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moozooh wrote:
o_0
Since when does a large fanbase mean higher potential for making movies, etc.?
Given the response my comments have had in this topic I feel I should say no more in this thread.
However, if the game were not famous and well known by many, would anyone sit through 4 hours of FF6 or Chrono Trigger, or even 2.5 hours of OoT? They wouldn't, nor would anyone bother to make the movie. Size of fanbase can be a considerable incentive in making movies.
In closing I voted YES because :-
1) I personally enjoyed the movie and thought it well optimised.
My judgement was in no way influenced by :-
1) The popularity of the game.
2) Repetitiveness of other published runs.
I merely presented these as facts that surround the submission and not as justification for the movie to be published.
I voted YES for all the right reasons.
I respect the reasons of those who voted NO and MEH, I even considered them and appreciated them. Please accept my own.
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I haven't played either of the games.
I haven't played tetrisphere and its repetitveness bored me and I didn't understand it.
I haven't played SSB but I did understand it and its repetitiveness didn't bother me.
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I'd hate to think that this game is unsuited to TASing. It has such a large fanbase and so it has the potential to have many movies made of it.
I've seen repetitiveness in so many runs; last night, for example, I watched Fist of the North Star by Ziplock only to really see 00:07:47 of pogoing with an occassional attack and I remember Tetrisphere was 7 minutes of confusion on my part. That was not in the good way either, it was repetitve spinning and whatever else and having not played the game I couldn't get into it. What sets this apart from regular repetitiveness is that many have played this game and can appreciate what is going on.
And I'm not arguing that the fact that there is repetitveness in other runs is a reason to publish this, I'm saying that the repetitiveness of this run should not stand in its way. I'm sure that many will enjoy this run.
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Ok, Majora's Mask is being an asshole again. I'm just going to watch this now.
EDIT --
I've watched it. I enjoyed it. Yes, one could argue that it is repetitive, but I've seen many published runs that you could say these same things about. It was well optimised, but perhaps the polygon stage could have been a bit better? (having never played this I don't really know, it just seemed that you killed the first polygon before he was even on screen but this trend was not continued).
I think this merits publication. As you know I'm big on seeing new N64 TASes and this is definitely good enough (also N64 runs are coming up on the workbench frequently now, which is great). I can also see that there are loads of ways to play this game so I hope to see many obsoletions of this run in the months to come.
Voting Yes.
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Yes, I've been thinking along the same lines as comicalflop.
Many tricks pages don't have that much in them (Umihara Kawase, Chrono Trigger to name but a few) and an SM64 would easily have more content than this.
I'm sure that because the runs are so popular and the game is so popular it is a page that many would take an interest in.
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This redo is taking a lot longer than I thought it would. I hoped to have it up today, but I keep getting desyncs. I got 5 whilst trying to get the stray fairy and after I passed that I am now toiling with another one at the bank.
I'll try and get it up soon. I expect to save about 3 seconds over my last time, however, this one looks clearly sloppier due to the period where speed doesn't matter (I played at normal speed because I was pissed off). All text is still skipped optimally of course.
The point of the matter is that I won't again redo half the movie for the sake of 3 seconds. In future I'll make the WIPs more frequent so that if anything needs redone then I won't need to spend so much time over it.
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I am surprised that there is not a SM64 section in the game resources section of the FAQ. There are plenty of tricks and glitches in this game.
Is anyone planning on adding this?
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This will be amazing if Guano doesn't throw it out. Sub 01:55:00 would be phenomenal.
Please don't chuck it. Desyncs are annoying, we all know that, but it is worth it (in my opinion) for the finished product.
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Welcome to the forums Crimsonpride!
Now I'm no expert, perhaps someone could clarify this. How similar are Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls and Final Fantasy for the NES.
I always thought that it was a straight port, but I'm no expert. In which case you should download the NES version and the .fcm file and try and obsolete it.
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Thanks Petrie.
1) It depends on what you mean...I can't start the game and do the stumps in a single backwalk...but I doubt you mean that. I think that you are refering to how Link sways slightly to each side before backwalking. This is what happens if you hold Z and \/99 on the same frame. Originally, i thought that this would be slower when in fact it is faster by a few frames than waiting for Link to properly align himself.
2) I've heard this flying around too, but somone needs to clarify before I get there again. I don't see how it could be skipped (can you skip the loading point in deku form?). I think mwl already had something to say on the matter.
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It's probably just because it is such a long movie and the encoders are probably sick tired of N64 movies anyway after FODA's run.
I submitted this about three weeks ago and it's had a good response so I'd like to think that judgement is just around the corner.
I'm quite nervous about the judgement actually; the response has been quite mixed in places...it all depends on the judge now I guess...
