Joined: 7/26/2004
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I just watched last submission of Aria of Sorrow "All souls" and came up with an idela for a new category on these kind of platformer: "Killer mode" or "Bloodfest mode". It would be the opposite to pacifist mode, and could be defined as killing every foe as possible, with a certain restraint to keep the progress of the run, e.g. kill every enemy loaded afeter entering a room, or everyone that shows off on the screen (ignoring loaded ones that don't show off, considering the game has no respawns) etc.
Do you think this category is way too arbitrary to implement?
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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That was really nice to watch.
Too bad the password algorithm can't hold the info of the Zero Saber independently of the 8 Mavericks defeated, since the passwords generated after obtaining it seem to be invalid. It would be great to start a run from a cracked password which gives you the Saber at beforehand, so it could be used in all 8 stages.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Great job, Yes vote. It would be sweet to watch a 100% run (Kills + Secrets + Treasures + Hidden Level), I think the entertainment value would increase significantly.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 90
Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
HappyLee wrote:
Besides, it's not easy to define "unique" itself, for the basement in 1-1 and 7-1 is actually the very same basement, and perhaps no one can remember exactly which of the coins have been gotten in that run, even if he's familiar with the map.
Well, it's the very same principle that made it possible for you to "count" the number of coins of the game as a total of 1225. :)
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 90
Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
HappyLee wrote:
When I found the loops in 4-2 and 6-2, which are probably the only 2 supernatural loops in this game besides " -1", I immediately thought: how cool to see them demonstrated in a TAS! And the maximum coins TAS makes the perfect and perhaps only choice.
Now all of it makes sense, and I tottaly agree that's really cool to see these on an elaborated TAS.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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andrewg wrote:
By removing the loops, you'd have to change the main route, and so it's not an option unless the goal itself is changed: (1 life, Most coins, all stages, no loops) vs. (1 life, most coins)
Yeah, but I'd not consider "all stages" as an extra condition for goal change, since it's the natural consequence for the "no loops" condition.
I also do not see any problems with it; this site had very many other publications using planty of arbitrary conditions, like "bad ending", "no Zero parts", "pacifist", "no running" and so.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
marzojr wrote:
Zakatos wrote:
The only real extra feature I see that justifies que existence of this TAS is Doomsday Zone (which is cool but it's a really small price), since the total time for its completion is longer than the No Emeralds run, with both Sonic & Tails. Is there any major gain on individual levels? If there isn't, it's no worth watching. A comparative table would help.
Are you really giving such a definitive opinion on the run without watching? Are you really going to disregard years of work on my part as well question as the competence of the judges and publishers of TASVideos in the process?
That is rude. Very rude.
Thanks for the comparison table, that's what I wanted ;)
No, I'm not giving a definitive opinion without watching. Why did you think so? What on Earth has been "definitive" on what I told above? I told "The only feature I see..." (but now I see further :D ) and made a conditional conclusion "If there isn't...". Anyway, sorry for misinterpretations.
Now I'm gonna watching, I have a good reason to do so. :)
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
The only real extra feature I see that justifies que existence of this TAS is Doomsday Zone (which is cool but it's a really small price), since the total time for its completion is longer than the No Emeralds run, with both Sonic & Tails. Is there any major gain on individual levels? If there isn't, it's no worth watching. A comparative table would help.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
TASVideoAgent wrote:
I still thought that there could be a better goal, as there are obviously some areas went unvisited (of course, the old TAS didn't visit all the areas either). What goal would take me to the Forbidden Library? The Castle Center? The best idea me or arukAdo could come up with was one of every item in the game, but after debating with myself I realized this would get quite repetitive quite fast, especially since I wouldn't even be using almost any of the items I got, instead just using only the same things I used in this submission.
How about 100% Bestiary? THIS would lead you to all areas, without being preposterously lenghty or boring.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Nach wrote:
Not quite, you can play the second quest of SMB1, which currently we do not have any TAS of.
Now the above made more sense when the run was ~10 minutes long. Now that we're below 9 minutes, there isn't enough time to complete SMB1 twice.
I also thought about second quests of SMB1 and Lost Levels, it seems fairly fitting for me to be done. What about a warpless (or glitchless) quad-run, exploring not only the second quests, but also other interesting features of every game, like: the vine-cloud bonus stages on SMB1&LL, winning the slot machine on SMB2, the 2-player mini-games on SMB3? Since this is considered a "Demonstration" above all, showing the maximum of each game would be great. Or am I just dreaming too high?
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Great job! My only complaint is that Mario is never picked up in SMB2, so we can't actually see 4 Marios altogether on-screen.
