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Nope, the account that it was on was suspended for multiple third party claims lol. I remember what it involved, so when I get to that point I'll mess around with it.
Basically it was using that laser "launcher" object at a certain point. The result was being ejected while still in the docked animation, clipping through everything and not losing power (which makes sense, since power isn't consumed in that dock). Iunno if I can reproduce it or not, I haven't tried.
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Cruizer wrote:
VanillaCoke wrote:
I said it on YT, but glad to see you're back Cruizer xD. I probably won't pick your brain for anything until I get back to SC. I don't plan on redo-ing Jelly, just cutting what I had before and pasting it in.
Just on the topic of Jelly 1, what sort of time are you getting? Because i figured out how to get under 16 seconds just recently, although the how isn't that detalic. All i know, is that you need to take 3/4 of health off him in your first burst attack, and I don't know the specifics of actually dealing it, I just have blind luck do it for me |3
Anyway, I'll get back in the boss strats to help you out later on, I'm still a bit rusty, but i can pick it up once my memory starts to load :P
iirc, my old wip had jelly beaten sub 13. Haven't watched it in a long time and too tired to go look at the earlier posts xD.
I've been distracted from working on this, so don't worry about being rusty lol. I have just found the wonderful program that is PCSX2 0.9.8 a few weeks ago haha.
quick edit: I'm mainly concerned with boss fights where I can't stomp it out to death... which is most of them xD. That's where I'll definitely need some help.
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So I've been TASing this for the past week and I've gotta say that it's been awhile haha. Just learning the ropes again, then I'm going to start over on SM2. I'm going to try a route change and see how it fairs.
I said it on YT, but glad to see you're back Cruizer xD. I probably won't pick your brain for anything until I get back to SC. I don't plan on redo-ing Jelly, just cutting what I had before and pasting it in.
Edit
Zeupar wrote:
Which factors cause this? I assume wisp powers are one of them, but I would like to know if there are other. Could you list the acts where you have had trouble because of this? I think this would be something interesting to include in the submission text. I have been playing this game recently so I look forward to this TAS. Best of luck.
Well it's not anything crazy like with Excitebike's TAS. The biggest example I can give is Tropical Resort 2, where I perform the zipline glitch to gain a huge amount of speed. There is too much x-velo and speed during that whole bit and it took a long time to figure out a way to get through there without losing a lot of time.
But then I ran into another problem with the final product for TR2 in which I couldn't force the wall to not load as I went through that section too fast, and started the loading earlier (from my understanding. I used to be able to go through that section normally and force the wall to not load, although it's TAS only). I ended up finding a work-around by jumping the frame before launching off the ramp and was able to make it work. It's slower due to that one extra frame of decay is compounded up over the course of that section.
Example (not from run): 1024, 1024, 1024, 1016, 1008, 1000 would be the x-velo on four frames, getting lower each frame. Starting the decay earlier in say frame 2, would be 1024, 1024, 1016, 1008, 1000, 992. The numbers explain themselves.
Another example is skipping the balloon in TR1 (although this is to a much lesser degree). It's faster at first to just skip the first balloon, but doing anything after that is slower due to waiting for the x-velo and y-velo to drop down so you can proceed downward. Down + A and hitting the spikes is faster than the first method, but the best option is just taking the balloon down for a few frames, then jumping out.
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I've had a lot of personal problems, that I won't waste space divulging about here, over the past month. So there hasn't been any progress on this. About half of SM2 has been done, but I haven't worked on it since mid-july. Which sounds like it spells out death for this WIP, but I promise it's not. I was only doing bits and pieces from February through May, but I still picked it back up and worked on it once Summer started.
At the very least, I'll be doing bits and pieces until Winter vacation starts. I really want to have this submitted before the end of the year. More than likely it'll be done start of next year. I can understand why Rush and Rush Adventure have no completed runs. The amount of optimizations takes such a long time since almost any given section requires a lot of math to calculate averages and differences. Then that section just becomes the group of an overall bigger equation. Sometimes going faster in one section is slower in another, etc.
Anywho, I'll start working on this some more in the next week or so. I wish Cruizer would stop by again so I could pick his brain for some of the boss fights xD.
