Posts for RiskBreaker_Y

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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Yea I definitely want to try out his route although I'm not sure how optimal it is farming Battle Points early on instead of just proceeding with the game and earning Chaining Abilities naturally. So is the Seventh Heaven the best pick for chaining then? It certainly should make battles easier including specific rooms like Bandit's Hollow easier as well in a regular speedrun. I'll probably complete a theory segmented run with these strats before spending any significant amount of time doing another RTA.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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So apparently there's a Japanese TAS that clocks in at 1:25. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17294752 It was made in 2012 so I don't know how optimized it is, but the strategies utilized are interesting to say the least. In lieu of Fandango or Magnolia Frau, the runner opts for Seventh Heaven (crossbow found in the Wine Cellar). I knew an Arbalest would be best for ng+ and this selection confirms the notion that the best defense is a good offense. The animation might even be faster, I need to confirm this. The range on the crossbow allows the player to initiate combat every time, thus ensuring that a continuous chain combo prevents any enemy/boss from attacking hence negating the need for leveling up defense abilities. It seems like the TAS utilizes Instill/Phantom Pain combinations in conjunction with Raging Ache. This drastically reduces boss battle times although I am unclear how the mechanic works because it appears to be used consecutively which is something I was unaware about. I don't want to give away anything else...even stat selection differed from my expectations.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
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I can never get used to how easy it looks to avoid enemies. I don't really have any recommendations except for one thing: in the last box puzzle in AMB1 (where they're stacked), would it be faster to leap from the ledge to the right to the top of the pile instead of destroying the boxes? And yes, you will be grinding faerie wings from the flying ichthious enemies in the snowfly forest....well, grinding isn't the right word. It'll be necessary to force the few that you encounter along the way to drop this item (2-3 I'd say, with a 4th possible drop but may be slower). You'll need them to skip a few box puzzles later in the game. Good to know that the magnolia frau is the optimal weapon for raging ache abuse, i just hope that it has the necessary range for later bosses.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Oh nice, VS update. I'm at work right now so I can't give proper feedback yet until I've watched the latest WIP. I will say that if your arm is in the red (50% dmg) it won't make a difference in a speedrun. It only affects base dmg values so considering Raging Ache will be the tool of choice when dealing dmg you should be good.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Excellent work! Things that were great: 1) I like how you targeted the Ghost as soon as it spawned. Being right next to the door is a bonus. 2) You just hopped over that skeleton like nothing right after the Ghost. I guess you have to be at a higher level to make it, I never even thought of that. 3) Optimal box puzzle solution. 4) Taking damage from the enemies following the lizards mini-boss battle. You have to take damage somewhere and this is a good place for that. 5) Playing hide & seek with the slime and bat right before the Dragon. I could do this with the slime alone but not with the bat too. Funny stuff. 6) Targeting the Dragon's tail. Excellent strategy, that seems tough to do normally but it should be worth incorporating into a speedrun. On the Duane battle: yea I've definitely revamped my strats against him since my submission at SDA. I also target his legs but I have to rely on a ~30% chance of landing an initial blow of roughly 25-30 hp dmg with over 80 RISK usually. Yea each henchman actually says something different, depending on which one is still left alive. One important question though: after Duane, have you tried jumping over the river to the other side? This is practically the only sequence break I can imagine for this game (besides somehow glitching through locked doors). If you could accomplish this, you'd be able to skip ALL of Abandoned Mines B1 and save yourself almost 10 mins. game time. I've never been able to pull this off but I'm hoping this is possible in a TAS?? I doubt it, but you should look into it at least.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
I'll check out the WIP later since I'm at work right now. Regarding equipping the Magnolia Frau, you should wait until after the Wyvern fight considering its tail is weak to edged weapons. There's also a mandatory fight with a couple zombies where the Fandango also comes useful. The staff is made of silver so it should be useful against them too but the low PP would result in roughly the same damage output as the Fandango which should have a lot of PP by now. That's why I say wait so there's less menu navigation.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
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Wow, you're really cruising through this. My best segment 1 time is actually 14:07 (which can be dropped further obviously), but you still blow that away! I got my 3rd chain ability after the golem. And if you managed to avoid that hellhound in the catacombs at the box puzzle then that's pretty impressive. That thing has ohko'd me a couple times during my single segment attempts. I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're doing, clearly you baited one of them to destroy a box but that still leaves the other one. Used the skeleton as a human shield perhaps?
