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It's a fond memory that Yujin Mario series came in on nikovideo and prevailed among my friends (both boys & girls used to watch) in 2007. Those videos made me laugh at first sight.
This TAS is just incredible. I cannot tell what's happening almost all the time. I sometimes forget that this is SMW.
Voted yes!
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It tracks the life of our hero, Papas, over a large span of time
This phrase in the publication implies that Papas is the hero, but actually he is the hero's father. I think this should be rewritten.
Also, I manipulated luck in this game the most heavily of my runs, and all earlier DW/DQ games have this category. I think it's better to attach it to this movie for classification, (maybe "Heavy glitch abuse" as well).
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Been away this long due to some examinations. Thanks everyone for voting ;)
As for the number
Though I think it's not the matter, I prefer Arabic numbers. Just because older NES DW/DQ runs use Arabic ones. Otherwise some confusion will be caused in sorting.
As for the encode
The idea is originally conceived by Pirohiko. His FF3 TAS was a good example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jse1cmB82_U
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I think SMW has many features suitable for TASing, and you played it amazingly well.
The lag optimization was also incredible.
You perfectly beat the frame-rule. Yes vote!
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Took a hard time but I've managed to encode the movie.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-GyH3MSdiHmNGUwZThlNGItZmRiOC00MDZjLWIxMjYtNjkzMzZiOWQyZTI4
I'm feeling sorry that as this is a huge file (556MB), you may have to spare much time to download it.
Also, as stated before, I cannot upload it on youtube. So I would like you to upload it and make a link in the submission text instead of me.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
I'm going to use Touch-me's current encode for youtube during publishing.
I can make a singe part encode instead of you, with some explanations and memory display. Can I try? (Although, I cannot upload longer movies on youtube, due to a Japanese cellphone carrier! So I would like to ask you to upload if the encode have finished)
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eternaljwh wrote:
Odd that Buffy is double-hit-able when Vampire is not.
Reply to your previous post.
I think the double hit succeeded because Buffy located closely enough to the Sprite, who was running towards the wall.
If the Sprite is distant, the Boomerang's second attack never hits, I assume.
eternaljwh wrote:
The other possible bonus would be if you managed to get Girl to weapon-level 2 on boomerang so you could get more double-hits.
This may save many frames because she can move to anywhere while charging.
In my submitted TAS, I could not get the double hits in these battles.
*Doom's Wall (once, but it can be impossible)
*Vampire (once)
*Aegagroplion (twice)
*Hexas (once)
*Buffy (once)
*Dark Lich (once)
If I could get one double hit, I would have saved about 400 frames.
So, I will be able to save about 2400 to 2800 frames(400 * 6or7) if I use the glitch this way.
But there may be many problems that you have mentioned.
Also, killing more enemy will take much time.
I won't be sure until someone tries both strategy.
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I'm so glad that you watched my movie very carefully ;)
eternaljwh wrote:
dwarf village: I think you miss, when going to the item shop/elder's, entering a stair from a side. Is the time lost from stopping running more than the time gained?
Usually, entering from a side is faster, but this time not.
I've perfectly forgot to mention this; sprinting toward the stairs.
When you sprint to the stairs, 4 frames-rule is applied.
Sprinting at proper timing, you can sprint for longer distance.
This time, I could enter the stairs at the best timing as I pressed A button as fast as possible.
So I could earn further 4 frame sprinting (i.e 12 pixels (3 pixels per a frame when sprinting)).
But some moving part may not be fully optimized.
You might be aware of another optimization, which is hard to find in just watching the movie without actual playing.
eternaljwh wrote:
after underground palace:what does going into the [non-shortcut] cave do? Can't you use the Magic Rope from there? Is it faster?
If I return to the cave and use the Rope, I will return to the Dwarf Village.
The Magic Rope takes you to where you enter the dungeons.
eternaljwh wrote:
How much time could be gained by switching the weapon of Sprite to shorten the "beat up Gnome" scene? Boomerang seems like one of the worst choices. Or, similarly elsewhere for other things [similarly Girl hitting Phanna, Boy hitting Dyluck in Northtown ruins, but likely too short as only one strike unless other unlikely savings from weapon switch are found]
Even in the "beat up Gnome" scene, it is more than 100 frames slower if you switch the weapon (just switching, not including the time to return the previous weapon).
