouble in replicating the events even thought I've literally remade it frame by frame so I hope there would be a text I couldn't translate using google translate on android that will solve my problem.
Fragments of translation as I understood the mechanics and mintlody's description:
- warping depends on color and behaviour (note: my assumption is that it depends on frame counter and our sprites ID right after game end)
- he wrote he just go die and respawns instantly. When I would do this, all I get is softlock if I don't do it faster than him. Adding any delays I 100% get softlock, no matter how or what I press, I get forever lag frames.
Also extra note that I don't think mintlody mentions: after doing the 2nd wrong warp, I always get back to the intro (similar as USA warp), and it seems to be an always happening thing.
edit: my latest theory of fastest TAS:
- warping to a level 0 or above 20
- get password
- input password
- kill boss
- save bitch
I'm unsure about the possibility to get the kill cheat glitch after getting the password to instakill the boss.
edit: my latest fastest WIP http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49524221069320476 (different movements than mintlody to remove lag frames) with the first point where I could be able to progress but still don't get warped to level 41 (or forever softlocks if we remove any frame without changing action).
edit2: my latest WIP with more lag frames removed, still unable to replicate mintlody's TAS. The uploaded ones are not the frame-by-frame traslated ones (because know I think it doesn't even matter to replicate each frame input one by one because only the final action and total no lag frame count counts):
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49547517303331911 - no corruption with mintlody's jump up
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49547545543096629 - corruption with jumping forward
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1. The japan TAS warps to level 41 after 3rd game end and brings the menu to avoid 0 health.
2. He checks thw paasword the game provides, game end, inputs this paasword
3. Chances are high that the kill cheat glitch is activated before inputting this legit paasword
Athis means that rhis aubmission contains many unrequired parts for doing the same route.
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The thread where our discussion was moved has a post showing a much faster, 1:41 TAS. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=440092#440092
As I see it's a totally legit TAS and completes it nearly 30 minutes faster than this TAS.
Edit: it uses japan version. Currently getting softloxks at 2nd game end, before heavy corruption scene.
Some basic route based on video encode:
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after running jump while bumping the wall (can lead to crash under some specific circumstances)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after maybe ducking and jump down? (sprites already garbled)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after "heavy corruption" (you look like a soldier and sometimes a skeleton), jump down
- He straight ahead respawns and probably press menu right before dying because of 0 health bug
- He checks the menu and it says level 41 95:49 and password can be seen
- He inputs the shown password to warp to level 20
- Somewhere near the end of the movie it says 36 minutes left from time and as far as I see the Prince saved the Princess
I think it's safe to say there's no reason behind not rejecting this movie for being suboptimal. On the otherhand it's good to know we can use the cheat kill, theoritically improve upon the japanese TAS.
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