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Heh, you definitely have the right idea. The Ghost spawns out of range like most of the time. So getting to it right away can be tricky normally; I usually get out of its range to avoid Solid Shock by inching my way to the right. This way I open the combat sphere on its 2nd teleport. However, it's possible for it to teleport next to you right away. It seems random to me, but maybe there's some way for you to manipulate it to spawn in the right place?
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
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Basically the higher your risk, the lower your probability of landing your initial attack. Beamup's Combat Mechanics Guide over at gamefaqs has complete formulas and stuff that breaks everything down. I wouldn't recommend managing risk considering your focus will be on getting the right combination of hits & misses during your chains. I've been able to randomly land clean hits (without crits even) when risk is as high as a 100. Even if it says 0% chance of landing a hit, there's actually still a chance (don't ask me how this works, I dunno). I've gotten lucky and killed stirges in abandoned mines b1 this way among many other instances. So just concentrate on saving frames and sheathe your weapon during door opening animations as much as possible. Also, I noticed you mentioned something about addresses. Over at the gamefaqs board and on youtube, there's a VS modder named Valendian who has been dissecting the game for awhile. If you need specific technical information about the game engine or whatever then I recommend you get in contact with him. I'm sure he'll help you out in any way he can.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Good stuff. Those slimes appear when you have less than 149 HP I believe, so you'll have bats instead. Also, after the 3rd boss when you return to the adjacent room, there will be a skeleton in your way since your current HP will cause it to spawn. You'll lose some time killing it to get it out of the way, but the chains should help your Battle Point count. You might run into an additional skeleton after the lizards 'mid-boss' fight too I think for the same reason. Any slimes you encounter are entirely avoidable though, including the slime right before the Golem boss fight in the next Sanctum section. You just have to wait for it to descend the stairwell a little bit and then climb up so that it's forced to jump up after you. Edit: You probably shouldn't sheathe your weapon since you're going to have to use it soon and you should be able to manipulate an initial hit anyway. It's probably faster to sheathe until after you kill the skeleton in the room with the rusted door, during the door opening animation (right after 3rd boss).
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Yea in terms of landing the initial attack against bosses, it shouldn't be too much of a problem if it can be done under normal conditions (albeit the Fandango with a longer range). I'm actually curious to see where jumping will be required in boss fights (Rosencrantz is fast) if at all. I'm pretty sure Braveheart gems just increase your odds of landing your base attack. Landing subsequent chains after that is entirely dependent on the inherent chain evade property of an enemy's body part (Check Beamup's CMG for complete stats). Risk, gems, agility, or nothing else affects the odds of landing a chain. I was under the impression that a TAS could circumvent this unfortunate annoyance but apparently it's very difficult to get a long string of chains to connect without a miss.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Nice work, as per usual. That room where you avoid the second bat is amazing, the best I could do is just force it to miss me and hit a corner with luck. As for your questions, I’ll answer them as best as I can. 1) I’m not completely certain on whether turning off the Information Display saves time or not. I want to say yes, but you’d probably be able to answer this better than me. The idea is this: if you turn it off, then whenever an enemy (or you) casts a spell or performs a special attack that initiates the ‘charge’ animation (which is the game loading maybe), the name of the attack will be missing at the bottom of the screen. I’ve tested this and I swear it seems like the spells/special attacks are more quick (the ‘charge’ animation is faster), but obviously more thorough testing is necessary. Note that this would only be useful if an enemy were to even get it off in the first place, something I’m beginning to doubt in a TAS. More on this later. Turning off the Timing Display does nothing except remove the exclamation point above Ashley Riot’s head when chaining attacks or using a defense ability, so I doubt turning it off saves any time. It’s only useful as a frame of reference normally. 