So far, Boomerang is the fastest weapon to beat the bosses quickly.
So I think this is the fastest.
eternaljwh wrote:
There seems to be no commentary in the submission text for Kilroy and ...Jabberwocky was it? The two-headed boss at Water Palace.
Sorry, I was tired of too much explanations.
If I briefly explain, I killed two bosses with critical luck manipulated glitched charge attack. (Though the manipulation was hard that I re-recorded about more than 2000 times per a boss)
eternaljwh wrote:
could Multi-equip axe to save time in Cave of Courage maybe?
You seem so wise, but I've already tried and found that is slower by about 400 frames.
Multi-equipment takes more time than expected.
eternaljwh wrote:
Would getting the Girl to do a charge-glitch too help? Or is there no good time to forge a third weapon?
I think this is the most controversial point.
At first, I thought that two characters are enough because many bosses have its invulnerable time.
I thought the characters could fully charge in the time.
Also, glitched charge attack is available for two players simultaneously, for the third character must be controlled by the player.
But ending the run, it is somewhat doubtful.
In fact, I am thinking that forging whip is slightly faster, because I found that bosses are vulnerable when they are acting some actions.
If I could fully manipulate the bosses, the whip might also be useful, but not sure.
eternaljwh wrote:
Why is Lunar Energy necessary? Is critical rate zero against Mana Beast without? Does it provide an attack power boost beyond that inherent to critical hits?
Because I think the double critical of Boomerang is very difficult without the spell.
The critical rate is only 5% and the timing of Boomerang's second hit is fixed.
Raising the number to the 2nd power, double critical rate is only 0.25% (actually, I can manipulate luck a bit more).
In actual fact, when I cast Lunar Energy twice in one glitched charge attack, the last glitched attack was very luckily double critical (though I could manipulate the second hit with another player's attack only once).
This is actually faster than casting Lunar Energy once per one glitched charge attack with luck manipulations.
eternaljwh wrote:
Subtitle errors?
I was too sleepy to check all of them.
The typo in the closing words was so embarrassing.
I cannot edit the youtube movie, but I will edit the spelling error in the submission text.
eternaljwh wrote:
Activating one of the cat-statues (to stick its tongue out) with a trailing character?
I just didn't know.
Possibly I can do that only with hex-editing, but I don't want to update the movie again and again.
eternaljwh wrote:
Luck-manipulating the centerfold to appear on one of the books?
Actually I tried, but it was difficult to do that without wasting time X(
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When gstick's previous run came to Nikovideo, many Japanese became enthusiastic about Maxim for his outstanding movement and distinctive voices. Nice improvement to the run which seemed perfect to everyone.
Yes vote! Looking forward to your next Maxim!
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Rayas wrote:
Quick question:
Why talking to the rebel girl in the south town of the Empire if you're going to walk past the guard behind the trees anyway?
Or is taking to her a switch to activate?
Mú wrote:
Because if you don't talk to her, you will lose time when you need to go in the golden tower, she won't give you the key at your first attempt, she will be talking about the secret code, so you have to go to golden city (talking to the old boy), then the rebel girl talking about the code, then back to golden city, finally back to the girl, and she gives you the key.
I wanted to say what Mú had said.
I tried some times to improve, but no ways were found.
sgrunt wrote:
Assuming that the encode goes well here, I am planning on replacing the submission with the desyncless one in the interest of consistency.
If anyone has a major problem with me doing so, let me know here.
Sorry for confusing everyone..
I asked DarkKobold to replace the file and he has already done.
The current submission (1 frame slower than the previous) will make no desynch at the final battle.
