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Remember what Chapter 3 is about again.
(hint: talk battle battle battle battle walk battle battle walk battle battle walk battle win)
(hint 2: battles are easy when you have strategies)
(hint 3: we had strategies)
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So we talked with Almo, the guy who holds the unassisted speedrun WR on this game, about the strategies in Japanese TTYD.
let's say you get mega rush before chapter 2 and waste time
soonest you can get it would be after chapter 1
1. you have to put yourself in peril for magnus 1.0 = slower
2. you don't use peril for any minor league fights, useless to be in peril afterwards
3. with this route, you will level up on grubba, which means re-routing so you don't use as many fright masks = slower (unless you were still in peril but the offset from getting into peril in ch2 would make it about the same speed)
then you literally use mega rush for doopliss 1, doopliss 2, and smorg
that is it.
and smorg you have to get into peril during the fight because you rest
so not only will you not regain FP after each chapter
and make things like after hooktail you have 1FP, you have to find a honey syrup or something and use that or some heal block for the fights in chapter 2, or w/e
it would only MAYBE be a bit faster if you didn't set up danger mario which will take like 2 minutes in TAS over not setting it up (taking into account chet rippo and parlor)
but you pretty much save that time in the boss fights from not worrying about regaining health from levels
that's why JP used mega rush P strats for it's any% run
it just doesn't work as nicely as people think
plus, do we even know if it is faster? no one has done a Japanese run since konkuu over a year ago
not healing post-chapter is great for HP and mega rush strats, but it's bad for FP
just think about this
after chapter 2 if you didn't heal after magnus 1.0
on that fight you use 9 of your 15FP
on English, you go back up to 15, on JP you would have 9
so
on English, power shell on goombas and dead bones = 6FP = 9, then you have the 8 you need for armored harriers
on JP, you'd have to take a 10 second loss in the bed or use a honey syrup
it just doesn't work that well
So, a major problem in the Japanese version of this game is that we not only not regain HP after a chapter, we also don't get full FP, which is important. We also sometimes level up which means that we get healed completely which then also heals HP.
The thing is that we don't know exactly what is faster because there are so many things we have to consider when changing the route.
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Hey, it's not EVERY battle that you get the HP to 1, that wouldn't be as fast. Actually I think there aren't really many battles where we use that. We basically follow the unassisted route only without all the safe strategies.
Also, this game is also not only about battles.
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Yeah but I personally like to make like 16 damage with only one attack, so you can't say that it is really unentertaining for everyone.
Also, we are already following the plan for these strategies so if we really wanted a run without them then we had to redo a lot of stuff, which we won't do.
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EEssentia wrote:
I just hope it's not another of those "abuse peril" sort of runs where the runner just puts Mario at 1 hp and puts on badges that increase his attack while in peril. They are just two turns massive damage, over. No fun :(
Well it's the fastest method so it's obviously in this TAS.
On another note, Malleo is currently recording Chapter 2 and the video should be up soon (Chapter 2 is sooo laggy, good thing I don't make the encodes :D).
Also there is this graphical Puni glitch that Malleo didn't manage to remove, so be prepared to see glitched graphics (not too bad though).
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Masterjun wrote:
then go ahead and take a look at the Dolphin forum for more information and help.
Since there the first thread is marked Sticky: and the title contains Important information for tasing, I would guess that someone who wants to TAS would go there.
Then he suddenly looks at the first two sentences of the first post and he reads:
Please use builds from http://dolphin-emu.org/download/ . The latest master version should generally be the best to use for tasing in most cases.
Then he goes on reading the post and he realized that there are a lot of Important information for tasing with dolphin!
Also, there is this Tasing Guide which could help for general TASing.
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On this wikipedia page you should find every emulator for each console or handheld.
If you want to TAS games then you should look at the Emulator Resources page. In your case it would be Dolphin, so then go ahead and take a look at the Dolphin forum for more information and help.
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Alfredo wrote:
Ah man that sucks. I figured there might have been an easier way. I've been doing that up to now but it will take forever once I get towards the end of longer games, even at the 10x speed.
Better read the part again that says
You can use existing savestates (in read-only mode) to reach the point sooner.
I can't help with the audio problem, sorry. Maybe someone else can help you.
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Resuming recording of a movie
To resume recording of a movie, play it back until it reaches the point where you want to resume recording. Then make a savestate, turn off read-only (default is usually Shift+8 but can be configured), and load the savestate. You can use existing savestates (in read-only mode) to reach the point sooner.
Some emulators have an option such as "Resume recording from now" or such.
Also, you should maybe consider posting such stuff in the Newbie Corner :)
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MagikPro wrote:
So, X&Y are out, can anyone test if the RNG is the same?
There are no 3DS emulators.
There are no tools for 3DS consoles to do a savestate.
There are no cheat tools for 3DS.
