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jlun2 wrote:
It's not ok to post on the TASVideos channel. It's absolutely ok to post on channels of people who pay you.
Brb, I'm going to go see if there's a job offer for TASing and video gaming.
What makes you think they paid me?
They created unique commentary in a separate language to explain the video, which helps people understand what it is. I have nothing wrong with that, because the viewers benefit from more knowledge about the game being discussed. If anyone can improve the entertainment value with what I create, by all means please do so. TVC would just be nothing more than a copy of the same material.
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Before I submit the run, I would like someone to attempt to sync it on their computer. No reason to submit in the first place if no one else can verify it. To TAS, I used a Dolphin build by RachelB, but it should sync on build 3.0-389. The game is Biohazard 4 with the ID G4BJ08. Any takers?
RachelB also created an A/V hack version of Dolphin, but I have been unsuccessful in getting that build to sync, because it adds frames to the beginning. The 3.0-389 build of Dolphin doesn't have the A/V hack, so encoding becomes very inconvenient.
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natt wrote:
The TASVideos publication license grants him/her/it/them/Illuminati all of the permission he/she/it/they/Illuminati need/needs to repost content. He/She/It/They/Illuminati is/are still posting videos without any particular cooperation or coordination with the site staff.
Excellent info to be aware of.
creaothceann wrote:
IMO as long as s/he links back to the source and doesn't misrepresent facts, reposting is fine and doesn't need any permission.
Agreed about linking the source, although I will say reposting does seem unnecessary.
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feos wrote:
He started youtubing our tases back when they were almost not present at youtube at all. Mirrored quite a ton of Archive streams, and it was really good. Then, after youtube was taken into official consideration (HD encode era), his videos started becoming obsoleted.
Well that makes sense. If that's the case, why is he still uploading the TASes the site already hosts on TVC? Seems kinda strange to do that, and I doubt he obtains the permission to post all the videos he uploads from the varying authors. I assume he's just trying to help us with spreading TASes, but it kinda defeats his own purpose when the official TASVideosChannel is doing the exact same thing.
And we keep referring to him as a "he" right? As in 1 guy, and not a group like TVC is?
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NitroGenesis wrote:
It was pretty obviously a joke. ashoel
There's no reason to be disrespectful here, and call me an asshole an additional two times (one being the subject of your last message). Let's be more productive about this. I'm making a request, not a demand.
NitroGenesis wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
Isn't that a fairly reasonable request?
No.
How is it unreasonable to request I have the uploading writes to something I created?
NitroGenesis wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
No, I'm not afraid of that. The more direct an author is with the audience , it's easier and more effective to get people interested in TASing, which is what we all want.
...and how is having the video on a different channel going to possibly affect this.?
YouTube inbox. I get notifications every time someone writes a comment.
"NitroGenesis wrote:
They're losing from their run being on TVC. (I don't agree with it either, but that seemed to be an accepted decision) I'm guessing Mega Man X6 was a mistake, seeing as how there's nothing in the run's thread about it.
Could be. I'm unsure about that myself.
NitroGenesis wrote:
Also, what are you really gaining from having the run on your channel?
Nothing. I, myself, am gaining nothing. That's one of the points I've tried to get across. It's the viewers benefiting, not me. What better way to provide material to people than straight from the creator himself? There's no need for a 2nd hand source.
NitroGenesis wrote:
Tens of hours?
Hundreds.
NitroGenesis wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
I'd like to point out to you that webnations has 29,286 subs, yet barely achieves 1000 views for the content it posts blabbity blabbity blah
Many people are fascinated by TASes in general and will subscribe to a channel that uploads TASes of multiple genres.
As far I as I can tell, it seems like webnations is just stealing runs from other sites (RTS runs from SDA too) and just uploading them. When a channel uploads 1,500 videos, they're bound to get a few subs here and there.
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NitroGenesis wrote:
Mr. SoulCal, if you didn't want people discussing the fact that you want recognition, you shouldn't have stated it as your #1 argument.