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KwyjiboPrime wrote:
To answer mklip's question: Flammie has 450 def, and he overcomes it using critical hits via Moon Energy
KwyjiboPrime wrote:
With regards to Atma's question, Touch-me commented on it in the submission text under "Skipping Map Event": Attack a rope pole and call Flammie, then you can skip the first event that will happen at the landing maps. I utilize this glitch to skip the barrier event at the entrance of Mana Fortress. You can enter the fortress as usual and beat Dark Rich and Mana Beast to save the world, without any Mana powers.
Thank you for answering instead of me! Totally what i want to say :) I forgot to explain or refer to them in the submission.
KwyjiboPrime wrote:
Touch, would it be better to cast the spell on everyone once, instead of twice? It would save time on the selection of the spell, no?
It may be so good, but sadly Moon Energy spell cannot target everyone, just individually.
Dwedit wrote:
Is it possible to enter the mana fortress by having that map load, soft-resetting, then loading the "frosty forest" save game? Or does that not work?
I tried some other ways to enter the Fortress in vain. If I use a soft-reset and load the data, I start from the sky near the Fortress, and automatically Flammie is called to go outside.
Dwedit wrote:
Also, it desynced for me at the last hit. Really weird, because whenever I select the Multitap in Snes9x, it prevents the Player 3 and 4 input menu items from being checked, and that went against a different warning in the TAS description.
mm... everyone meets the desynch. This movie to be entertainable, I would like to request an update which is 1 frame slower but with no final desynch. Please wait for the update.
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mklip2001 wrote:
I think I enabled Multitap and three joysticks, but I still got the desync at the very last hit. I'm not entirely sure what I did wrong there.
Did you check the box before the movie started? If so, I don't know the reason too.
Here's another smv which has no possibbility of desynchronization at the final battle, but 2 frames longer (length is 383395 frames).
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/188501680/SOM_candidate1.smv
And making this movie, I optimized and could save 1 more frame totally (length is 383392 frames). Here's this.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1144168809/SOM_candidate2.smv
I want to exchange submission for more optimized one, but I can't tell which one is better (desynchless 2 frames longer movie VS 1 frame improvement). So I want to hear someone. Please give advice to me.
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ElectroSpecter wrote:
How soon are we talking? I loaded the movie as fast as I could after opening the game and I still got this desynch.
I tried some times and in about 70 frames was OK (very few times it desynchs if I opend the movie file in 70 frames, though). Or, are you just re-opening the ROM file? I should have said that we should open the movie file right after opening SNES9x1.51 and open the ROM file. I have to rewrite the submission text X(
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Highness wrote:
Won't Dryad's powers be best at the mana beast?
I mean, to cast both sabres, in addition with the other magics, such as the lunar power,
1.Even if the hero's strength gets enhanced, the actual max damage he can deal is limited according to the calculations below.
[Strength] * ([Weapon charge level] / 2) = [Power] (Maximum 999)
[Power] - [Enemy defense] = [Damage]
Mana beast has 450 defense points. So unless it is a critical hit, the maximum damage is around 550. But a critical hit doubles this [Damage]. Using Lunar magic alone, the hero can deal 999 damage.
2.Using "weapon charge level glitch" (I always use this when fighting against bosses), the charge level increases by 1 per a frame. Without the power enhancing magics, the needed charge level to deal 999 damage (with a critical hit) is around 60. Even the strength gets doubled with the mana power or something, it can save only 30 frames per one attack, losing many frames by its graphical effect.
So I don't think the magics are useful, but still controversial.
Highness wrote:
and maybe the speed up thing with Gnome?
Speed up magic just enhances the evade & hit rate. Other status seem to be unchanged.
Darkkobold wrote:
One question - some times you walk out of the dwarf cave, other times you use the rope. Why the change?
It is simply because I cannot use the rope according to the game programs. The rope is available only when the players enter the dungeons through the entry points.
Anyway, thank you for watching;) I'll try the best!
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The damage glitch just allows me to charge weapon level to higher than 8 which is the limit in the glitchless playthrough. So the damage is limited. If there're ways to give more than 999 damage, the run would be faster. (You can see the charge level surge by watching a RAM 0x7EE01B.)