2) Getting the Magnolia Frau is something Moooh from SDA suggested to me awhile back. After playing around with it, I’ve come to agree with this suggestion. The weapon properties aren’t important: it’s the chaining speed associated with the animation itself. In my speedrun, I go with the Fandango because a) I prefer chaining with 1-h swords/maces and b) with Raging Ache it doesn’t matter what you use since your damage output isn’t dependent on weapon str, type, affinity, or anything like that as Acheron86 has already described. After some testing, I’ve confirmed that staffs chain the quickest out of all weapon animations (you should confirm this to be absolutely certain; after staves 1-h swords/daggers/1-h maces are best probably with crossbows being the worst most likely). You’ll waste time equipping it, but in the long run, it’ll be worth equipping this staff since it’s along the way anyway and early (although you wouldn’t equip it until after the Wyvern battle in Abandoned Mines B1 since its tail is weak to edged weapon types i.e. Fandango; the Fire Elemental afterward isn’t so weak to base damage from edged weapons though so Raging Ache will be ‘necessary’ by then probably). Staffs have a range value of 2 as opposed to 3 for 1-h swords, but this shouldn’t pose a problem in a TAS I expect. Alternating between Raging Ache and Heavy Shot should be the norm obviously as it’s fastest and Heavy Shot does chip in dmg. 3) As mentioned already, Faerie Wings increase your movement speed as well as jumping distance. This enables you to skip box puzzles in certain areas. In my run, I mistakenly use a 2nd Faerie Wing on the last box puzzle when it should probably be used at the Temple of Kiltia instead right before Kali. In the Snowfly Forest, you normally encounter 3 Ichthious enemies that drop this item (with a 4th one paired with the last one although you’d have to wait for it to approach you). It’s beneficial to kill these normally since they have a water-based attack that’s unblockable that early in the game in a speedrun as well as the Faerie Wing drops, of course. Maybe the 3rd Faerie Wing could be used in Town Center East so that it’ll be easier to minimize the amount of enemy casting. 4) Acheron86 pretty much explained it thoroughly: the number of chains successfully performed minus 1 equals the Battle Points you receive. If you need 5 BPs for your next ability and you perform a chain of 20 hits, none of the extra BPs carry over to the next chain ability. You’ll need to unlock three chain abilities before Raging Ache becomes available (so it’ll be the 4th Chain Ability you unlock): 20, 34, 18, and finally 23 are the magic numbers. Also, I’ve unlocked a chain ability after killing a bat so 1-1=0 but it still went through? Not EVERY time but it’s happened to me before so there are exceptions I guess. 5) Whether Impact Guard is necessary or not is the big question imo. As a conventional runner, my inclination is to say Yes, but you’ve demonstrated some crazy maneuvers in some of the more annoying parts of the entire game imho. Even if you have to Impact Guard in some instances, there is still the question of whether you can manipulate a miss out of the attack which is both faster and will save your skin. There are rooms where it’s nearly impossible to get by without getting hit, I’ll list some examples but there’s more I bet. Later in the Catacombs, after you defeat the Lizards you’ll need to place a box across a room to reach a ledge; in that room, there will be a Hellhound and Skeleton waiting around and I seriously doubt you’ll be able to get by without getting hit (Hellhound uses special attack flame breath which is unblockable at this stage but you CAN manipulate a physical hit instead). You’ll need to kill them and collect some BPs incidentally maybe, adding to your 2nd battle ability count hopefully. Dullahan can be killed in about 7 chains for sure assuming all or most of your chains connect (critical hit as base damage of course), but extending this chaining as much as necessary so that you learn your 1st chain ability from the Ghost might be more efficient. You’ll need Raging Ache by the Fire Elemental in the Abandoned Mines B1 for sure as your Fandango won’t penetrate his defenses and switching up to Magnolia Frau will be necessary since your sword will be ‘useless’ in terms of base damage dealt. After the City Walls, in Abandoned Mines B1 at the beginning with the Stirges (but taking dmg there may be necessary anyway for Raging Ache power). Ward MIGHT be necessary later but that Defense Ability is already in your inventory after the Minotaur battle so you won’t have to ‘level up’ for it. Also, absorbing magical spells most likely won’t be necessary either. On the flip side, you may have to develop the Paralysis Pulse and Dulling Impact chain abilities. If you’re going to avoid magical attacks later in the game by manipulating physical attacks out of certain enemies (i.e. Quicksilvers in Undercity East), then you’ll need the aforementioned chain abilities. Here’s why: those enemies carry silver weapons, thus their attacks are Light based, making Impact Guard ‘miss’ every time and resulting in death (only Absorb Damage can sustain their attacks but there’s no way it will be unlocked by then). Thus, you may need to use Paralysis Pulse/Dulling impact to both shut them up and paralyze them considering there’s no way you will have unlocked Absorb Magic in time to survive their Drain Heart attacks (they also do a Drain MP attack but you’ll need your MP’s to teleport by that time). There’s a specific Crimson Blade in the area right after the Kesch Bridge with a silver axe that may need the same strategy as well in Town Center East right before the section with the Quicksilvers (he casts either an Earth-based spell called Vulcan Lance or an Air-based spell called Lightning Bolt, each requiring separate Defense Abilities although Lightning Bolt is more likely). Dulling Impact can be recalled as the second chain ability unlocked but Paralysis Pulse will be unlocked as the 2nd chain ability after Raging Ache (thanx to Valendian for these tips). 