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Whomever designed the SM2's bomb and wall placement did a great job at preventing someone from skipping the burst wisp. Last WIP, I tried for a whole day to skip it, and today I've wasted 4 hours. It's impossible to build enough x-velo to completely skip the balloon, so you have to manage your way between the wall and the bomb (which is nearly impossible). You have to have enough y-velo to reach 1394 y-cord (lua value), but anything that reaches 1394 y-cord hits the bottom of the wall in the process. Colours is pretty generous with bumping you up to a platform, so you can be almost 2 off of a value and still make it.
I've managed to crack 1396, but hitting a high 1395 (like 1395.895) would be needed be brought up to the platform. I've tried every combination and coordinate I can think of to try and make it, but it's just impossible :(
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Did you even read what he linked? There is image of what Samus' sprite looks like when it has to be pressed for a frame <_<.
Samus's boost counter is tied to her running animation, specifically to the "magic frame" (), on both NTSC and PAL ROMs. Thus, pressing the dash button on only these check frames (while constantly moving forward) will give Samus her speed echoes — even though she's moving at near walking speed!
PAL: If forward is pressed from frame 0 and on, dash should be pressed on frames 20, 40, 60 and 70. On frame 70, both dash and down can be pressed together and Samus will charge her speed in preparation for a shinespark.
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SM1 - 50"60
Going to try and optimize one last part by boosting one frame later, giving me enough verticle height to make use of a full backwards airdash. At best, it'll end up saving a frame. It didn't. It was faster, but wasn't enough to save anything. I tried a little bit of manual bruteforcing to squeeze out some extra x-velo and reach it quicker, but it just wouldn't happen.
I'll edit the rest in once I'm finished in a half-hour or so. Then I'll update with dsm and youtube link later tonight or tomorrow. I'll definitely be saving my comments until tomorrow as there is a lot that I changed in running this level again. Biggest improvement is skipping the first burst section and take an alternate route leading to the same place. I also learned a lot about how burst works thanks to the lua script as I could read values last time in December for some reason (only happens on SM and AP).
The first hot-air balloon encountered is definitely the fastest way to go. In my first WIP and even this one prior to changing where the Burst capsule is attained (was going to grab the one behind jellybean waterfall), I would skip the balloon with an exactly placed stomp. However the hitstun wasted close to 20 frames when coupled with a lot of lag from numerous sources being generated from the hit (rings, blinking, stomp effect, boost effect). So not only was it slower, but there ended up being dropped inputs as well. So instead I took the balloon until I could manage to get under the ceiling where the spikes end, and then stomped. This saved 28 frames (42 ms).
Originally in this second WIP, the only reason I skipped the first burst section was that there is over a second wasted in the popcorn machine (can't be helped). That route is still the best route in real time, but this is a TAS! 119 frames (I went and optimized that section just to be on the safe side) are saved due to rail boosting and slope boosting from loops, higher x-velo cap and reaching 61440 y-velo faster.
So the only other burst section left in is optimized by making use of hitting the bomb-balloons. This was a huge pain the last time around, but the lua script indirectly made it much easier. I got really lucky using the first bomb to hit 61440 y-velo very quickly. The coordinates just happened to be right to hit it perfectly. The second one was a little tricker and I had to manipulate the explosion glitch just right in order to get an optimal boost with no time wasted setting it up.
The last big improvements came from making use of rail boosting that I didn't know during the first WIP. This makes it faster after the first balloon section to actually go backwards after the slope and rail boost than it is to just jump over the trick-rings.
The ending section before the jellys, I decided to make it a little more entertaining by not landing at all in that section. Hitting any kind of capsule (wisp or non) restores the ability to boost. So after using boost in midair once already, the capsule is hit to restore it and proceed not to land until stomping the jelly.. It's not any faster or slower, just purely for entertainment.
Everything else has either been mention or is just tiny optimizations adding up.
Edit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOgZblxlHREhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/478156125/Sonic%20Colors%20Test.dsm
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So apparently this guy on youtube found a glitch that makes burst (that's the flame wisp) last forever.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2AmoPbm4w
It seems really fish though. For one thing, the video cuts from being normal Sonic with the timer at 5+ minutes, then it goes to the glitch with infinite burst at 4'40 something. So I'm inclined to believe that this is just a AR code being used. In the off chance that it's not, then I made a comment to see what he can suggest he did to cause it.