It's not that I didn't want to people to discuss it; I didn't want people to over-discuss it. It wasn't my #1 argument, it was just the 1st one I mentioned. My mistake for listing it 1st and confuse people into thinking it's what I cared about the most.
NitroGenesis wrote:
Who cares about monetization? I wasn't talking about it.
You did talk about it:
NitroGenesis wrote:
Anyway uploading the full run to my YT account because I'm an asshole and want money.
I'm guessing you're saying this in a sarcastic way to attempt to reflect my thoughts on why I want the run on my YT account, which is false, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to me as an asshole.
NitroGenesis wrote:
One of the reasons you wanted the run on your channel was because you wanted the recognition for the eleventy-trillion hours you poured into making a speedrun of a video game.
Isn't that a fairly reasonable request?
NitroGenesis" wrote:
Hell, your second and third reasons basically play off of the first reason, which is "I want it on my channel so people know I did it". The second reason is just you saying you want it on your channel again, and the third one is is that there are exceptions to the rule, which is hardly a point.
My 2nd point I expanded on in later posts. Having the same run uploaded to two accounts divides the community, because there are different sources for the same material. The 3rd point though is valid, because we have exceptions to a rule which was stated to not allow exceptions.
NitroGenesis wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
but I do care about feedback and comments left on my work, and I shouldn't have to check another YouTube channel to respond to people that have questions or are interested.
Oh, come on. It's not a huge journey to go onto one other video and respond to questions. Are you afraid that there will be thousands of comments and responding to them will be impossible on TVC?
No, I'm not afraid of that. The more direct an author is with the audience , it's easier and more effective to get people interested in TASing, which is what we all want.
"NitroGenesis wrote:
Also, those videos are being monetized. Yours isn't. The only thing you'd be losing if it wasn't on your channel would be - you guessed it - recognition.
Why should monetization be considered as a reason for having exceptions? By that logic, any run an author submits can bypass the rule just by saying "my material is allowed to be monetized." Btw, Megaman X6 is an exception, and it is not monetized.
NitroGenesis wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
There's really not a lot of people that would sub to a channel for a combination of all TAS types... blabbity blabbity blab
I'd like to point out to you that webnations has 29,286 subs, yet barely achieves 1000 views for the content it posts. Therefore, either only 1/20th of the subs are active, or they just don't give a care for a majority of the material posted, which is a very similar scenario with TVC and it's 5000 subs. Idk what webnations' contributions to us are, but they're just uploading runs that TASVideos.org hosts, which again goes back to my point of there being no reason to divide the community if we can prevent it. And please don't belittle my comments with "blabbity blabbity blah." I'm making requests here, not demands.
Webnations uploads TASes from this site, then posts a link in the description to the publication pages, then the publication pages have links to the TASVideosChannel upload of the exact same video. Pardon my language, but this seems like one very large and unnecessary circle-jerk.
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From the other thread: I also want to point out what, I think, is a flaw with having all the runs posted to 1 channel. If a user subs to a channel, it's generally because of specific content (like a specific game, genre, or console). I had to de-sub from the TVC myself because I saw nothing but a large volume of runs I cared nothing for. People sub to Grunz for zelda, to sonicpacker for Mario/sonic, to Mothrayas for Megaman, etc. There's really not a lot of people that would sub to a channel for a combination of all TAS types, especially with 1,124 current uploads, many of which are labeled [Obsolete TAS], or are runs that have already existed for years now. It seems rather silly to upload a brand new TAS, but the next uploads are runs 3-4 years old, or obsolete.
I think having a non-specialized channel (TVC) divides the community instead of it's intend to expand it. The TVC is an okay idea, but really only should serve as a place for authors to publish their work if their account still has the file size / time restrictions, or if they don't want to deal with encoding and such themselves. In fact, it would probably be far more beneficial to the site if I requested for someone like sonicpacker to upload my TAS to his channel (since his channel specializes with N64/GC). It's almost guaranteed to get thousands of more views, thus promote the site far more than TVC would, which is one of my goals being part of the site anyway. He's already an exception to the rule, so there shouldn't be an issue doing that (this is a hypothetical, I'm not saying I would necessarily request it, but others might).