6) In terms of MPs (someone should double-check), eventually you’ll need 71 to teleport from Rue Lejour to the Sunless Way in order to collect a sigil (‘key’ to unlock a door) from a chest nearby. You’ll then need 75 to teleport from the Sunless Way to the Kesch Bridge. After that you’ll need 75 to teleport from the Kesch Bridge back to the Sunless Way. After the Minotaur you will face: Dullahan, Golem, Dragon, Duane, Wyvern, Fire Elemental, Ogre, Giant Crab, Earth Dragon, Grissom/Dark Crusader, Dark Elemental, Air Dragon, Lich, and finally the Nightstalker before teleportation is necessary. These are ‘real’ bosses that give a stat roulette wheel after beating them. So, you’ll need to manipulate a total of +25 MP from these bosses in order to have the max MP necessary to make the teleportation trips. So assuming you can manipulate MP +2 from Dullahan onwards, you’ll have enough MPs to teleport sufficiently before Nightstalker so one more str manipulation may be in order just for kicks. Note, however, that after the first teleportation to the Sunless Way there will be no way for you to have regened your MPs back to max in time so using a mana item once will be necessary. You may need to use another mana item before going back to the Sunless Way in the end as I’m not sure if you’ll be able to fully naturally replenish your MPs in time for the final teleport. Thankfully, you’ll have some Mana Tonics and Roots in your inventory by then so you won’t need to manipulate a Bulb from an enemy for a third use. OK, hopefully that addresses your questions somewhat. Looking into pure str on weapon drops it may help in some instances (i.e. City Walls after the Grissom battle against the Lizards), Raging Ache may make manipulating drops unnecessary. Picking up items costs time as well as equipping and changing them when they become nearly useless. For one, a boss needs to be weak to whatever weapon type you’re using (blunt, edged, piercing) and also you’ll need to build up enough Phantom Points for the weapon to be effective in the first place (a full PP bar adds more damage to base attacks and is built up after repeated use of a weapon, whether it’s multiple chaining or just pure ‘1 hit attacks’ I’m not sure). It also seems a lot of bosses need to be Degenerated/Tarnished in order for the appropriate weapon type/affinity to have any effectiveness in the first place. Obviously, exploiting a boss’s weakness requires you to equip the appropriate gem or casting the right Enchanter spell (assuming you have the right grimoire item, in some cases requiring you to go out of your way to obtain them) which may expend more time than straight up Raging Ache abuse. I’ll check out their weaknesses and see if it’s worth going the edged/blunt/piercing weapon drop route. If you’re going to read any FAQ on this game then I suggest Beamup’s Battle Mechanics Guide on gamefaqs (Acheron86 linked to this earlier). With that said, I’m fairly certain you’ll be sticking with the Magnolia Frau the whole game as farming for weapons and equipping them will cost more time than it’s worth most likely as each boss has a different weakness most of the time. The main thing right now is to figure out where you’re going to get your BPs and where you’re going to take damage.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Nice progress, it's crazy how much you've improved the old wip. From this point on it's gonna be a lot trickier since you have to start collecting Battle Points through chains in the most efficient manner. Raging Ache won't be truly necessary until you get to the Fire Elemental because you should be able to manipulate nice base damage on each boss before then. But that's a little too far off--still gotta get through the Catacombs first which should be easy enough (avoiding the enemies after the initial run through the Wine Cellar is a lot easier, stupid bats). I'm wondering whether there's any way to get across the river in the Sanctum though so that you can skip fighting the Golem. Although it'd complicate the BP situation more, you'd save a really nice chunk of time if there's some way to somehow get across (unlikely, I've tried but still worth a try). Same goes with the river in Town Center West after the Duane battle...again...getting ahead of myself, but I'm curious if tas conditions permit any sequence breaks.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
