mmbossman: i have not watched any of the runs you listed, nor have i played the games, but i can only assume that the 1 player and 2 player modes for those games are largely the same. and it sounds like they are all played to completion.
maybe i didn't properly define "goal." i meant it as a finishing point, not a task to achieve. playing a free for all in Brawl offers no satisfying finishing point. in Classic mode, the finishing point is the credits (and Captain Falcon, which this run should've done imo). completing the 8 Break the Targets has a finishing point of Luigi.
i don't agree with the idea of making a movie out of a multiplayer match. the goal, in the sense of the game, not the movie, would be lame. sure it's nice to show off, but just doing a free for all doesn't warrant anything like the 1 Player modes do.
i strongly agree with doing Break the Targets. a run for that would complete all 8 stages, unlock and defeat Luigi, and end when the last hit is dealt. i'm not sure how Board the Platforms would fit in, considering where the movie would end.
Another thing to consider is if any eventual run should be on the (J) version. It would enable the wolf glitch Richter skip but on (U) it might be as fast or faster if one could actually pull off a single stop-screen ET to get the Holy Goggles fast.Other than that I can't think of any pluses for (J).
you mean using a Wolf Squeeze above the secret staircase? that can be done on any version.
there are at least three timesavers that the first release Japanese version has:
- Death does not have to be killed. you can reach the final bosses with only four parts of Vlad. this wouldn't be used, as using Edge Travel eliminates the need for the Vlad parts altogether.
- After activating the elevator in Outer Wall, you can make the elevator immediately appear at the top by entering and exiting the CD room that leads to the Warp Room. this can be done on all versions. what the first release J version can do is, after exiting the CD room, you can backdash into the doorway, which will zip you down practically in front of the elevator.
- Fight Richter normally. when the last hit is dealt to him, immediately use a Library Card. when you return to the throne room, the "Richter Saved" cutscene will play. of course, the Wolf Squeeze would be quicker than doing this, so this is only an option if Soul of Wolf is skipped, which i doubt would be done.
and i believe the glitch ziggy is talking about is shown at the beginning of this run, which a Luck Mode TAS should probably be emulating quite a bit of. it also shows the trick in Outer Wall i mentioned.
i agree with everything System Error said, save for the two versions. some of the maneuvers pulled off in this run were pretty entertaining. killing Giant DK and Metal Mario in 2 hits, for example. speed can be entertaining.
i also don't like to think of Smash as a fighter in the same sense as Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. but that's a community issue i won't go into any further.
i was mildly entertained by the run. the examples above were pretty nice, in addition to other stages. but there were some things that looked improvable. the one hit during the Yoshi Team fight that didn't kill was pretty ugly. and actually completing BtT and BtP would help.
i'm going to vote a very positive meh.
Firstly, Normal Mode vs Luck Mode. I think it should be Normal, since you need a 'Clear' Save for Luck mode, making it New Game+, IMO.
you don't need a clear save for Luck Mode. that can be done out of the box.
the reason you didn't get 30MP was because the Drac fight took too long. the game's timer counts cutscenes.
the vid looked good. i'm eager to see more.
i used everything included in the submission text, and it worked. originally, i had forgot to turn on Perfect Sega CD Synchro. that game me a desynch on Collision Chaos 1.
amazing movie. very fast, very well polished.
awesome run. the route doesn't seem optimal to me (fighting Needle Man with Shadow Blades doesn't seem like the best option), but you would know better than i.
Whatever route you take you'll need to make some sacrifices. In this case, killing Needle Man this way is worth it considering the time you'll gain on the gemini stage.
because of Rush Jet, I assume. that makes sense.
on a related note, has the early Rush Jet glitch ever been brought up?
awesome run. the route doesn't seem optimal to me (fighting Needle Man with Shadow Blades doesn't seem like the best option), but you would know better than i.
so i am just the minority with a different viewpoint. that's what i thought. still, i don't agree with the naming scheme here. i do agree with Xkeeper, though, that this run should drop the percentage and just be labeled "glitched/NBMB/rape/etc." while other runs may use glitches, this run uses severe glitches that break the game. like in Circle of the Moon, both runs use the DSS glitch, but one immediately goes to Dracula, while the other does it the old fashioned way.