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I'll get a chance to redo tomorrow. To save myself time I will just play normally after the scarecrow dance until entering the clock tower because time doesn't matter.
Does anyone have any strong emotions against me doing this? Would you like to see it optimised nonetheless?
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I agree with AKA. I tested and it is slower. You can make it but to do so you have to spin from rest which is slower.
I also remember us having a discussion earlier about most optimal form of movement and sidehops were said to be faster up slopes. I also use sidehops in situations where a spin would take me too far i.e after leaving the stockpot inn after rupees.
Like I said the movie has been done entirely with frame advance and so all spins and backwalks are highly optimised, plus I have experimented with different combinations of degrees to get the best results.
Also, I am happy to redo the entire movie from the stock pot inn to fix that problem because:
1) The movie has to be great (I don't want to spend months working on it for someone to obsolete it five mnutes after submission).
2) It only needs to be fully optimised until the scarecrow dance anyway.
In the current WIP I tried to optimise where I didn't need to (e.g. after the scarecrow) I won't do this when I redo. I'll just deku spin or something.
I have faced 10 desyncs until now and upon redoing i'll probably face 10 more so if I stay simple in those areas this shouldn't take me another two weeks to fix.
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In regards to the backflip over the counter; do I do this in both instances (i.e. when first entering the Stock Pot in and then after Grandma's story) or only after Grandma's story. I ask because it will be clearly faster after the story since I am using the ground floor door but I'm still unsure about the first.
EDIT -- I recorded a movie from a savestate of this area doing this and it did in fact turn out slower by about 30 frames, it wasn't as intensely TASed (about 105 rerecords to a 40 second movie). I went over the counter on both occasions which is probably why. I really only think it will be faster the second time.
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spockybiemmichab wrote:
But sometimes I wonder why you do the A-move and sometimes the backwalking?
Ah, I'll fill that one, I forgot to mention.
When you enter a new area in Clock Town for the first time there is a small movie showing you around it quickly. After this movie the game does not allow you to immeadiately use Z targeting for some reason but does allow a Deku spin. In these cases it is more optimal to use one and then backwalk to the destination, I hope that clears everything up.
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mwl wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather see a movie as close to perfect right now as possible, even if the revisions delay its completion...However, it's your choice. I can understand if you want to move on.
Before I make the decision I'll wait for Petrie and pyh to see what they think. Also, I'll PM Maximus about his TAS editor to find out if when it is made Mupen compatible I could separately record the Stock Pot Inn sequence and graft it in.
But you're right, unless there is a collosal breakthrough in Mupen development that makes it not shit i'll probably be the first and last person to do this so it should be as perfect as possible.
Also, it should be noted that I'll be going to university (hopefully) in september at which time all my computational activities move onto a laptop which can not handle this game. What I'm getting at is that this run can't turn into a FODA-like year long TAS or it won't get finished. I'm confident I can get this done long before then as I am spending 2-3 hours + per day on it, but we need to know what we are doing.
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No, I haven't changed anything. I tried to stay as simple as possible by just using the default plugins with the exception of the TAS input plugin which I used for more precise movement. I've been using the same plugins all along.
I'm afraid that it will either work or it won't, that is the nature of the beast (the beast being the most tempermental emulator combined with the most tempermental game).
bkDJ// I had my worst desyncs there and thereabouts so it doesn't surprise me that it fucks up. I don't really know what can be done... I'll encode an AVI if you're still having problems.
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Yautja --
1)That does sound feasible, I've never seen it done though. I just never thought to try it and since I'm coming down the stairs and so I'm unsure how much time would be saved by that.
2) After watching AKA's WIP I never noticed there not being a navi text and so nor did I notice it appearing in mine, it must have just slipped through the net. I'll redo if it makes that much of a difference, however, I am now in Clock Town after getting the deku mask so it might be a long way back to go and more desyncs for a second or so of improvements.
3) I tried that...but for a different reason. I thought if I could get closer to Skull Kid I would be closer to the Ocarina but the game resets Link's position after the cutscene so I dismissed it and must have not thought to do any more.
AKA --
As regards to the three rupees for the upgrade I keep hearing conflicting arguements from you and mwl and do not know whose ideas to go by. I've been going by mwl because his is closest to the route I got from petrie which keeps things simple for me. What is the plan for these rupees?
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WIP 2
Here's the new WIP, which takes us up until the end of the first cycle.
I'm confident that it is very highly optimised and well executed, however, there will be a few frames lost through desync in some areas which aren't visible but if you were to try and obsolete it you would.
Anyways, i think that this is a good start. It is very different from AKA's run and is also faster due to route revision (roughly 27 seconds last time I checked).
So watch it and hopefully bkDJ can encode a good AVI. I can provide a savestate but it will probably desync so it is more reliable just to watch it from the start. Remember and give feedback :)