EDIT: I'd also like to point out I began this run back in July 2011, a full year before the policy was intact.
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SoulCal wrote:
I swear if one more person mentions the "recognition" argument again I'm going to punch a baby (I mean, I wouldn't, but this is seriously annoying me at this point). My mistake for even bringing it up in the first place. Move on, next bullet point.
Some people apparently REALLY want me to punch that baby.
NitroGenesis wrote:
I think TASing should be done for fun only. If your only driving factors in spending hundreds of hours playing a video game is "I want fans and views!" then I will kill you.
Anyway uploading the full run to my YT account because I'm an asshole and want money.
As stated by me before:
SoulCal wrote:
I'd like to also point out I'm not saying this due to YouTube monetization or getting video views. In fact, I cannot even monetize Resident Evil 4, because Capcom claims copyright to some of the cutscenes, and I have actually received a strike on my account for my previous WIP for the Krauser knife cutscene
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Mothrayas wrote:
Let me try to get the facts straight here:
1) SoulCal does not want his run on TASVideosChannel, or prominently visible on TASVideosChannel, because dumb YouTubers will misattribute the run to the uploader, or maybe other reasons.
It's also because I should not have to check another channel in order to read the feedback, and respond to that feedback, for something I created, unless I choose to do so.
Mothrayas wrote:
2) Evidently, there are multiple exceptions to the TVC rule because these authors prefer having their run on their own channel. These exceptions can be granted for whatever reason the author wants, including recognition, viewcount, dollars, or anything else they can think of.
Idk if the exceptions are granted because the author wants it, or if the site wants it. That hasn't been made clear as to why there are exceptions for a rule for which there were to be no exceptions.
"Mothrayas3 wrote:
Thus, SoulCal can easily just state somewhere in the submission that he wants the publication YouTuber to be his own. No issues there, we have been down that road before.
Am I allowed to submit my dtm and make the request, but if denied I can withdraw my submission?
Mothrayas wrote:
So unless I'm missing something, there shouldn't be any problem with submitting?
Well the partial problem extends from your #3, as we've had no response from someone high up on the site declare a yes or no. I don't want to submit my run and have my request denied, and then lose the rights to my dtm.
I also want to point out what, I think, is a flaw with having all the runs posted to 1 channel. If a user subs to a channel, it's generally because of specific content (like a specific game, genre, or console). I had to de-sub from the TVC myself because I saw nothing but a large volume of runs I cared nothing for. People sub to Grunz for zelda, to sonicpacker for Mario/sonic, to Mothrayas for Megaman, etc. There's really not a lot of people that would sub to a channel for a combination of all of those, especially with 1,124 current uploads, many of which are labeled [Obsolete TAS]. I think having a non-specialized channel divides the community instead of it's intend to expand it. I think the TVC is an okay idea, but really only should serve as a place for authors to publish their work if their account still has the file size / time restrictions, or if they don't want to deal with encoding and such themselves. In fact, it would probably be far more beneficial to the site if I requested for someone like sonicpacker to upload my TAS to his channel (since his channel specializes with N64/GC). It's almost guaranteed to get thousands of more views, and promote the site far more than TVC would, which is one of my goals being part of the site anyway. He's already an exception to the rule, so there shouldn't be an issue doing that (this is a hypothetical, I'm not saying I would necessarily do it)
Let's continue the discussion here as it is the original thread, and people are discussing it there again.
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IMPblackbelt wrote:
I understand where you're coming from, SoulCal. It makes complete sense that you'd want recognition for what you've done, given the blood, sweat, and tears you've given this project. The big thing about the TASvideos Channel on YT, though, is that there are so many videos uploaded that are done by so many people, that the small few that think that they're all done by one person are either corrected or just never going to understand (the author info is also embedded into official encodes as well).
I swear if one more person mentions the "recognition" argument again I'm going to punch a baby (I mean, I wouldn't, but this is seriously annoying me at this point). My mistake for even bringing it up in the first place. Move on, next bullet point.
