[...]
1: Skipping Ganon isn't entertaining, and thus shouldn't obsolete a more entertaining run.
[...]
That's an interesting point, because in my opinion the new route is way more entertaining than fighting ganon and the extremely boring castle escape. What's so interesting in killing ganon? Isn't Dodongo's Cavern and a huge WTF-ending a lot more entertaining than crouch-stabbing ganondorf to death and running down stairs for two minutes afterwards?
Plus it's faster, so in my opinion it should clearly obsolete the old run
Just wanted to say that I'd definitely love to see a TAS of this game.
Unfortunately I probably don't have enough knowledge to be helpful TASing Terranigma, but I'm following this thread quite some time now and I'm always happy when there is some new progress / discovery / post.
I would be very glad if there will be a TAS of this game some day.
just wanted to say I am still around here, but for the moment I lost interest in TASing this game, just because it is to long and there is way to much planning to do. However, if someone feels motivated to TAS this one day, maybe when this or even more glitches are totally understood, I am totally willing to help them, just ask me then... :)
Could the desync be due to different ROMs e.g. [hIR00] vs [!]? Would you mind auditing the ROM used in this run?
I use a normal (U) ROM, no specific version or something.. I just recently downloaded a random ROM to test whether it syncs, and it synced perfectly, so I don't know, why it doesn't sync for some of you.. and as far as I know, I didn't enable any specific settings.. Does it desync at the very beginning or at what point? Maybe Kirkq can tell us, how he got it to sync, since it seems that he can watch my WIPs...
Kirkq wrote:
You go somewhat far out of your way for some of the Djinn. Its hard to know how necessary they are throughout the run, so I will trust your judgment.
Well, I have to get the pound cube anyway, so getting cannon is not that timewasting. And I think, he is definitely worth getting. For future djinnis, there will definitely be more planning and stuff, to see what djinni (that may be far out of the route) is really worth getting.
Kirkq wrote:
I assume the beginning of the run is a bit obsolete due to the new battling trick of canceling actions.
Well actually there is only one optional encounter I really fight against and that is to lose my PP fast, so I don't think that this trick would save a lot until now... Anyway, thanks for helping and sharing ideas :)
So, yes, this is still alive.
I've been really busy and actually will be the next time, so don't expect a lot of progress (I hope, there will still be a bit, though)
Anyway:
New WIP
I've finally found a way to manipulate fights so I can flee from almost every random encounter (it sometimes wastes a lot of frames, though).
When you choose an attack with Felix or Jenna, but then press 'B' to undo your decision, it seems to affect the RNG as if the attack was already executed. This way things like enemy behaviour can be changed. This also allows to flee from fights by choosing attack and pressing 'B' a couple of times until you actually can escape.
When I don't flee from encounters, that's because I have to lose pp anyway, and for manipulating better fights later.
At this point I'm a bit over 11 minutes ahead of the run that got rejected a while ago.
I hope I will have more time to work on this in around a month, but I can't promise anything.
@ Slowking:
I just want to complete an any% run of this game, because I think since it's a normal game, there should be room for a normal run. It might be more interesting with strong characters and weapons and stuff, but it could also be really boring, and since this is my first TAS, I just want to complete this game in a normal category and not some custom 'uses-GS1-code'-category.
So here's the new WIP: using the new route, and skipping the bossfight totally. This saves about 800-1000 frames in the end.
For everyone who can't get the movie to sync, I uploaded the new route to Youtube (Non-TAS and not aiming for speed obiously ;))
Are yo starting this game from scratch? Imo that's kinda a missed oportunity.
Either making a GS1 TAS first and starting from that password or using a made up passowrd with fun characters in it would make a way more fun TAS, imo.
Yes, it might be funny to see a TAS that completes GS1 first, and then GS2, using the password, but I'm not going to do it, simply because one run alone is 5 hours long, and I really don't want to make a TAS that's 10 hours, because it would just be too much for viewers and for the one who makes the TAS.
Kirkq wrote:
Thought: It may be faster to waste PP by casting move close to a wall or object. I don't remember if you did this or not.
I've tested it some days ago, and it doesn't look faster. I didn't actually count the frames, but I think it doesn't matter where you cast move.
Kirkq wrote:
This guy uploaded some retreat glitches. I also found an important faster Kandorean Temple skip in the comments. [...] I did this even faster -- after the first Wrong Warp, go down and to the other door and Wrong Warp again. You can skip the fight that way.
I actually don't know what door he is talking about. I couldn't find a door that skips the fight with the retreat glitch. It's still possible by using the retreat glitch and then 'fall down' in the room with the ropes, though. I think I will make a video of that and upload it soon, but I'm not sure if it is faster, since you would have to enter the temple through the main door again, and then perform the retreat glitch another time, if you want to get the djinni.
There doesn't seem to be a faster route in the Kandorean temple, even with using the save retreat glitch.
But I've encountered a problem: It's possible to skip most of the Dehkan plateau(and probably a lot of the other dungeons, too), so it brings up the question, what we really need to complete the game. Therefore, I will have to do a lot of testing.
And that means, that there probably won't be concrete progress for some time.