[quote mklip2001]There may also still be use for spells too... for instance, aren't Moon Energy and Lunar Boost really good spells for the final battle? [/quote]
The Moon Energy can be useful. Actually, I've used that spell in my previous run to beat Mana Beast quickly. Whether really faster or not is still controversial, for the graphical effect is very long.
But I didn't think of the Lunar Boost. Thank you for remiding me! I'll try.
(Oh, "equip" is similar to "furnish" in usage. Now I learned.)
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mklip2001: All of your questions are welcome to me :)
[quote mklip2001]* Is every boss fight going to have that quick death glitch? I think it makes the game more boring, but it also means you don't have to level up magic.[/quote]
I intend to have the glitch until the last battle, though the run may be a bit boring.
One reason: Even using that, a player can deal at most 999 damage at once. For example, it takes ten hits to defeat Mana Beast (HP 9990). Fighting against stronger bosses needs more strategies, luck manipulations, and optimizations. So it becomes more entertaining as story goes.
Another reason: If I don't use the glitch, I must try to cast magic continuously on and on to beat bosses quickly. It'll look more boring, I think.
[quote mklip2001]* Why is the Boomerang forged?[/quote]
To enable the Sprite to use the quick death (exactly "weapon level charge") glitch. This enables me to beat bosses even faster. The glitch is available when a player's weapon level is 2 or higher. And to level up to 2, the weapon also needs to be level 2. So I forged.
If you're asking why I 'chose' Boomerang, there's also reason.
Charged attack with Boomerang sometimes hits an enemy twice. It is the same to the glitched charged attack, which is more efficient than other weapons. So I chose Boomerang.
[quote mklip2001]* What do the power wrists do?[/quote]
The Power Wrist enhances the equipped (equipping? which is true?) player's strength by 5. If the Boy's power enhances, Tropicallo can be killed with only 6 swings. Otherwise needed 7 swings. And the glitched charged attack gets stronger. It is also true to the Sprite.
Those are my answers. I don't know well how to explain the unique words about games in English, like "attack" "hit" "charge" "level" etc. If what I've said is hard to understand, please excuse and ask me again. I'll try and I can study English :D
I got a desync at Tropicallo too in my last WIP. So I have fixed by Movie Editor, instead of losing some frames.
Though I fixed, it may desync when you play the movie for a few minutes and then restart it. The cause is that some RAMs varies when you restart the movie file, I don't know why. Anyway, if you play the movie as soon as you open the emulator, it may not desync. I recommend that you make a savestate when you want the movie to return to a certain point.
EDIT:
Yagamoth wrote:
Why don't you kill the plant in the Tropicallo fight? It should provide some experience aswell, right?
The plants with Tropicallo has no weapon experience. Few EXPs instead of losing 4 or 5 lag frames seem worthless. So I didn't kill them.
Yagamoth wrote:
Edit: One thing to note, you probably already got this: The Rope-Pole-Glitch should allow various skips. Though, the only one I can currently remember is the one in the Fire-Temple in the desert..
Thank you for your post, though I've already noticed. I think the glitch is also useful in the Ice Palace, the Darkness Palace, and so on.
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DarkKobold wrote:
Touch-me, how goes Secret of Mana?
My SOM run is only 1/4 finished. Someday (when my TAS has 50% finished or I find new glitch) I will upload my WIP. Then I would like to discuss it on the SNES forum.
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mklip2001 wrote:
I would like to request, though, that if you make a warpless run of this game, that you give them different names. I think wasting one frame to name the girl "B" would make things a lot clearer when you actually get to see the full plot of the game.
I regret to say but I am not planning to make a warpless run. That seems a labor. However, I think naming differently sometimes makes a TAS more enjoyable.
Nicos wrote:
mklip2001 wrote:
Regardless, very nice job, and Yes vote. One other question, though: why do you get the Sickle? You do most of your fighting with the sword anyway.
you need the sickle to cut the wines also it's a litle bit stronger that the basic sword...
Nicos is true. The Sickle is necessary to go to the first Warp point. Additionally, with the sword, the hero cannot give any damage to Walrus even level 5.