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adelikat's TAS showed that you can trade (I'm assuming with Ollie, who gives away money like free candy), select No, and once the other player selects
Saying no works on any CPU player. Combined with the ability to mortgage after your opponent agrees to a deal really breaks the game.
I just want to say I really like this TAS but I don't think it should obsolete the fastest completion movie. We could go on and on about whether completing the game the quickest, or use the least number of input frames is superior, but ideally we would just put them side by side.
Works for me—but I believe the server was updated between your post and now.
It is fixed in a sense. There was a submisison that was duplicated and somehow one didn't have the wiki markup. Data has been cleaned up. However, maybe the rss feed could be resiliant to this scenario in the future. Then again, this should never happen and we should ensure that in the future.
Regardless, it isn't happening now :)
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It was Gradius, it was fast, and it was entertaining! Thank you for this submission, I really enjoyed it.
My only complaint is the game is a bit long so the ideas start to drag out, but it is still an easy yes vote from me.
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Unfortunately I don't know the exact math. In the TAS, anything that can happen can be manipulated to happen so I was concerned with if it could happen. I was also concerned with approximately how likely it was so I could have an idea of how many delay frames I might expect to get. Odds were a secondary concern.
If you want to try to reverse engineer the math, you can find all my scripts and understanding of the RAM here
Specifically these ram addresses
They show that there are 8 battle slots that are rolled at the beginning of the round. Once set, they stay that way for the entirety of the round. Agility of the characters/enemies absolutely is a factor. It's possible the enemies have other factors that force some odds.
The way I tested what was possible was by getting to a specific point with a savestate, stopping my movie, setting up and running this
I'd be happy to work with you on how to use this script.
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Randomno wrote:
I wasn't 100% sure the correct rejection region here. I settled on "Goal" but if there is another one we use for this type of situation, I am happy to change it.
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I made a quick WIP User movie #638314642955943270 that replicates the level 14 strategy in the youtube video, and it comes out to 04:38.95. This confirms that this game can be manipulated at both harder difficulty and faster than this submission
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negative_seven wrote:
Interestingly, this submission is old enough to feature this now-incorrect comment:
Submission text wrote:
Furthermore, so far, nobody in the world has been able to write a computer program that plays Go better than an average club player.
There is this completion of level 14 (as opposed to the level 10 chosen by Bisqwit):
Link to video
It is slower than Bisqwit's run, but not by much - possibly faster if you were to discount menuing and thinking time. Although it is played on some English-language version, which could conceivably have a different AI.
Aww, shoot, I did t find this video. So level 10 isn’t hardest difficulty? Is 14 the max?
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The movie has literally no TAS related entertainment value. However, I’m not sure what vault rules it violated on its 2nd rejection, but regardless, I think this meets all current rule requirements, thoughts?
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I unrejected this submission, because we allow board games now and this is a good TAS for this game. It's been a long time, so I looked, and current human speedruns are 11 minutes, and I could not find a TAS that has improved this submission. As far as I can find, it still beats all known records.
Looking for some feedback, thoughts?
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Bigbass wrote:
Thanks Randomno for compiling these lists. Worth noting however that these changes can only be performed by judges or other staff. Editors cannot modify submissions (except for catalog changes).
Some of these issues, like wrong judges, even staff can't do. They are data issues from migrating the old (and bad) data. I'll fix them direclty in the database
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Dang, didn't notice this one during the festivities, thanks for the submission. Unfortunately, I think we have officially gone too far with this gag. Fortunately, I live for going too far with gags.
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User movie #638148478993374149
Another update, got through Chapter 4, and am up to the first encounter of Chapter 5 (with the 2 Liclicks).
Improvements in Chapter 4:
- Getting the gunpowder jar then Orin, this way the death warp that needs to kill off 2 characters is with the more powerful enemies, which saves an action
- Better luck manipulation in the level ups, I get no vitality/hp in every level
- Transition lag manipulation, particularly in the ending scene of sailing to Endor, a surprising amount of frames were found just in a scripted cut scene
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User movie #638144270152713770
Chapter 3 done! This was the major blocker that stopped my progress years ago, and the last of the super incredibly unlikely manips. I get the 3 max armor offers without declining a single one, which saves some seconds, but the odds of this are about 1 in a million or more. I'm 2475 frames ahead of the published movie with about 600 because I end 1 level ahead but will still end up on the same final level. The strat here is to get a 2nd metal slime so that I have more strength for the drop encounters and not need to do critical hits. The experience works out that it will not cost another level (but 3rd metal slime would have), so this will be realized as saving by the end of the TAS
I'm officially optimistic about this TAS and super motivated to keep going! The worst is behind me at this point
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So I managed to finish a redo of Chapter 1: User movie #638117571365360120
It is 227 frames faster, about 180 from staying at the inn. I also got an even more absurd level up. About 10 million bot attempts went into the level ups at the end of this chapter.
Other frames were scavanged from screen transitions. More and more I am finding that to truly optimize this game, I have to do more and more precise bots that bot larger chunks of the game. At this point, almost nothing is done by hand anymore.
The good news is the most unlikely events of the whole TAS are done. Bad news is that there is stil an awful lot to do, and the Chapter 2 boss fight is also absurdly unlikely, will probably be a few million bot attempts as well.
Finishing this TAS will be a long journey, yeesh
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Wow, nice improvements! I really enjoyed watching this, I thought the use of the hiding spots for a position boost was clever. I can't believe how quickly you were able to glitch through some of those barriers too.
Yes vote from me.
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FractalFusion wrote:
In case you need to do any testing on the hardest difficulty (the CPU take a really long time sometimes), you can use my form-based Lua script to help with this. I used it to make a (not very useful) Stockfish vs Battle Chess TAS (in my userfiles somewhere). Note that Stockfish is non-deterministic so other attempts at using Stockfish to beat Battle Chess may differ.
Also QuickNES is reasonably accurate for this game. The CPU thinking time is virtually the same and the only difference is NesHawk is slightly faster on some screen transitions (at the beginning of the game, and also when using capture animations). So you can optimize it on QuickNES and then make the final movie on NesHawk. Although probably everyone uses QuickNES anyway.
Yeah, QuickNES is what I used to refine strategies and NESHawk once I knew what I wanted to do.
I'm not sure how interesting a non-glitched run is, as it doesn't do much to set it apart from any other chess game. But I would be curious what you come up with.
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User movie #638051848574916873
I improved this run. It is 684 frames faster at the fastest crossing of the finish line of the final race.
I think early input end is fun and interesting here so I am going for that, manipulating an invulnerability can greatly shorten input, I'll work on that too. Not sure which would be preferred for submission.
I'll submit once I have that worked out and an encode, might be a few days