Oh, and thanks for the lua script. It really makes testing a lot easier. :P
New WIP
In the Kandorean Temple, I had to manipulate one random fight, where I could do the two following things:
- loose my pp as fast as possible to perform the retreat glitch and
- manipulate the three chestbeaters to NOT use any herbs.
In order to loose my pp as fast as possible, I needed to get damage with all three characters in one turn and use quake and earthquake as often as possible.
But I still had to manipulate the chestbeaters, that's why I threw in some attacks.
After the fight, I only have to heal everyone, and loose the remaining pp with 'move'.
Now, I still needed to get one fight with 2 enemys that I can escape from on the way to the boss, otherwise they would have used at least one herb again.
In order to do so, I found out that you can change random fights by
- waiting ~ 50-100 frames and
- running a few frames in different directions.
In this case, I ran one step right and one step left before entering the stairs, which wastes only 3 frames but manipulates a good random fight.
After all, the bossfight still isn't perfect, but I think it would take a longer time to manipulate a fight where you don't take any damage than just cure yourself one time, because, other than random fights, you can't manipulate the bossfight by just waiting some frames or changing input or something like that. You can only manipulate the bossfight with battle actions.
By the way, I think the best way to lose all your PP is to take damage and use cure once per party member if the conditions are right.
Hmm, you're probably right, but that means, I will have to manipulate a fight where I get as much damage as possible. I will test it to see, how it turns out :P
Good news! There seems to be a way to manipulate the RNG.
Some Psynergys like 'Move' manipulate the kind of enemys and their behaviour, but it still doesn't affect the number of steps until a random encounter.
However, Psynergys like 'Whirlwind' or 'Mind Read' don't seem to influence the RNG in any way.
Since I don't have the mysterious card from the chest I have found another strategy to kill the 3 chestbeaters in 2 turns (without loosing damage luckily :P):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-IyJCNYtI
Alright, I'm going to post in this thread from now on, because the other one is the GS1 thread.
After a bit of testing I found a way to skip most of the Kandorean Temple with the retreat glitch. I actually only have to do one room, and than I can port into a room that is very close to the end. I will make a movie of this soon.
Edit: Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8fSUqgUpOc
Hey,
First of all, thanks for the reply and offering your help.
Yeah I sometimes press buttons between text boxes for no reasons :P
I actually figured that I lost a frame on the No/Yes-choice at 14105 but I saw it so late that I didn't want to redo all.
I don't think renaming Jenna or any of the others save any frames, because once the text speed is set to 'fast', one word per frame appears, and it doesn't matter if this word is 'Jenna' or just 'J', because it only needs one frame anyway.
Oh, and on the way to Kandorean Temple there only is one random battle, which are two giant bats if I get into the fight on the road (I actually can't escape from that fight on the first turn) or one wild wolf, if I get into the fight in the forest (I can escape here). It could be that I don't even lose frames running through the forest since it's pretty much on the way anyway.
But I found something interesting: If you let Echo explain how a djinn works, it changes the RNG obviously, because you get different fights after a different number of steps. So maybe there are some actions that change the RNG, other than fights and walking through doors multiple times.
Another thing I found out some days ago: walking instead of running can extend the time until you get into a fight, because (like you said before in this thread) walking adds a different value to the 'step counter' than running, but the value is too little compared to the speed of walking.
That means, if you get into a random fight frames before you change the area, you can walk a little distance instead of run it, which will let you enter the next area, before you encounter the random fight.
Edit: Changing areas at different frames also seems to change the number of steps until a random fight, but not the enemys. I don't know if it changes behaviour in fights, I didn't test it yet, but I don't think it does.
That means, that we will maybe have to waste some frames in order to have the lowest number of random fights.
New WIP:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/260606823/Golden%20Sun%202.vbm
The 'Return to last Sanctum'-trick can be performed, when controlling Felix the very first time with the result, that you will be in the sactum of daila, skipping a LOT of dialogue.
With this trick I was able to save a bunch of frames over the submitted run, which adds up to 5585 - yup, 5585 - frames saved until leaving daila. :D
Hi everybody ;)
I'm currently working on a run of Golden Sun: The lost Age, even though I didn't know that another run was submitted.
Due to optimization, I was able to save more than 700 frames until now over the submitted run:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/447115103/Golden%20Sun%202-WIP1.vbm
I actually won't tas much further than daila for the moment, because I will first do some research on the retreat glitch and stuff like that until I continue.
One question: Would the retreat glitch be a different category than any% without the glitch? Or would a glitched run obsolete a non-glitched one?
Hi everybody,
I'm pretty new to these forums, and I actually started tasing this game three days ago without even knowing, that a run was in progress, because I really wanted to see a run of this game on the site.
But I have to say, that this run is pretty unoptimized. I've only tased the very first part of the game so far, because I was playing around alot and stuff like that, but even until the second fight, my run is nearly 400 frames ahead, although this part is almost only dialogue.
That's mostly because of better running and menu scrolling.
I didn't watch the entire movie yet, but I think, planning is good and all, but execution is not really that good that it could be. Maybe the run should nonetheless be published, because I don't know, if I will actually finish my run and even if I do, it would take a long time to do so.
Oh, and if my english is bad, that's because I use a translator for most of my english text :P
Edit: I just looked at my run again, and I'm actually over 500 frames ahead after the 2. fight.