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CoolHandMike wrote:
Video shows some cool looking combos, but no explanations of exactly how they are done. No explanation for the Kia instant kill trick mentioned above either.
Many combo videos don’t need to, but they usually aren’t tailored to this community. There is one core trick to my combos starting at [2:10] in the video.
It’s possible to cancel normal moves into special moves (like with most fighters), but you can only cancel some moves with some specials… some of the time. The first three weeks were spent figuring out these frustrating nuances. The actually useful part of this is if you cancel into a move you don’t have the mana for then you just cancel into the neutral stance. From there you can perform another move and cancel it again ad infinitum. There is only a 2-frame window to perform this cancel, so all of those super quick processions of hits are 15-20 frame perfect inputs in a row. You can also dash after reverting back to neutral stance, which is how I kept pace with all of the launching or knockback moves I did.
The instant kill on bosses relies on another 2-frame window. Like in many fighting games there is an anti-combo mechanic that causes a character to fall faster and faster while being combo’d in the air. So after a few hits (when your attacks no longer pop them up even a little bit) you let them fall really close to the ground and hit them again. This will cause their character to snap to a vertical position, and their feet will be below the stage line so they just keep falling. In a couple instances this ended the boss fight immediately. This led to some mildly quirky behavior in other levels, but nothing really worth expanding on here.
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Do you just need help with a couple TAS combos, or do you need help with the whole video?
-EDIT- I just re-read the OP. A collab like this should be do-able. I have more questions, but you can reach out to me on discord (same username)
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SuperSqank wrote:
9:24 It's only a few frames or so but the problem in that situation is that if you are walking or jumping, you get hit long before the Troll does. Crouching allows you to avoid taking damage from the troll for much longer. In a RTA run, we get a damage boost of the stone in that section, which is faster. The reason I didn't do that in the TAS is because the damage boosts I did earlier in the level save more time and you don't have any more health to do more damage boosts.
We’re getting closer, lol. What I’m saying is to simply stay crouched while the ogre is dying. It looks like you have about 10 frames you can spend waiting before the rock comes back to hurt you. Hopefully the ogre’s hit box will go away fast enough that you can continue past without wasting a bunch of time with that extra jump.
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SuperSqank wrote:
7:56: you can't pick up the key if you are too far away from it while in the picking up animation. You can't drop off a ledge and pick up a key at the same time. I did try sing dropping off that ledge but it actually ended up being a frame slower. Pip dropping is faster and with the Pip section skip at the end of the level I talked about earlier, it would be the way to go. I just didn't do it in this the WIP as Pip was needed in the final section but I'll see if I can implement it in the final run.
9:24: we crouch as that allows you to go under the troll. Walking gets you killed very quickly, same with jumping. Giselle has a weirdly large hurtbox, making enemies more annoying to avoid than they should be. It is not possible to jump over the swinging rock, deceptively big hitbox.
So at 7:56 I mean to simply hold left after you fall off the edge so that you don't grab the pole.
At 9:24 What I'm really asking is, "How long does it take once the ogre gets hit before you can walk past it without taking damage?
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Looks solid for a first tas. I've got some questions, though:
0:37 and 8:13 - Why can't you damage boost or sing your way past the guy at the ledge?
7:56 - After getting the key can you just fall to the left to avoid grabbing the pole and then moving right?
9:24 - It looks like you can maybe wait about 10 frames for the ogre to fall down instead of jumping. Does it take longer than that before you can run past him without him damaging you? Also is it possible to jump over the swinging rock at its lowest point?
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Link to video
Got an extra 8 hits using my improved knowledge of the lava arc hit boxes and making sure I hit all the lava mounds.
Now it's time for the real grind to get up to 999 points.
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{Obsoleted 425 Hit video}
With DTC 11 finally being over I could get back to this game. I learned partway through the level that the lava arc's hitbox is just a single point on the surface and in no way follows the actual animation. The lava mounds also have a hitbox that can only be shot once. I missed one in the beginning before I realized this, and I'm tempted to take another pass at this level, but I definitely need to take some time away. On a more positive note, I once again beat the old tas by so much that Solar (and not Sector X) is now part of the optimal high score route even without infinites.
Now for the 999! I did some testing and much to my delight I can get 8 hits on the lava arc every boss cycle. Each cycle takes 40.5 seconds to complete, but if you destroy the left arm it reduces the time to 33.3 seconds since he does 2 less moves. This strategy (combined with my much higher starting score) will bring the boss fight to a mere 40 minutes.
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I sent a holiday greeting to a very Pagan friend which reads, “God jul oh gadt nytt år!” It translates to “Good Yule and a good New Year!” In response she sent me this
Edit - Nvm
I’ve tried Nordic to English and Icelandic to English, but neither seem to work. I then noticed that the first two words are distinctly Merry Christmas, but the rest of the message doesn’t look like anything I know.
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Team Name - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly + some 4th Guy
The team's doing great! Morale is surprisingly high given how confident we are of getting last. (Maybe we'll even complete the game).
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Here’s an updated run of Katina
Link to video
“That’s a lot of hits!”, you might say, and you’re right! In fact, this score plus the new high score on Meteo means that the optimal high score route is now completely different from my published run. But it can always be better lol. At the very end even though I get the hatches to open before the core appears there are no enemies that come out : (
The only guess at this point is that the enemies have to actually start spawning before the core would actually appear. In order to try this out I would have to completely redo this level… again… and there are in fact limits to my perseverance.
I’ve been able to take a good break with the DTC contest, so the willpower to start over might come through, but that aside, I’m stuck between two options: I can either take Sector X for 397 into Macbeth 319 or I can take Solar 999 into MacBeth 319. The problem is that a run using Solar 999 would take over 2 hours to complete whereas the Sector X route would be 50 minutes (the same as the current published time). I would love to do both of these routes, but it guarantees that I have to redo all of Venom 2 because of RNG (and that’s assuming both MacBeth AND Area 6 somehow line up).
I’m currently working on the Solar route which is a nightmare since I can’t seem to pin down exactly where the lava arc’s hit box is. I need to get like 80 points before the first enemy appears :/
It has been discussed that my original submission would be more entertaining for a GDQ event since it uses the hard route Versus the new Meteo and Katina route.
With that in mind I am going for the absolute maximum score… So 2 hour video here we go 😅
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Are you looking for console verifiable material or just any sync-stable runs? Seeing that you’re having issues with SNES runs makes it difficult to know what a good game choice could be.
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What about movies that only have graphical differences when a glitch is used? Should there be two movies published side by side where one has the character moonwalking and the other doesn't even though there's zero difference in the final time?
Should we define glitchless to only include glitches that would save time?
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DrD2k9 wrote:
The problem with this perspective is the entertainment requirement for Alternative Class. The entertainment requirement could prevent a solid “Glitchless” run from being published (even if it’s drastically different than the glitched run) simply because it doesn’t get enough entertainment votes. This is most likely to happen with lesser known games/systems; and it would effectively prevent a good “Glitchless” run from being publishable even if it’s otherwise acceptable.
I did forget about entertainment as part of Alternative, but there would still be Playground for these runs.
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The current Standard category is a great pillar of stability for the site: Any%, 100%, and Max score are common between most every game out there. I don’t think Glitchless is a common enough category as it only arises after a game gets completely destroyed by one (or many) glitches and exploits.
Alternative is designed to capture all the rest. This may lead to Alternative becoming bigger than Standard in an extreme case, but that in and of itself shouldn’t be a problem. The extra runs are still being published to the site which is the most important part of inclusion.
