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Probably more important is how making a reasonable separation from this run and the previous game end glitch is impossible.
This exploit having anything to do with the DPCM bug was an assumption. There is no way to say which subroutines in the code were made to avoid the hardware bug.
It's fine to theorize how "lumping" all these kinds of runs together would create difficult situations, but it should be mentioned that it's simply impossible.
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There is the game page http://tasvideos.org/Game/nes-super-mario-bros-3.html showing information about the game, and also all current publications and more.
Alternatively, on any of SMB3 publication pages, click the "History of this entry" tab. There, every line starting with "Added" indicates a separate branch. The level of indentation shows order of obsoletion (in case of one movie obsoleting multiple others).
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If you look at the obsoletion chain of Morimoto's original SMB3 run you see that it currently has been "reduced" to a certain other incredible movie. Even the publication description talks about it.
As a sidenote, 4 of the 5 levels in the obsoleted "game end glitch" run are almost a copy of the "warps" run, and the last level wasn't completed. 20 seconds of "content" or "gameplay" has been lost.
As someone who is co-author of a lot of these short game end glitch runs, and also as a judge, I want to mention how much potential there still is in entertaining TASes.
As a TASer, I try to cover as many different ideas as I can. From fast-paced superhuman runs to fast-paced micro-optimization runs to completely new ideas to quadrupling gameplay. There are some speed-oriented ideas which aren't entertaining enough, and some entertainment ideas which can't be submitted here.
A collection of TASes which pleases everyone is impossible. For runs that aim to spend less and less time inside the game, being disappointed is to be expected. But to call the situation a disgrace might be going too far.
There are amazing TASes waiting to be made. There are amazing TASes waiting to be watched. Just find them.
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CrazyTerabyte wrote:
MUGG wrote:
For my love2d project I need a function that checks if a bit is set in a hex number. It needs to be a pure Lua implementation (Lua 5.1). The lua documentation wasn't much help so far. (...)
For reference, Lua 5.1 doesn't have bitwise operators (they were implemented in Lua 5.3). So the two functions MUGG posted are the workaround for that. At the end it's the same solution.
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I played back the movie but it seems to be missing a final input or something. It beats the final boss and then gets to the final dialogue in the throne room. There it ends input after answering a question, while there is still some dialogue to go through.
Unlike the submitted movie file, your encode includes the full credits, so did you maybe upload the wrong file?
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From what I understand in your explanation, setup 1 misses the Hall of Fame screen, setup 2 misses the credits, and setup 3 has everything.
We can say for sure that setup 2 is unlikely to be accepted. It simply doesn't finish the end sequence. (From your explanation it also seems like the viewer couldn't tell it was completed.)
We can also say that setup 3 is likely to be accepted, since it's the most complete ending.
Setup 1 is probably a bit more difficult. You said "the game is technically not beaten", by which I assume you meant it skips the Hallf of Fame and the save. Yet it does play the credits sequence all the way.
If it's reasonable and not too difficult, I think your best chance would be to submit setup 1 but have a movie file with setup 3 ready in case the viewer dislike the missing components of the end. If you simply want to be safe, you can choose setup 3.
In my personal opinion, having made several game end glitch runs myself: If you already have a lot of control over the end, you might as well spend those few seconds making sure it's as complete as possible.
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For the goals to not overlap with the game end glitch, there needs to be some kind of restriction on this run. The game end glitch is made possible by opening a dialog you can advance, then dying by pressing R, then save+quit. By quitting, it switches to "load menu" mode which we then can advance to other modes.
I thought the least arbitrary and most straightforward restriction for this run would be to simply not allow save+quit.
Of course, choosing a restriction depends on what you think is the cause of the game end glitch in the first place. Is is because the save+quit menu allows advancing modes? Is it because triggering a dialog and dying allows you to save+quit in a text sequence?
A less restricting restriction would be: don't allow save+quit while a sequence is playing that allows you to advance modes. This would allow the Gravitron skip in this run. It would also allow potential other save+quit glitches which might end the game sooner and maybe in a similar way as the game end glitch.
In summary, it seemed to me that the save+quit feature is prone to introducing glitches that don't fit into this branch and instead are covered by game end glitch runs. That's why I chose to not allow it at all.
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Habreno wrote:
at this point we aren't playing a specific game, we're effectively playing the console itself as our game.
Nope. The game itself is poorly programmed. It doesn't matter if the DPCM bug even happens or if it even exists in the first place. This run would also work on a theoretical NES 2 with the bug fixed.
The only reason the DPCM bug is even mentioned is because it is very likely the reason for the game to be programmed that way (however we can never be certain without asking the developers themselves).
dwangoAC wrote:
I cannot test console verification of this movie until someone comes up with a way to extract the raw button presses on a per-poll basis from SubNESHawk. [...] All of us struggle with it because the file on its own doesn't contain any information on various things that need to be known to attempt a console verification attempt
Nobody asked me! I sent you the file.
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Upload your input files to your userfiles!
You can either upload your input file directly, or you can compress it (for example in a .zip file). A short list of formats is given on the userfiles page.
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jlun2 wrote:
How many games out of the NES library have the DPCM bug?
Every game on a NES console has the DPCM bug.
Not all games implement a DPCM bug workaround.
And even less games have a DPCM bug workaround that can be exploited.
And in most of the cases where you can exploit from the first frame of input, you're just going to end up with a crash you can't manipulate.
The principle applied here is not a rare way to trigger the credits, but a rare way to trigger a crash.
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The only Lua version where both the # operator and the table.getn function exist is 5.1. They both do the same thing.
In future versions, only the # operator can be used (because the table.getn function is deprecated and was only left in for compatibility).
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The first roll generates a value 0-7 and will accept and deal on any value other than the previous piece dealt or the dummy value of 7. The piece history is initially empty. If the first roll fails, it progresses to a second roll that generates a value 0-6 and deals that piece.
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Just running right makes you just reach bowser at the time this movie finishes. Going around the fire and hammers to end input early like in this movie seems to end up about the same timewise.
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Because we're landing on the Hammer Bro!
(The previous right-movement turns into upwards-movement making it impossible to land soon enough to jump before reaching him)
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In fact, we even have %%SRC_EMBED with %%END_EMBED to avoid accidental wiki markup code to be processed.
It requires specifying a programming language after the SRC_EMBED, but entering a non-existent language such as a seems to work.
I think this should be used instead of the preformatted text.
There seems to be something wrong with SRC_EMBED.
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Read the Submission Instructions.
In particular, make sure you understand what our site is about, and how our Movie Rules and Guidelines apply.
For example, if you just want to share your movie in the game thread, upload your movie to the userfiles.
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I went ahead and trusted the authors' intuition on what is allowed and accepted this run. If future problems happen to come up, it's simple enough to make a new (possibly slower) run and obsolete previous runs.
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I mean, it's right there in the submission text. If even the senior judge doesn't read properly If I'm the only one who might see a problem here, then I'm probably caring about this too much. But not anymore! Who cares!
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EZGames69 wrote:
it's because we dont even know which enemies you're talking about.
EZGames69, reread what the point of my initial reply is.
Then, if your answer depends on which enemies I'm talking about, then you didn't understand my point.
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aiqiyou wrote:
I think this is reasonable because there is no reason to reject the skills used in an accepted submission.
Past mistakes don't justify future ones. It's in the Judge Guidelines. I asked this precisely because there were no discussions about this yet.
In fact, despite the replies, there is still not a single opinion about this.
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