But thanks IMPblackbelt about the run looking good. It's thanks to you guys, especially with all the error correction from other users, that this run became what it is.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
You're in the wrong community if you're doing it purely for the recognition.
C'mon guys, I never said I'm doing it "purely" for recognition. That was ONE concern I had out of 5 I mentioned, but you guys seem to keep trying to say that's all I care about. Sure, I'm willing to admit getting some recognition is good, but who wouldn't after spending 200+ hours on a project? A project which was created for the website, with ZERO profit on my part, and allow me to contribute to the TAS community. Idk how many times I have to mention "it's not just a matter of recognition" (so far, 3) before we can move on and discuss the other issues brought up.
VanillaCoke wrote:
Along with SoulCal, I'm also curious why the rule doesn't apply to the three movies SoulCal listed, when clearly there were to be no exceptions.
Also, I don't see how those runs could be corrected. It would risk alienating some of the most popular authors that this site has. If those three runs aren't corrected, but SoulCal's TAS isn't allowed to be solely hosted on his YouTube, then it becomes an insult to SoulCal. It would be because either A) He's not as recognizable as the authors in those three runs or B) Because of his game choice/he didn't TAS SM64, OoT or MMX6 (two of the three being the most popular games on this site).
Thank you for moving the discussion forward. I cannot speak for Grunz or the Mario64 crew, but I agree it might alienate those authors if TVC posted those runs, as it would essentially take away views (and thus money) from those channels. I know there are current improvements to the Mario64 run, and if a new TAS is sumbitted, I highly doubt TVC will post it on youtube. The same goes for OoT.
"jlun2 wrote:
Or it could've been this. :P
I doubt it is bribery, but SM64 and OoT are both monetized. The post reads "TASVideos does not exist to provide hits to your YouTube channel. Everyone's TASes will be more visible under this new arrangement." Both of these sentences are misleading when we have exceptions; two of which are monetized, bring large number of views to their account, and are far more visible than if posted on the TASVideosChannel because of more popularity.
If someone has the ability to relocate these past 2 pages to the other topic, then we could continue the discussion there.
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Bobo the King wrote:
SoulCal, I have no idea why you would turn down more recognition. Basically, you're willing to limit yourself to a much smaller audience as long as they all understand it's you, rather than a larger audience among whom a small proportion will mistake your work for another's.
Again, recognition is only 1 reason out of about 5 I've listed. One of the bigger ones though is we have exceptions totherule, making the rule arbitrary. I've listed my other reasons in past posts, so I'm not going to sound like a broken record any longer by repeating myself. I agree with AngerFist this discussion should move on, and be more productive.
Bobo the King wrote:
Suppose keeping your TAS unpublished and exclusive to your own video channel means you get approximately 1,000 viewers (I checked how many views your videos have gotten). Now suppose that publishing your video means that it gets 10,000 viewers, 2,000 of whom fail to recognize that it's your work while 8,000 say, "Hey, this guy SoulCal has made something really great." On what planet is that a bad thing?
TVC doesn't get but 500-1000 views with 1/2 the content it posts, and it has 5000 subs. And I couldn't care less about my view count anyway.
"AngerFist wrote:
SoulCal, if you want your run to solely be uploaded on your channel then fine.
If someone high up on the TASVideos ladder can agree to this, then I will gladly submit my dtm the moment it happens. New runs bring new people to the site, so we all benefit. My encode also has annotations which explain many common questions people have (sorta similar to the audio commentaries on some TASes). I've had quite a few people say they're very helpful when trying to follow along when they're confused, but there'd still be a run for download w/o them.
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Ilari wrote:
CobraSmurf wrote:
since its on emulator, i thought there is a way around this and videos can be made higher framerate than in original game.
That is only possible in very rare cases where game updates the video data more often than screen updates. This game almost certainly doesn't.
I suppose we could simulate 60fps if we could force interlaced video from the emulator (because GCN is 480i). RE4 in Dolphin by holding B at startup boots the game in progressive mode, but it seems from what I've tested that it always renders a full screen at once regardless of how it's booted. Dolphin dumps the video at 60fps, but it's also twice as fast as it should be.