LLCoolDave wrote:
A low% or 100% can and will obsolete any slower any% run. It is not and never has been any different for real console speedruns or TASes.
pretty much, yeah.
aside from all that, i just wanted to get my original point across that i don't agree with this run being labeled as an any%. "low%, glitched" is the designation i would've chose.
An any% run beats the game as fast as possible.
...
The low% run specification is irrelevant because the game happens to be beaten as fast as possible and collects the least amount of items.[.quote]
the exact opposite of what i've said. my difference in logic must be because i think as a speedrunner, not a TASer. perhaps SDA just has a different definition here? or does no one listen to the n00b? (first time poster, long time lurker. very long time.)
i guess what i've wanted to say is that low% should supercede any% when it comes to categorization because the latter is too general a definition. i don't agree with any% encompassing all percents. this movie has the lowest percent, and should be called a low%.
Kirkq wrote:
A 100% run must take longer than an any% run to exist.
Really? Do you have an example in mind? Why would you choose to do an arbitrary % completion that was longer than low% or 100%?
the Mega Man X1 TAS is low%.
the Mega Man X2 TAS is 100%.
that was what i was saying; when a low% or a 100% is faster, there's no reason for an any% to exist. that doesn't apply to this run, though, as it's a rape/severely glitched/skips all bosses/whatever you want to call it.
i don't believe any% is an actual goal for runs here. if a run isn't low% or 100%, it's just marked as "aims for fastest time." any% is only listed in the run title akaik, and that's only when low% and/or 100% runs already exists.
fuck, this is getting confusing...
it's not an any% by definition, as it collects the lowest possible amount of items.
Actually, it's rather the other way around: collecting the lowest amount of items is a consequence of beating the game as fast as possible, because neither of them except these six save time. As you said earlier, the existence of low% as a category only makes sense if it's not the same as any%.
that doesn't mean the run should be called any%. from my understanding of how percentage works, any% means that the amount of completion (in this case items collected) is somewhere between 0 (or whatever the minimum is) and 100. the extremities are not included in that number, as noted by the seperate categories. unless i'm incorrect that 6 is the lowest percent attainable, this run would be a low% and not an any%.
and actually, i think you are backwards with the last sentence. an any% can only exist if it is faster than a low% or a 100%. if one of those is the fastest method of completing the game, then any% just doesn't exist.
any% is not always synonymous with fastest time.
It is still a "any%, real" movie. It just happens to obsolete the movies for those other branches by accomplishing their goals better than they do, despite not specifically aiming for that particular goal.
it's not an any% by definition, as it collects the lowest possible amount of items. i do see what you mean though; that this could obsolete the any% altogether if a glitched any% run were to be made.
i think i've made up my mind where i stand on this. i believe this run should just be called "glitched" and nothing else. and it shouldn't obsolete any of the three runs in jeopardy, because they are not glitched to the same extremity. like how Castlevania: Circle of the Moon and Aria of Sorrow have glitched runs and nonglitched runs.
the first problem i see here is that this run is marketed as both a low% and an any% run. low% =/= any% in every case. low% completes the run with the bare minumum of resources. any% completes the run with a number between, and not including, the minimum and the maximum. when an low% is faster than an any%, only then is the any% obsolete. but when the any% is faster, the low% exists as a seperate category.
now while these definitions above would seem that this run obsoletes three runs, the exception here is that this is heavily glitched. so all runs are able to coexist.
so the only issue i see here is whether the 14% should stay as a "low%, nonglitched", or if this "6%, glitched" run should obsolete it. both sides have posited relevant claims. and my words above back the "keep" option. however, i'm still somewhat divided on the issue. it isn't as black and white as 16 Stars vs. 1/0 Stars.
but what i'm trying to get across here is that this should be the only argument. both any% runs should not be in any danger, as this run differs from them so much.
awesome run, by the way.