Also, this here: DO NOT ASK ABOUT XY RNG ABUSE
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Bond697 wrote:
indeed, 1 sample for the whole movie. you'd probably have to make it yourself in a hex editor and provide it to desmume as a.raw file.
as for the seed, that's true about those few numbers, but there are others. let's see if we can extend this all the way. we'll start with battle seeding since everything is initialized.
[...]
so as you can see, the max possibilities for a seed for a battle are pretty large.
65536 * 0x2400 * 263 * 65536 * 38880000 * 256 * 1048576 * 4294967296 is the max there. (*wifi is assumed off, so we won't count this) to change up the tick system and vframe count, just change 38880000 and 4294967296. still a lot, though.
A bunch of these variables you can't actually control without losing more time than it actually saves.
You can change input and microphone the frame it happens so that's more reasonable and also I didn't say that 268435456 different possibilities are the maximum, they are just the easiest to manipulate.
Bond697 wrote:
indeed, 1 sample for the whole movie. you'd probably have to make it yourself in a hex editor and provide it to desmume as a.raw file.
That would mean that you had the same sampling data for every battle! That's very pointless for a TAS because that gives you only 2 out of the 65536 possible states (0 and the one in the file).
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I thought there are 65536 different values for sample data that gives you 65536 different possibilities for seeds.
And since the seed also depends on the input (which there are 4096 states of) you have to multiply them together. So 65536 * 4096 = 268435456.
edit:
Responding to your picture:
Masterjun wrote:
I think even if it would be working, you could only use one sample for the whole movie (since in the movie file there is just stored if you pressed the hotkey for microphone enable).
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Well I know that microphone is working, but I don't know if it's working right.
Bond697 wrote:
the newer versions of desmume have a setting that lets you use a generic mic sample provided by desmume. you could get away with that, i'm sure.
To really manipulate in a TAS you would have to enter the 2 bytes of sampling data yourself.
Combining this with the 4096 possible input states, you get 268435456 different possibilities for a seed (not necessarily different seeds, but since it's hashing, probably only a few under 268435456 if not exactly that).
Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere :)
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Wow, that's a huge disappointment that desmumes mic is not working right :(
I think even if it would be working, you could only use one sample for the whole movie (since in the movie file there is just stored if you pressed the hotkey for microphone enable).
So to make desmume really TAS-friendly you would have to edit the source code.
A question I also had was how big is sampling data per frame, so, how many different values can it contain?
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Bond697 wrote:
Masterjun wrote:
Bond697 wrote:
-microphone sampling data result
-address in ram of the last microphone sampling data
Wait so does microphone actually change the result of the seeding?
Because from my testing the seed didn't change (or the microphone thing in desmume doesn't work, I don't know, I tried random whitenoise).
it does for battles. it's not initialized for when the main game seeds. not all of those things are in effect when the main game seeds which is why it's possible to rng.
well, at least for b2w2 I can confirm that the start seed for a battle is as it is described here. Now I wonder where the microphone is coming in...
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Bond697 wrote:
-microphone sampling data result
-address in ram of the last microphone sampling data
Wait so does microphone actually change the result of the seeding?
Because from my testing the seed didn't change (or the microphone thing in desmume doesn't work, I don't know, I tried random whitenoise).
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So this is basically turning into the discussion of this thread.
Let me try to summarize:
as Bond697 is saying, the input file is useless for figuring out RNG
there are a lot of information about this RNG on the internet and they are somewhat easy to find
Thus there is no problem in submitting a TAS of a Pokemon game after D/P (not including X and Y because of obvious reasons).
I don't know how any other discussion would fit into this thread, really...
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Zowayix wrote:
it's just somewhat disheartening to realize that if Game Freak doesn't change how their in-battle RNGs work (and they have no reason to), then it will basically be impossible to, in good conscience, ever submit a TAS of a Pokemon game post-Platinum here (since doing so would essentially allow any players of that game to cheat others on Wi-Fi almost undetectably).
I have a question, why would submitting an input file to TASVideos suddenly allow anyone on earth to manipulate RNG in online battles?
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jlun2 wrote:
btw, has Masterjun had any progress with the RNG?
Dolphin isn't really friendly when it comes to debugging stuff. I need to write into the code (or search for it if it already exists), that it can tracelog the entire frame (edit: lol I'm not going to log 15 million lines so I need another idea...), so I can actually start from some value that changes randomly (xpos of the Fireflower when it comes out of the box), then searching how the value was changed (xspeed of it) and then what affects it and how it is seeded or created at the start by using RNG (maybe it's just RNG%2, maybe it's a lot more complicated).
The really big thing I look forward to is finding the actual RAM address of the RNG, I don't even have that!
hegyak wrote:
Those graphical bugs, :(
I think Malleo did something wrong with the dumping or encoding because my encode had no graphical bugs. So hopefully the next videos don't have these :).
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