In the chance that this is real, it wouldn't be used at all besides the cyan wisp. With every other wisp, they're used to access a route and anything leftover is really wanted (Especially true with Void and Burst, void is waaay too slow).
There also a glitch involving the laser I've seen a video of that completely clips though the whole level. When I get to AP, I'll figure out how to perform it and hopefully it will interact with the capsule to end the level. That's a ways away though :P
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Change of route in SM1, so I had to start over from about 10 seconds in. Instead of grabbing the burst wisp behind the jellybelly dispenser, I instead decided to just grab it regularly after the gumball rocket. I haven't finished optimizing the gumball rocket portion, so I'm not sure of the frame difference yet. So far it seems to be faster since it's actually on the way, rather than requiring backtracking (costed 96 frames). Then skipping the gumball rocket is definitely faster, and I haven't calculated the difference yet. Instead, I'm doing this backwards and finishing the new route change, then I'll find the difference.
I took the gumball rocket route last time as it was completely required. Saved 5 frames in comparison to the last time due to slope slide boosting, better manuvering and airdashing for one frame before mid-air boosting.
Probably won't post any updates until SM1 is done. If this route is faster, I'll have to finish about half the level. If not, then it'll be complete.
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I'm voting no for the above mentioned reasons. You can't really time something like a fighting game since a TAS of them would boil down to doing one or two combos the whole time. So then it must aim for entertainment.
That being said, I wasn't entertained by this much at all. Maybe if I hadn't seen the already published run (and even TASes performed of this game that weren't even submitted to this site that are equally impressive) then that might be different. In comparison to those, this is very underwhelming.
Check out http://tasvideos.org/1333M.html and then compare it with your own. That run is so diverse and makes use of impossible combos in real-time. It shows completely gamebreaking glitches at some points.
Reptile 1 was the only highlight imo, and it quickly lost it's charm.
Seems like you just jumped into making a TAS because of the lack of human limitations. Then you let that allure make itself into a run and here's the product. Voting no, but you can always improve it and come back.
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Any chance of you picking this back up Sonikkustar? I'm thinking about taking a break from SC and working on this. The additional x-velo gained from backwards airdashing might be a little tricker to optimize, but I imagine that it would be a bit easier due to lack of mid-air boost & wisps section which are a pain to optimize themselves xD.
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This was seriously amazing. I didn't watch the other Japanese TAS that stole your inputs because I knew this would be better. Worth it. I'm almost curious to go watch it now just to see it destroyed lol.
Also interesting to note is that it's almost like you finished this game up just in time so that you could play OOT 3DS.. and proceeded to sequence break it lol.
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Hrm, I'm not sure why it desynced like that. I'm back on track for TASing and I wanna see if it desyncs when I upload my .dsm with SM1. I'll have that uploaded on Monday sometime (gonna be good about this now or else it'll take me until December to finish at this rate LOL).
Went back and altered a part with the boost wisp capsule that has saved an extra frame.
In the meantime tonight, I'm going to download that .dsm I uploaded and see if it syncs <_<
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Nearly finished with SM1. I should have it finished by tuesday. I'm taking today and tomorrow off to play OOT 3DS.
Plans for the rest of June:
I need to throughly research route changes in SM2. In my previous WIP, I didn't know all the different tricks and glitches that I know now. I'm going to be looking for railing to abuse, and there aren't any ziplines in the rest of the game iirc (Tropical Resort gimmick, like Jello is the gimmick for Sweet Mountain, etc etc).
I'm going to copy + paste the captain jelly fight from my old WIP.
Then that'll put me into the month of July. That's the plan for now.
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I'm still doing SM1. Decided to restart and improve a part where A and B inputs would be dropped. About halfway through the level.
Doing these levels takes a lot longer with all the tricks I know >_<. Anyways, as soon as SM1 is done, I'll upload the .dsm and upload the video to YT.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1213309895/Sonic%20Colors%20Test.dsm
Sorry it's been almost a week, I was planning on uploading this later on last Saturday but I've been slacking off this week haha (Been playing DNF).