Also, a word about finishing at the fastest time as top achievement: on this category, it seems pretty ambuguous, because it could be related to finish one of the games on the first time (and that effort affetcs the performance of the other 3 games, so in theory there's always a tradeoff) or the fastest time to finish all of them. Personally I still feel the best top achievement is finish all games at the same time. By the way, the perfect complete of this, which would be truly amazing, would be stop inputs when all four games are still unfinished, but I think this is utterly hard to perform.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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I agree with most viewers' point that the "almost-zip" strategy used in SBZ2 and SBZ3 should be kept aside. The author has, in my view, overused the concept of "arbitrarity", as if any breaking of the technical rules standed for arbitrary and, thus, can't be considered. However it's already a big tradition at TASVideos to break some specific given rules to add entertainment on the movie. Was the skipping of the two shortcuts so arbitrary, no movie could have "speed-enterteinment tradeoffs". Sometimes I'm very crictical about an author's choice of these tradeoffs, but it's a valid concept.
I repeat, I don't see any arbirarity on the author's decision to do concessions in favor of entertainment value. His rules, his freedom to break them. An, on that particular case, the vox populi indicates it should increase the entertainment value, or simply avoid frustrations by the and of the movie.
Also, someone has made this pertinent observation: if this kind of overlapping, even if considered glitchless, is allowed, more of them can be found out, and, if used, will ruin the purpose of the run, which is to show what could be the programmers' indended route.
I think SBZ2 and SB3 should be remade, in spite of the given tradeoffs.
I'm not voting yet.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Control jumps independently is a possible choice, but IMHO it spoils all the entertainment value from syncronizing both Marios. Doing the run without that would simply appear as watching two independent TASes at the same time.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Or, in exchange, use original SMAS (blue title screen) together with SMAS+SMW (orange title screen), when you enter the menu press left, on each one you'll choose the correct game. This seems preferable, as it starts both games at the same time. =)
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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I watched both Mister's SMW and Lord Tom and Mitjitsu's SMB3 runs simultaneously to have a basis and it seems perfectly feasible. To compare some points, take Yoshi's Island 1 & World 1-2, in SMW Mario can manage to move most of the time holding and releasing the shell or holding nothing at all. YI2 and W1 Fortress are both pretty straight forward. Iggy's Castle conveniently has an auto-scroll section that took most part of W8's first Tank, which is also an auto-scroller. It would be amazing to see Mario collecting 1-ups and avoiding the crushers at the same time. =)
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 90
Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
I don't know if this was already proposed here, but since the time we began to have "one-input-for-more than-one-game-completude" TAS, I always had in mind a TAS finishing both SMB3 (All-Stars Version, for this matter) and SMW (original game or the All-Stars+SMW version). This choice is based not only on the fact both are classic and amazing games, but also because the time completude for them is very very next (approx. 10:26 for both current releases).
I'm not a TASer, my first (and hopefully only) TAS was a total failure, I prefer just watch the good work. So, shall anyone try on this?
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 90
Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
[quote="aldenActually, there's not. But there should be :P[/quote]
Oh, I read on the description it was an improvement, so I supposed it was published, not rejected or cancelled. :P
One more thing, althought FODA says this game is easy enough, I think a standard (non-pacifist) run should also be made.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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AnS wrote:
The Japanese version of the game is called "Kamen no Ninja - Hanamaru", and instead of pizza contests there are quite reasonable battle sequences - depending on selected card and magic scrolls (collected at platformer levels) the character can cast lighting, throw shuriken and so on.
I was just wondering why the f* the pizzas are given by scrolls, so this explains a lot of things LOL.
Well, I'm voting yes since there's already a published TAS of this game and category and this one is an improvment. Otherwise I'd probably vote meh.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
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It's strange to see a first run of a Castlevania game like this. I would had preferred to se a warpless run, but this one's amazing nonetheless. The action and boring parts don't match very well, but I guess it's just bad luck, so I'm voting yes.
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 90
Location: Brazil, Sao Paulo, Campinas
Warp wrote:
Omega wrote:
The question being posed here is if this run, being so different in concept than the old one, warrants being placed in a category of its own. If the answer is yes, there's no need for it to obsolete the old run (since it's in a different category). It's not necessarily a quality issue in the first place.
OTOH it wouldn't be the first time a run in a different category "obsoletes" an existing run. I think it happened with LoZ:OoT.
(But as I have been saying, these things should really be estimated on a per-game basis. Not all rules can be applied to all games.)
It's the same case of Castlevania CotM, isn't it?
As long as I thought, both CotM and LttP maintained 2 versions of runs based on the "skip-a-lot" glitch. It's rather subjective and game-specific, but I think it's perfectly accepted on those cases. Games whose prior run differs signifficantly from the new one, in terms of technics AND visible progress, should deserve a new category. Of course, this should apply only on some few cases where BOTH progress and techical features are highly different)
The eyes of a machine are wonderful, but there's nothing like the the eyes of the heart – Old Cid, Cybercop