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, tbh, when there's people who are that dumb to mistakenly believe that TASVideosChannel is a person instead of a group, then there's probably people who are also ignorant of who made the run regardless if it was posted on your channel or not. :P
But if posted on the creator's channel, and only the creator's channel, there's 0 chance of mistaken authorship. Otherwise when people search for a TAS yet see multiple uploads, it gets confusing. It's annoying enough to search for a TAS, and have the same one pop upon on 2 accounts. Depending upon who gets more views, one is viewed as copying the other, regardless if people think an individual made it, or if a group of people made the TAS. And again, it's not just about acknowledgment for my work. I like seeing the feedback I get from users and people interested in the TAS and I shouldn't have to check another channel to get that feedback.
I'm against allowing ignorance on any level, which is something we already have to fight enough on this site with being accused of cheating or hacking.
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VanillaCoke wrote:
If your only concern is recognition then a compromise during the encoding process could very likely be made. Perhaps a super logo (advertises TASVideos, identifies the author and rerecord count) or a second logo at the start of the encode listing your alias as the author and some stats about the TAS. It would be short enough that skipping wouldn't become a thought, but long enough to clearly communicate and establish yourself as the author. Everyone could be happy between it being uploaded to TVC and no case of mistaken identity.
But we already have both a logo appearing before every video, and a notice stating the author and rerecord count a few minutes in. Making it a "super logo" would just piss people off.
VanillaCoke wrote:
Also, it seems unlikely that a YouTube account named the "TASVideosChannel" could be mistaken for the creation of a TAS. The name communicates instantly that it's an account with videos from a site called TASVideos.
Remember, this is the internet, where people don't use logic. :p
VanillaCoke wrote:
So if it's really just a matter of recognition then you shouldn't have any worries.
It's not just a matter of recognition, that's just 1 reason. It just seems absurd to me to allow someone (the TVC) to post MY material, that I spent 200+ hours creating. I don't care about the views, but I do care about feedback and comments left on my work, and I shouldn't have to check another YouTube channel to respond to people that have questions or are interested. Besides, allowing the site to host my material, but having the encode be on my YouTube page does nothing but bring more people to the site, so TASvideos benefits, especially with a game as popular as RE4. Having two encodes on two channels just divides the community, which is something we all want to avoid. That's the best reason I can see us having those exceptions I mentioned, because the site benefits FAR more with other, more popular, names on YouTube like Grunz or sonicpacker.
But also consider this: let's say TVC uploads my TAS, and they get 1000 subs from it. Why do people sub to channels? Because they like that specific content! If they subbed for RE4, but afterwards no more RE4 content arrives, then people de-sub, and they lose interest in the channel (and the site). That's why I de-subbed from TVC, cause I saw nothing but a large influx of TASes I cared nothing about. Having specialized channels with specific content has people coming back for more.
VanillaCoke wrote:
Also, I loved the finished run. Congratulations on completing it and hopefully you'll submit.
Glad to create it, but hope improvements will be made in the future, or maybe something like Assignment Ada.
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VanillaCoke wrote:
The most enjoying part of TASing for me is watching the view count on my YouTube account when I post a WIP or TAS.
I couldn't care less about my view count. I just want the recognition for what I did since I put a couple hundred hours into making this run. I don't want people thinking someone else made it.
And here's my complete TAS
Link to video
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I can partially agree with jlun2 and Warepire. Warepire does bring up a point that if people are too lazy to read then we can all silently laugh at them. However, while good things don't come from encouraging the negativity crowd, encouraging ignorance never really helped either... We would need something like a big disclaimer to put at the beginning of every video, and possibly somewhere a few minutes after the run begins with text blocking part of the screen to indicate who made the run, and how to link to the TASvideos site...oh, wait, we already do those, and people STILL ignore them. :p
jlun2, a compromise would be a great idea...but I don't see why I should compromise when other TASers didn't. The post says "Everyone's TASes will be more visible under this new arrangement," which is simply not true. I can be fairly certain that having the TAS on my (or on MrGrunz,sonicpacker,etc) YouTube pages would be more beneficial to the site, because we can get more views than TVC would.The only reason I see those exceptions existing is because those runs are uploaded on more popular channels, thus get more views, which brings more people to the site. Thus, the site benefits from the exceptions. TVC has 5000 subs, but most videos barely get over a few hundred views. Even if all 5000 subs viewed the TAS on TVC, there's not benefit to the site, cause most of those 5000 already know what TVC is, so no one new is visiting.