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Hey that's a nice find with the camera movement, I forgot about that but yea that really helps getting the right angle for the next room. I find that orienting the camera so that Ashley is facing up generally makes for the most convenient point of view. But that's just for chaining/defense timing, for a TAS it really shouldn't matter because you're gonna land everything. Glad to hear you're gonna try and avoid everything, it's definitely possible to bypass most of not all enemies under regular conditions as it is. You'll probably just want to sustain just enough damage to have your HP in single digits so as to maximize Raging Ache's power. Boxes and other obstacles can protect you from enemies as you say, including walls. Also, I don't really see how Crimson Pain would work...by the time you have enough battle points for it you can't inflict damage on most bosses/enemies normally. It'll help for places like in the city walls after the Snowfly Forest where you have to clear out a room full of lizards though. Another thing you may want to look into is going to your menu screen and turning off the information toggle. This makes it so that the information displayed at the bottom of the screen during spells/special attacks doesn't show. I'm not 100% sure but the "charge loading" times seems faster with the info off. I don't think it'll matter since you'll be blowing by everyone but there's no way you can get through Town Center East without someone casting a spell. Something else that can optimize time management...only draw your weapon when you're opening a door and have to wait for it to actually open (when about to face a boss or mandatory fight). Should save a lot of frames over the run.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Posts: 17
Very nice, I'm really liking the movement optimization. The box room with the wolf and bat is impressive, it would normally take a bunch of resets to get to the box in time and minimize the bat attacking you (especially when climbing). Manipulating the stat wheel for STR bonuses early on is most important while the Fandango can actually still deal out decent damage. Later on, MP bonuses become more important because you want to have as much MP as possible when teleporting around so that Mana item use is minimized. Rotating the camera shouldn't cost any time whatsoever...it'd be nice for the TAS to get nice views of the scenery if possible. I can't think of any rare weapon drop that'd be worth equipping since weapon type plays a huge role in damage calculation and enemies' weaknesses vary. Sorry for the long post, but I'm really excited to see something going on for this game. My run on SDA is seriously outdated; I've found a lot of minor improvements that add up to a lot of time saved since the run was posted. My only questions are: is there any way you can glitch through locked doors? That would substantially cut down a lot of time. Also, is there a way to manipulate the game such that each time an enemy attacks you, it misses? This would negate the need to Impact Guard and save a lot time. I wish I can be of more help in terms of technical stuff but I haven't a clue about any of that. Edit: Oh yea, I just thought of something pretty useful. Instead of going through the game with the Fandango, you should equip the Magnolia Frau (staff) that Duane drops in Town Center West (probably after the Wyvern fight since its tail is weak to edged weapons). Chaining with staves is faster than 1-h swords.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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So...the TAS would be boring because you say so? I didn't realize your opinion had the Midas touch. There are a bunch of rpg tases on this website which by your logic would be quite boring since they require 'extensive luck manipulation' and repetitive actions (input command, rinse & repeat). Dare I ask, have you played and completed the game? You're right that it WOULD consist of a lot of hopping but that's the platforming aspect of this game. Failing to appreciate that is like saying the platforming in Mario games are boring because that's ALL the games consist of. Also, I have no idea how you find killing bosses in one combo boring: no one complains about one round kills on bosses in Super Metroid, so what makes VS different? I'm fairly sure not many people find that particular example lacking in entertainment, wouldn't you say? Whether it would be too lacking in 'entertaining' is obviously up to the tasers and the administrators, so I can't really say for sure what they're looking for in a tas run to be honest. But whatever, everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose; I just wanted to get the request out there and nothing else, so I'll just leave it at that.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."
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There are a lot of PSX games that deserve a TAS because they're so good. I've searched through the thread and I haven't seen anyone request Vagrant Story which baffles me. This game has TAS written all over it. You can manipulate luck like hell in this and all the boss fights would look beautiful. Not only that but you'd probably be able to avoid most if not ALL the enemies. Just my two cents. I'd be more than happy to give advice or contribute strategies. I would do this myself but I don't know how to TAS and my computer is not built for that. I don't even know if VS ISO's exist. Anyways, that's my humble request.
"Reinforcements? I AM the reinforcements."