So from my understanding of how this zipline glitch works, the first time it takes the difference of your x-velocity when boosting backwards and adds the difference from it and your x-velocity the next frame, then frame after that it makes that value into speed.
So for example (this isn't the exact figures from the movie), 41952 is the value that boosting sets your x-velocity when going right. Boosting left makes it temporarily -41952. The difference is 98304. Add that to the speed value of 41952. Adding that with 98304 makes the value 140256. That becomes the new value for speed. When performing the glitch a second time, the difference is added to the speed value again. So 140256 + 98304 = 238560.
Formula: (X + -Y) + Z = S
X represents x-velo right
Y represents x-velo when boosting left
Z represents speed
S represents New speed
The glitch can't be used right after getting on a zipline. Y-velo has to be 0 and depending on the x-velo prior to getting on the zipline, it takes 1-3 frames until it becomes 0.
Last note I'd like to add is that this formula completely break when hitting a zipline with an excess x-velocity (65792 for example). The results are completely different and there's a LESS of a boost in the speed value.
Nitsuja gave a great description of how speed and x-velocity works. Basically Speed value is possible speed. If it is higher than x-velocity, then upon landing x-velocity will become whatever Speed's value is. X-velocity is "Actual speed" and that is how fast you're moving each frame. So that's why moving so fast doesn't occur until after landing from the zipline.
The reason I didn't building up any extra speed, or even actually use, the second zipline is for a plethora of reasons. For one, x-velocity goes back down to regular values of 41952 (boost) or 40960 (non-boost). Too much time is lost setting it up. A lot of time is lost due to having to having to use the launch at the end of the zipline to get the launch. There's waaay too much speed (There's an oxymoron for a Sonic game) is gained going onto the rail. It makes it impossible to land atop the loop, wasting more time. It's still possible to glitch the breakable wall into not loading. However x-velocity has to be dropped down quickly in order to make it under the wall with spikes on top of it. Then to top it all off, all the extra speed and x-velo is lost after reaching the loop. Overall it's not worth using the second zipline at all.
Incase anyone is wondering, the ziplines aren't worth doing this glitch on Tropical Resort 1 for a big reason. Every area where there is a zipline, there is something that makes the boost in speed lost shortly after. There is one of those walls that transports your downward (the mouth thing) at the first zipline in the level. Then for the second zipline, homing attacking up to the second zipline loses all of the gained speed. Going down early would be a possibility if it weren't for the need to hit ground to get x-velo to copy speed's value. Using it on the third zipline actually has two reasons. The curved rail forces x-velo down, losing all of the extra speed. The other big reason is that even if you skip the rail until it's evened out again, the breakable walls lose all of the speed+x-velo.
Anyways, I'm going to spend today trying to sync up the rest of the run with this improvement.
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Why don't you try playing through the game normally on 0.9.7 and see if it still messes up. That way you know if fixing the desyncs are a possibility or not.
Btw, this was pretty awesome.
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Finished with a time of '37"32. Uploading to YouTube now. I'm too tired to upload the .dsm tonight, but I certainly will tomorrow.
Overall, that's a '5"25 second improvement. I'll also explain the mechanics (from my understanding and execution) behind the zipline glitch tomorrow. You'd think going this fast would of lead to the level being easier or shorter to complete, but it actually took the longest. It was refreshing taking two different route changes though :D.
Link to video
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Going to take a little longer due to an optimization I made in the second route change. In the end, the optimization is 36 frames faster than it was last night. There is only one more part that I'm going to test and then the rest of the level is pretty much going to be the same as before, so I can "copy" the inputs.
Will have this new version of TR2 completed before I go to sleep, about 2/3's done with the level as of right now. I'll edit in the YouTube upload after I finish.
), on both NTSC and PAL ROMs. Thus, pressing the dash button on only these check frames (while constantly moving forward) will give Samus her speed echoes — even though she's moving at near walking speed! PAL: If forward is pressed from frame 0 and on, dash should be pressed on frames 20, 40, 60 and 70. On frame 70, both dash and down can be pressed together and Samus will charge her speed in preparation for a shinespark.