The reason I suggest the video being labeled as private is as a backup. And honestly, that's pretty much all the TVC is, a backup of runs on the site. I had to un-sub because 1/2 my feed was nothing but [Obsolete TAS]. I think the TVC should only exist to host runs where the author is incapable of doing so himself; doesn't have an account, or if they still have the file size / time limit restrictions.
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I am uploading my entire TAS to YouTube right now, but will take a while.
And I hate to sound like a whining bitch, but...after reading this post I don't really want to submit my run now for a few reasons:
1. Whenever I see a run uploaded (on any channel), I often see in the comments things such as "wow, you are good" or "hey, your TAS is awesome." etc. Uploading to a secondary channel gives the false impression the uploader is the author of said TAS. Even in my console verification videos, I constantly have people say to me "Hey SoulCal, you're good at playing this game." I don't want to take credit for the work the SM64 crew did, but people still think I am the author, even when I have clear as day in the title of the video "authors in the description."
2. I would be fine with having the site have my run uploaded to TASVideosChannel, but if submitted I would prefer the link to be to my upload. The run uploaded to the TASVideos channel should be set to private, and should really only serve as a backup in case something happens to my YouTube account. This wouldn't violate the decision of "all new published movies must have an encode on the Official TASVideosChannel," as long as the run is set to private.
3. There are exceptions totherule, which seems to make the rule rather arbitrary. Unless these runs are set to private, I do not see them on TASVideosChannel.
I'd like to also point out I'm not saying this due to YouTube monetization or getting video views. In fact, I cannot even monetize Resident Evil 4, because Capcom claims copyright to some of the cutscenes, and I have actually received a strike on my account for my previous WIP for the Krauser knife cutscene (which is why the private link backup explained in #2 would be a good idea). I'm saying this because there seems to always be confusion about "who made what" when most people assume the uploader is the author. I don't want people thinking some guy named "TASVideosChannel" is the speedrunner, cause that belittles the 100s of hours I put into this.
EDIT:Another argument I have against this policy is that I began the run back in July 2011, a full year before this policy was intact.
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, how much health does the last boss have in the TAS? Maybe a broken butterfly may work.
3 shots from the Broken Butterfly, then a RL will kill him. I redid it and managed a 1:35:14, for an improvement of 9 seconds. I am currently encoding the video, and will have it up in the next day or so.
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jlun2 wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
I think it would be best if you don't skip the cutscene and credits at the end when you eventually submit it.
Does the cut-scene add to the final time?
The credits do not add to the game timer, but the cutscene where Leon and Ashley talk on the jetski does. I will allow the credits to play through when I submit.
And to the person who wants to make the encode: it would be awesome to see it using the widescreen hack to see more of the game environment, but when I enable the setting in Dolphin it desyncs right before the cabin fight. I think it may have something to do with how some enemy AI is affected if they are rendered on screen, so a widescreen encode may not be possible (but would be awesome)
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
I know there's a glitch where you can make the jet ski fly off with Leon just sitting there in thin air... other then that, the only thing missing is hacking into the video, Slippy from Star Fox in a window at the bottom and him telling you to do a Barrel Roll before you do them. THAT would be priceless!
Otherwise, this is awesome! Can't wait for the comment filled run to be published!!
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
To make Leon fly off the jet ski, have ditman active while getting on.
I don't know how such a video effect can be done, but I will definitely find out how and do it, cause that WOULD be priceless!
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jlun2 wrote:
Nice! When are you going to submit it?
The moment someone corrects me on my mistakes for these chapters and I fix them. :p
After that, soon. Anyone want to do the encode? I'll be putting up two encodes on my YouTube page, with and without annotations.
